The Omniframe Revealed

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Pandagnome

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The omniframe is cool maybe there will be variations of the omniframe?
with this as the prototype eventually discovering better or improved mech
parts or actual exoskeletons frame to build the mech of our playstyle??

I wonder if mechs would be effected by a certain character class for example someone
that plays a medic would have a mech with improved regeneration and healing capabilities
as opposed to heavy armor and heavy damage etc
 
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Sandsnake

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Lol - it occurs all the time? Wow, incredible ground breaking news. So, link me to the peer reviewed reports and documentation that you claim to exist. That of which, 100%, without a doubt, proves that time travel is possible, for both directions.

Oh, and if the reports mention "General Relativity", do not bother posting it, as you've then already proven my point.

Waiting.
http://journals.aps.org/prd/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevD.84.025007
scholar.google.com is a great resource. Please try to actually do some research before spouting off
 
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Dremor

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Uhh yes you are, you're in a sci-fi game. There's mechs... Suspending disbelief means to let things go because they are not 100% reality, to not be so critical.....
Case in point, bikini armor on females. It's not meant to be realistic, you suspend your disbelief of it and assume she's fully armored just because.

That's where you lose it. It's just a mech, it's not supposed to be 100% engineered realistic approach. Just chalk it up to "strong futuristic materials" and move on.... [...]
No. Just No. This is the very difference between Science-Fiction and Science-Fantasy universes. Science-fiction need to be believable, but not Science-Fantasy. In a science fiction universe, you cannot use science like if it was magic. See the difference between Startrek and Starwars. The first is a Science-Fiction universe, where all the marvellous technologies are made to look like possible. In another hand, Starwars, a Science-Fantasy universe, don't try to explain how things are made. The force doesn't need to be explained. All what they ask the viewer is to believe. And when they tried to explain it, it backslashed.

An open-frame design could have been a good enough design for a Science-Fantasy universe (we see similar design in some animes), but it is hardly believable for a Science-Fiction universe.

You just agreed with me, it's for gameplay sake. Just like the mechs gonna have a forcefield/shield protecting the player in the middle. Exact same thing.
Having the character apparent is 100% visual design. There is no gameplay requirement to have him visible.

That means there is zero customization of the character happening, which is the entire point you're ignoring. It's designed that way to show off your character inside.

That's just another standard mech with zero personality. I can play that in many other games If I just want a standard mech.

Yeah you don't really need that head there, but the discussion is about the forcefield/shield area.
In contrary, a mech can be far more customizable that a regular human being. You can paint it the way you want, you can change it's part more easily than a human (or else said human would be a cyborg), you can make it looks like a non-human entity, etc. You can go from the rigid aspect of Mechwarrior mech to the Ninja-like Warframes. You can even make them transformable (like in Strike Suite Zero).

In another hand, is it really needed to make the player identify to the model itself? Look at Eve Online. One of the oldest MMO, successful despite being a very niche game, and you don't see your human avatar very often.
 
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Sandsnake

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No. Just No. This is the very difference between Science-Fiction and Science-Fantasy universes. Science-fiction need to be believable, but not Science-Fantasy.
If you are going to use terms, use the crrect ones please. What you are referring to are both Science Fiction, one is just the sub genre called Hard Scifi (almost completely if not 100% completely accurate physics) vs Space Opera (What you are referring to as Science Fantasy)
 

TankHunter678

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Jul 26, 2016
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That means there is zero customization of the character happening, which is the entire point you're ignoring. It's designed that way to show off your character inside.
Which it does not need to.

Its clear that the game is going to be designed that we will be hopping out of the mech pretty often, to hop into other vehicles, or even to run around bases where there will be lots of other players.

Not every area a player can move in will have enough space for such a mech. At these points the player is gonna have to go on foot, maybe even fight on foot. So there are plenty of areas that one can show off player customization.

Having the player exposed in their mech is not required to show off player character customization. Which you would not even see because the camera would have the mechs shoulders between you and the player character and if these things are as mobile as battleframes are you wont see other player characters during the fight because they will be zipping and zooming around so fast or have their back to you.

You would only see other player characters in cases of stationary downtime, or everyone hops out to get into the high speed MAV to fly to the next thumping zone.
 
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Astro

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http://journals.aps.org/prd/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevD.84.025007
scholar.google.com is a great resource. Please try to actually do some research before spouting off
Oh, mind sharing your credentials then, so that I can actually read the journal too? Since you apparently are a subscriber and have read it.

Edit - I'm not even going to waste my time continuing this. Backwards time travel is impossible and doing "some research" before making bold claims, as such, would make that apparent to you.
 
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Edit - I'm not even going to waste my time continuing this.
why not? it's not fun to discuss stuff? I thought that is what forums are for.

Backwards time travel is impossible and doing "some research" before making bold claims, as such, would make that apparent to you.
hmm... Sandsnake, Astro may be right. ... the following article was written in 23 June 2016:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-36597142?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link
I also found a PDF created by Dr Marcus Scheck back in 2014 where they were trying to figure out if this theoretical fourth form of nulcei of pear shapped was common. And another group confirmed it which tosses a wrench in the idea of backwards time travel.
https://www.hzdr.de/db/Cms?pOid=42737

But hey... science has reversed itself plenty of times over the years so who knows? Maybe there is some Quantum Physicists out there that think differently?
 

Andronakos

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Jul 26, 2016
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All these people comparing this to mainstream designs... have we already forgotten that things becoming mainstream in Firefall is exactly what killed it? Have an open mind, stop over thinking things and embrace the unusual and unique nature of the Omniframe.

I'm not sure why people are wondering how that spine holds the Omniframe together, it explains everything in the description of the Omniframe, if anyone bothered reading it. And in terms of practicality, I'd say personal shielding offers a better ratio of protection and movement than a little bit of shields and armor.

The head could easily be holding sensors and adds to the fact that this is less of a mech and more of a larger version of you. A bigger, stronger extension of yourself, if you will, which I imagine is the general idea.

Rather than jumping the gun and passing judgement on this because it's out of the ordinary, think a little farther than "it's different and looks impractical".
 

TankHunter678

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Jul 26, 2016
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There is a difference between visual design and gameplay design.

Firefall went generic MMO gameplay design, killed its marketing, and failed on multiple levels (bug testing, fixing, content development, monetization) which is what killed it.

In terms of visual design its better to be closer to the "mainsteam" because far-off designs have less appeal. Genres exist specifically because of their design elements and fans of those genres expect those elements.

And in terms of practicality having armor with energy shields is better then just energy shields because a power failure to the shield emitters wont mean a completely exposed pilot to the elements the shield was protecting them from.

Its fine for a dockyard floor, just like the referenced designs it was based off of (aliens, the matrix), but impractical for the rigors and needs of combat and hostile environment exploration.
 
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Bl4ckhunter

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In terms of visual design its better to be closer to the "mainsteam" because far-off designs have less appeal. Genres exist specifically because of their design elements and fans of those genres expect those elements.
That's not really true, in the end as far as visual design is concerned the only think that really matters is how good the artist is, different people might like different genres but if the artist is good even people that aren't fans of the genre will appreciate it.
as far as the rest of your post goes i'll just borrow a meme from warframe (which is also a very good example of a very successfull game with a high playerbase and with a very niche art style, (warframe, not the meme.))
 

Sandsnake

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why not? it's not fun to discuss stuff? I thought that is what forums are for.



hmm... Sandsnake, Astro may be right. ... the following article was written in 23 June 2016:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-36597142?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link
I also found a PDF created by Dr Marcus Scheck back in 2014 where they were trying to figure out if this theoretical fourth form of nulcei of pear shapped was common. And another group confirmed it which tosses a wrench in the idea of backwards time travel.
https://www.hzdr.de/db/Cms?pOid=42737

But hey... science has reversed itself plenty of times over the years so who knows? Maybe there is some Quantum Physicists out there that think differently?
Thanks, useful links, much better than to just launch off into a flame for no reason apart from the fact that one's nappies are still wet. The specific research I was thinking about was the teleportation experiments. Due to the fact that instantaneous transmission would break causality in GR, means that some very tricky modelling of ST reality had to be done. This mostly concluded that the carbon teleportation seems to occur not as an actual Teleportation, but a small reverse movement in t which negates the time spent travel in xyz, allowing for an ersatz teleportation effect. The team involved on the experiment have reached about 5m with a large carbon molecule, the last time i checked.
Lastly, the time travel I was talking about are sub Planck length effects that occur continuously, with certain decayed particles coming into being BEFORE their precursors have arisen, or even decayed. This is a well documented function of certain flavours and spins.
 
Aug 4, 2016
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Now is the time for Constructive Criticism, now is the time when Constructive Critisism is what the devs need most, overly positive Fanboying doesn't help, it doesnt tell the devs what they need to work on, a this sucks completely negative approach isn't helpful either. I was a modder once working on a team for a Partial conversion Mod for Command and Conquer, i had the issue of fanboying over the new designs the modelers came up with, they made some fantastic designs! It was only when i was forced to look for weakness in the designs that i could find any, it is that feedback that i gave that helped Modelers the most. that is the feedback we need to give.

as for the off topic on time travel please make a thread in off topic section, that is what it is there for.

Honestly many of my issues have already been discussed and most posts have been constructive. Mark's response does have me a little concerned that he is listening to the Yes men and ignoring those of us with real concerns. I took a look at Firefall when it first started up, and honestly the #1 turnoff i found was the Art, it looked too Cartoonish it wasn't until years later that i took another look at it and that was 1.5. Instead of getting into Firefall i instead Focused on Planetside 2, and i hate PVP, but Planetside 2 looked believable, and it had a cool concept, i just couldnt stand being blown away in half a second and then wretch at all the players defending the idea that they had to be able to blow you away in half a second, that your reaction time was fast enough that you could duck for cover in that period of time. I missed the best parts of Firefall because i didn't like how the art was, you dont want others making the mistake of coming to look at ember seeing the Omniframe and thumper and turning away because the Art style is too unrealistic. you want people coming by liking how believable the designs are, and staying to get hooked on your awesome gameplay aspirations. the reason i am sticking around is because your gameplay ideas are inspiring Mark! but the Art needs work, your miner looks like Guren Lagan, a combat driller, and your Omniframe looks like a glorified Forklift. you have time to scrap your designs and start fresh the hard part hasn't been started.

The Head is Redundant, please either explain it or Remove it, most of the fanboys seem like they don't care for the head and that is saying something.

the Spine is too thin and too exposed, not only does it not look big enough to protect my characters back it looks like it cant support the upper half of the frame, this means that 50% of the weight of your omniframe is being carried on regular non-augmented Human Shoulders, you would be crushed. honestly if you took a human body and removed all the meat between hips and ribcage leaving nothing but spine, your spine would snap. its not designed to hold your weight, its designed to keep your vertical while your muscles hold your weight, and it also connects your nerves to you lower body, no small task, without those nerves you are paralyzed. damage at the upper end of the spine can cause Death as the spine carries signals for your heart to beat and your lungs to breath. anyways the Spine looks Fragile and like it could not on its own support the weght of the mech which would cause a crushing death of the human Pilot. while the Matrix Dockloader and Aliens Forklift ar mentioned often in this thread those frames had more than a spine to hold them up, they look like they can carry heavy weights while none is carried on the pilot. this can be solved with a closed cockpit but even if you don't give us that at least consider giving more supports and Omniframe back Musculature so it looks like can hold the wight of the top of the frame.

The Open Cockpit even with the Force-field looks like a Giant weak spot, a small amount of kevlar isnt going to protect me from what this world has to offer, and if im fighting Kaiju, i dont want to be blown away they moment they get close, i want to put a maximum of protection between me and my enemy, that means a large piece of armor and a large Shield. with potentially an extra shield i can carry on my arm to block forward attacks. You want me to suspend my Disbelief and Connect with my character well i believe my character wants to live and survive, with intact bowls. heck in Battlestar Galactica they explained that even while Cylons were always reborn and basically immortal, they did not like the experience of Death, the pain and memories of pain are always unpleasant reguardless of the new body, regardless of our Characters Immortality and the non-impact of death, they should at least be averse to the idea of being killed even if they get reborn, my character isn't willing to put a gun to her head to fast travel to the nearest re-spawn, why they heck should she want to expose her Body to her enemies, maybe if her Bikini was distracting but honestly she is fighting aliens, monsters, and alien Monsters, none of them would find her sexually appealing if she was 100% naked and begging for it, or however you... ok not going there. it looks liek whatever my character is wearing it might is well be a Bikini and Thong, the Omniframe is the only protection so why emphasize the part where you can wear Body armor when we all know it wont mean squat. please make it a closed cock pit and an open cockpit as a customization option.

100% onboard with the idea that in the social non combat areas of are game we strip off the Omniframe and get to run around as a human being and enjoy our character customizations. in an environment where I and everyone i am trying to make jealous can enjoy it, not in combat where everyone will be focused on the look and abilities of my Omniframe. Mark you Said it Yourself there will be plenty of customizations for my Omniframe and i want to enjoy them to the fullest in the combat setting, but my character herself she doesn't feel safe in an open cockpit unless she is out of danger. Heck Warframe Spoiler: now has customizations for both the Warframe and its Operator, just because i dont see my operator much doesn't mean i don't enjoy making her Pretty, and the next major update promises a bigger role for my Operator.

TLDR; constructive critisism please, yes men and No Men are really bad
Please Mark don't get swept up by the Yes Men, they say yes to good and bad ideas, dont get too attached to your own work that you cant trash something at this stage and change it, its not too late.
Spine: too thin and flimsy some reinforcement is needed
Open Cockpit: Im connecting to my Character and She is telling me she doesn't feel safe, she'll wear a fracking bikini if she doesn't have to show it off to every mindless mob and mindless sob while she is fighting. She wants to fight not show off.
Strut your Stuff in social environments and bases, The Dotombori Robo is fun and all but when you are strutting around Nudist Beach Be Naked!! (Kill La Kill Referance)
 
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TankHunter678

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The Head is Redundant, please either explain it or Remove it, most of the fanboys seem like they don't care for the head and that is saying something.
The head is explained as having a enhanced sensor suite that is projected in front of the player for them to see. Though with an open cockpit the head does feel completely redundant. Especially since we could just wear the sensors on a helmet. With a closed cockpit the head makes much more sense. As its cameras would be your main way of seeing whats going on around you.
 
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TankHunter678

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The spine is too small. No protection. Integrity Field. Shielding. Description. Read it.
We have. Does not change our opinions.

Integrity field? So anything that gets past the EMP shielding means the frame crushes us cause the integrity field (which may as well be space magic to most) fails and the suit cannot support itself without the field. Also means the Energy Shield fails so we get cooked if we are in a volcanic environment, or frozen in an artic environment, or just choke to death on the atmosphere in a toxic environment.

At least with a closed cockpit in a properly reinforced frame if the shields go down we are in a self contained atmosphere and have some time to get systems back online regardless of the environment.
 

Dremor

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Jul 27, 2016
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If you are going to use terms, use the crrect ones please. What you are referring to are both Science Fiction, one is just the sub genre called Hard Scifi (almost completely if not 100% completely accurate physics) vs Space Opera (What you are referring to as Science Fantasy)
Good old wikipedia (and its source, I checked them) say otherwise :

1. Space Opera vs Science Fantasy

Space opera:
Space opera is a subgenre of science fiction that emphasizes space warfare, melodramatic adventure, and often risk-taking, interplanetary battles, as well as chivalric romance.
Source: Wikipedia

A novel, movie, or television program set in outer space, typically of a simplistic and melodramatic nature.
Source: Oxford Dictionnaries

Science Fantasy:
Science fantasy is a mixed genre within the umbrella of speculative fiction which simultaneously draws upon and/or combines tropes and elements from both science fiction and fantasy. It also sometimes incorporates elements of horror fiction.
Distinguishing between science fiction and fantasy, Rod Serling claimed that the former was "the improbable made possible" while the latter was "the impossible made probable". As a combination of the two, science fantasy gives a scientific veneer of realism to things that simply could not happen in the real world under any circumstances. Where science fiction does not permit the existence of fantasy or supernatural elements, science fantasy explicitly relies upon them.
Source: Wikipedia

Sure, Starwars can look like a Space Opera (risk-taking space battle, chivalric romance, etc.), but also have some supernatural elements (the Force). Same goes for Startrek (the Q). Defining what exact genre these universe belong to have always been a heated debate. Here is some interesting article about this (on Startrek at least): Startrek: of Gods and Men

And a revelant Extra Credit video:
 

Dremor

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TLDR; constructive critisism please, yes men and No Men are really bad
Please Mark don't get swept up by the Yes Men, they say yes to good and bad ideas, dont get too attached to your own work that you cant trash something at this stage and change it, its not too late.
Yet another relevant Extra Credits video:

Spine: too thin and flimsy some reinforcement is needed
Open Cockpit: Im connecting to my Character and She is telling me she doesn't feel safe, she'll wear a fracking bikini if she doesn't have to show it off to every mindless mob and mindless sob while she is fighting. She wants to fight not show off.
Strut your Stuff in social environments and bases, The Dotombori Robo is fun and all but when you are strutting around Nudist Beach Be Naked!! (Kill La Kill Referance)
More or less explain what I feels too. I would also add something obvious: the camera being behind us (unless some crazy game designer choose otherwise), we won't see our operator that much.
 
Jul 26, 2016
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At least with a closed cockpit in a properly reinforced frame if the shields go down we are in a self contained atmosphere and have some time to get systems back online regardless of the environment.
a easy fix for the problem of the expose pilot is make a cabin/coppit of Transparent Aluminum armor... you will still have the asetic of seeing the pilot & he will have protection at the same time.

so, you will have a shield & a solid transparent armor

for some contest.. a 1.6 inch Transparent Aluminum armor can hold a 50 caliber bullet with not problem.
So, you can say that during all the yr.. they have fine a way's to reinforce Transparent Aluminum and it's 5-8 better and lighter and even give some basic lvl of protection vs radiation

note: Transparent Aluminum armor was something that was only a sifi thing ( star-trek), but now it have ben build and have alot of applications

info-
http://www.surmet.com/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_oxynitride

50 calliber test
 
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