The Omniframe Revealed

[Dr Doom]

Hm.. perhaps more options with colours and a bit more colourful frame. It was proven that players like something like a parrot I like mostly with blue and red colour... At this moment 80% is grey.. makes me feel old. Frame itself will be a big challenge for 3d modelers especially with rigs and stuff. It looks nice... now, what weapons will be added to it?

 

[MattHunX]

Going back to someone's post mentioning different layers of defense.

It can easily be a mix between Mass Effect style armor, shields, chitin...etc. and between how you take down those giant Chosen Obliterators with the plates of armor protecting vital points until the enemy can be effectively damaged. And some enemies should have more critical/weak spots than others. Some need to be revealed by stripping away the layers of defense, while others could be immediately targeted.

The player character (or...more like...the mech they may end up piloting, after all) should also have weak(er) spots on themselves (like the head, wings or joints).

Also, not particularly related...

I had a good little spar with one of those chosen units that looks like it glides/roller-skates around with blades and can do heavy damage in melee, but as I discovered, it can also fly upwards and shoot a ranged weapon, as well. I started leveling a different frame, so I wasn't strong enough to take it out instantly, so I never saw those attacks, before. It was an interesting little fight. And it was good.

There should definitely be units that simply cannot be taken out immediately, that would put up a longer fight. Elites. But, the kind that we fight at the OCT. Obviously not THAT strong, but one that could hop and dash around like the player, go for cover, use different abilities for offense and defense, evasion. Firefall only has maybe one move for defense and offense, for enemies. It should be expended. Especially with more humanoid or more sentient enemies.

 

[EvilKitten]

You know after looking at this omniframe for a bit I suddenly had a bit of confusion...How exactly does

relate to

Other than the fact that the hips look like they are in serious need of a medical professional, I really really like the minimalistic design on the original Ember poster and had assumed this would be the route the omniframe would take. So how did we get from point A to point B?

 

[Squid Boss]

You know after looking at this omniframe for a bit I suddenly had a bit of confusion...How exactly does

relate to

Other than the fact that the hips look like they are in serious need of a medical professional, I really really like the minimalistic design on the original Ember poster and had assumed this would be the route the omniframe would take. So how did we get from point A to point B?

It doesn't.

That was a teaser poster highlighting the return of the Firefall vision through Ember. It wasn't to showcase characters or frame designs. More just to show the mining robot if anything at all.

Who is to say the woman in the image is not just wearing something standard for a generic soldier or technician and the Omniframe is the military grade hardware?

Problem we are going to see is that a game with minuscule development is going to constantly be compared to Firefall with the images of Firefall in many peoples heads. We have to separate Firefall and Ember as they are not the same game but instead based only on the same founding principals.

It'll look different. It should look different.

Gotta forget about Firefall and Firefall looks. This is Ember.

 

[EvilKitten]

@Squid Boss, So you are saying that the character in the foreground of the Ember promotional poster actually has nothing to do with Ember, or at least nothing to do with the player experience in what will be Ember? Is that like Nike advertising their latest shoes by promoting beachfront property in Nunavut?

EDIT: And yes, the promotional poster does look a little bit like Firefall's Nighhawk frame, but that is because the Nighhawk in Firefall was probably that games most minimalistic design as well. While the frame in Ember's poster might have been inspired by Firefall it is definitely it's own unique design. I do not see why or how Firefall should have anything to do with my question.

 

[Sik San]

It'll look different. It should look different.

Gotta forget about Firefall and Firefall looks. This is Ember.

I did not play FireFall at all, yet still I can't say I'm satisfied. It's not about FF in ppls heads. It's about questionable design

 

[SomeUnregPunk]

@Squid Boss, So you are saying that the character in the foreground of the Ember promotional poster actually has nothing to do with Ember, or at least nothing to do with the player experience in what will be Ember? Is that like Nike advertising their latest shoes by promoting beachfront property in Nunavut?

At the time that poster was created, Mark Kern was by himself and one or two other people.
They didn't have any funding.
So they quickly made some media to show what they are trying to make. That's why there is a Canon Printer logo on the Mek/drill.

Y'all are thinking as if everything in Ember is set in stone right now with no deviation and that's really unrealistic.

 

[t3hsquirr3l]

I'm a big fan of the Omniframe design so far, it's a great concept! The magic words I needed to hear: "These frames are *fast*. They move like Firefall characters. They do not lumber like mechs."

Having said that, I'm curious about how roles and visuals will work. To what degree will choosing a role affect the appearance of your frame? I consider it important to be able to recognize another player's role just by looking at them. That might be difficult if everyone has a similar silhouette.

 

[EvilKitten]

Y'all are thinking as if everything in Ember is set in stone right now with no deviation and that's really unrealistic.

Hardly, my questions were literally, "How do these two concepts relate", and "How did we get from point A to point B." Funding and assistance has nothing to do with creativity. I suppose I assume that Mark would already know what he wanted (at least in general) the omni-frame to look like for some time. So either he changed his mind about the frame appearance between the poster and the concept art or...something else. At any rate asking for some clarification as to how and why things have changed is not an issue of things being set in stone but more about the thought process involved and the direction Mark intends to go. As yet there are still a great many things about Ember that exist only in Mark's head, figuring out how choices are being made from the top is something I find rather important.

 

[Krhys]

Omniframe - or Stumpiframe?????

Sorry but it just doesn't do it for me.

Not that it would stop me playing the game, of course!

 

[MollilMayhem]

Hardly, my questions were literally, "How do these two concepts relate", and "How did we get from point A to point B." Funding and assistance has nothing to do with creativity. I suppose I assume that Mark would already know what he wanted (at least in general) the omni-frame to look like for some time. So either he changed his mind about the frame appearance between the poster and the concept art or...something else. At any rate asking for some clarification as to how and why things have changed is not an issue of things being set in stone but more about the thought process involved and the direction Mark intends to go. As yet there are still a great many things about Ember that exist only in Mark's head, figuring out how choices are being made from the top is something I find rather important.

All I can say is, having seen the Omniframe design, I am NOT thrilled with it. I didn't much like the art in the original poster (like you, I thought the model was badly mis-proportioned), but I definitely don't like the idea of being a sniper in an Omniframe. Fast or not, it just isn't visually pleasing to me, and I don't really think even with customization that the combat roles will be very distinguishable.

 

[Squid Boss]

@Squid Boss, So you are saying that the character in the foreground of the Ember promotional poster actually has nothing to do with Ember, or at least nothing to do with the player experience in what will be Ember? Is that like Nike advertising their latest shoes by promoting beachfront property in Nunavut?

EDIT: And yes, the promotional poster does look a little bit like Firefall's Nighhawk frame, but that is because the Nighhawk in Firefall was probably that games most minimalistic design as well. While the frame in Ember's poster might have been inspired by Firefall it is definitely it's own unique design. I do not see why or how Firefall should have anything to do with my question.

If you read my post I never said such thing at all that it didn't have anything to do with Ember.

What I did say: She might not be wearing the battle suit used in combat that our characters will and there is/was no definitive proof of concept at the time to designate that what she is wearing is what we will be wearing.

For example: Were the majority of the NPC's in Firefall all wearing full Battleframes? Were all main characters all wearing Battleframes?

As for the Edit it wasn't directed at you but in a certain way comes around very slightly. Yes, she's wearing something, but the game was a thought when that was made, it wasn't fleshed out at all. That's why we have this thread right now. A lot of others are stuck on what we looked like in Firefall but this isn't Firefall.

Could have used clarification but I'm at work.

 

[EvilKitten]

A lot of others are stuck on what we looked like in Firefall but this isn't Firefall.

No it is the "spiritual successor" to Firefall. I wasn't going to bother with Firefall comparisons but sure why not...

Now mind you this is my own personal opinion, I can't speak for others. One of the things that really made Firefall so cool was how iconic the frames were. Everything was fairly basic and it was obvious that while some of it was stylistic there was still a use for all of the parts involved. No frills, easy on the eyes and easy to recognize.

EDIT: Ok except for the poor bastion...

My two favorite frames were the Dragonfly and Nighhawk. At least when I played FF the frames were both basically bodysuits with some attachments, This made sense because both frames were meant to be quick and agile and they definately had that look. Sure the Nighhawk had some fin looking things coming out the back but it was simply and seemed to have something to do with being part of the stealth unit that was part of the bread and butter of a Nighhawk. Same thing with The dragonfly, it had two "wings" on the back with biocontainers that pumped in and out a bit. A little more busy than the nighhawk but again the dragonfly was constantly pumping out bio stuff to use in abilities and weapons. So again the parts of the frame were minimal and made logical sense in their aesthetic purpose.

The omniframe concept art looks badass as I have said before, but that's actually a little bit of the problem. It's busy, in that there are tons and tons of details and parts and flair and flanges and do-hickies that don't really look like they serve any useful purpose other than to *look* badass. I mean look at the feet, it almost looks like it has Hermes wings on its feet. Do those really serve a real purpose? Sure you could come up with some technobabble to explain it away but I think everyone realizes that no it was just to be stylistic so you are not going to get very far there.

Lets not get into the part where if you remove the human from the machine it looks like it would snap in half, or the fact that it appears you are not going to have any knees so walking is going to be realistically awkward (try walking without bending your knees). Or the fact that those wings are massive and yet um, have no aerodynamics whatsoever.

So to compare; Firefall's iconic, svelte, functional vs. Omniframe's busy, confusing, unrealistic

Now again, this isn't something I find terribly discouraging. After all this is simply a first pass look on what the omniframe might look like. I highly doubt the end result will be this picture as presented, but it still makes me want to know the thought process going on in Mark's head.

For example: Were the majority of the NPC's in Firefall all wearing full Battleframes? Were all main characters all wearing Battleframes?

Were any of these characters used as promotional material?

 

[Squid Boss]

No it is the "spiritual successor" to Firefall. I wasn't going to bother with Firefall comparisons but sure why not...

Now mind you this is my own personal opinion, I can't speak for others. One of the things that really made Firefall so cool was how iconic the frames were. Everything was fairly basic and it was obvious that while some of it was stylistic there was still a use for all of the parts involved. No frills, easy on the eyes and easy to recognize.

EDIT: Ok except for the poor bastion...

My two favorite frames were the Dragonfly and Nighhawk. At least when I played FF the frames were both basically bodysuits with some attachments, This made sense because both frames were meant to be quick and agile and they definately had that look. Sure the Nighhawk had some fin looking things coming out the back but it was simply and seemed to have something to do with being part of the stealth unit that was part of the bread and butter of a Nighhawk. Same thing with The dragonfly, it had two "wings" on the back with biocontainers that pumped in and out a bit. A little more busy than the nighhawk but again the dragonfly was constantly pumping out bio stuff to use in abilities and weapons. So again the parts of the frame were minimal and made logical sense in their aesthetic purpose.

The omniframe concept art looks badass as I have said before, but that's actually a little bit of the problem. It's busy, in that there are tons and tons of details and parts and flair and flanges and do-hickies that don't really look like they serve any useful purpose other than to *look* badass. I mean look at the feet, it almost looks like it has Hermes wings on its feet. Do those really serve a real purpose? Sure you could come up with some technobabble to explain it away but I think everyone realizes that no it was just to be stylistic so you are not going to get very far there.

Lets not get into the part where if you remove the human from the machine it looks like it would snap in half, or the fact that it appears you are not going to have any knees so walking is going to be realistically awkward (try walking without bending your knees). Or the fact that those wings are massive and yet um, have no aerodynamics whatsoever.

So to compare; Firefall's iconic, svelte, functional vs. Omniframe's busy, confusing, unrealistic

Now again, this isn't something I find terribly discouraging. After all this is simply a first pass look on what the omniframe might look like. I highly doubt the end result will be this picture as presented, but it still makes me want to know the thought process going on in Mark's head.



Were any of these characters used as promotional material?

I don't know what point you are arguing here in even the slightest.

It seems like you're on what information we have doesn't fit your presumption of what would be and a lack of information telling you what will be is bothering you? All cool, but I don't see the point. This whole thing is information coming slowly and being created and then handed to us. There's nothing to dump out of the bucket filled with a handful of rough ideas and sketches that is going to solidify everything for probably quite some time.

It looks like we are going Mechwarrior on someones ass in the future. I'm cool with that if that is to be as it is the Crixa universe and not the Firefall universe. It does look bulky, could use slimming, a little more structural holding, but with no more info, why argue about it?

Not saying you are arguing. It's the universal You/We/Whatever.

 

[TankHunter678]

It looks like we are going Mechwarrior on someones ass in the future. I'm cool with that if that is to be as it is the Crixa universe and not the Firefall universe. It does look bulky, could use slimming, a little more structural holding, but with no more info, why argue about it?

Not even close to mechwarrior lol. Elementals (hell even Urban Mechs aka the Trashcans of the Mechwarrior universe) would rip that Omniframe apart like its a playtoy. The structure is just not good enough.

A good part of the problem is not that it is bulky and needs slimming, part of the problem is that it does not have bulk in the areas needed to support the rest of the bulk. Making the entire design just not work visually. Yeah yeah integrity field space magic handwaving but when going on visuals and its stated purpose as a combat frame the design does not really work. The pilot is too exposed, the upper body is too reliant on space magic handwaving. If that thing were in the mechwarrior verse the moment it overheats is the moment it crushes its pilot as its core does its emergency shutdown.

It needs a support frame between the upper and lower body. Also needs to be enclosed to act as a secondary defense for the pilot (beyond just the energy shield) in addition to operating as a self contained atmosphere. For those environments too hazardous for a pilot to leave the vehicle.

 

[Squid Boss]

Not even close to mechwarrior lol. Elementals (hell even Urban Mechs aka the Trashcans of the Mechwarrior universe) would rip that Omniframe apart like its a playtoy. The structure is just not good enough.

A good part of the problem is not that it is bulky and needs slimming, part of the problem is that it does not have bulk in the areas needed to support the rest of the bulk. Making the entire design just not work visually. Yeah yeah integrity field space magic handwaving but when going on visuals and its stated purpose as a combat frame the design does not really work. The pilot is too exposed, the upper body is too reliant on space magic handwaving. If that thing were in the mechwarrior verse the moment it overheats is the moment it crushes its pilot as its core does its emergency shutdown.

It needs a support frame between the upper and lower body. Also needs to be enclosed to act as a secondary defense for the pilot (beyond just the energy shield) in addition to operating as a self contained atmosphere. For those environments too hazardous for a pilot to leave the vehicle.

I know it was a stretch from MW. Those are lovely beasts.

It either needs slimming or more bulking. It looks like it is between two points. Fully suited battle armor and "Oops we forgot a few pieces." but maybe there is some technology adding that support? I dunno. I don't see a point ripping the technical apart but the cosmetic perhaps could be worked on in a few quick adjustment sketches to give us more in the way of a choice.

 

[Bl4ckhunter]

snip

in firefall you could facetank a gatling gun and no one complained, the assault design would've crushed the operator in the first jumpjet test (no joints at all between legs and chest piece) and i didn't hear a word about it, i can respect the fact that you don't like it but you should stop with the wall of texts about how it's not realistic becouse that's a non-argument, besides i get the feeling that it's meant to stomp infantry not to take on giant mechs like mechwarrior ones, those are ten meters tall at least, the omniframe would average 2-3m at most, that's totally out of scale, which also goes to your complaint about armor, that's a bulky infantry suit, not a mech at the end.

 

[TankHunter678]

I know it was a stretch from MW. Those are lovely beasts.

It either needs slimming or more bulking. It looks like it is between two points. Fully suited battle armor and "Oops we forgot a few pieces." but maybe there is some technology adding that support? I dunno. I don't see a point ripping the technical apart but the cosmetic perhaps could be worked on in a few quick adjustment sketches to give us more in the way of a choice.

I think for those who like sniping, or want to sacrifice durability for even more speed, a entirely new suit should be designed.

Probably more along the lines of less mech and more power armor, an actual suit the player wears instead of something they stand in. Think more along the lines as something linked earlier in this discussion, the Infinite Stratos suits. Or as referenced Hyperdimension Neptunia's goddesses. Or Firefall's battleframes.

A big bulky mech is perfect for those who want to feel like the biggest toughest thing on the battlefield wielding impressive weaponry. Not so much for snipers, or speed freaks having to deal with atmosphere.

in firefall you could facetank a gatling gun and no one complained, the assault design would've crushed the operator in the first jumpjet test (no joints at all between legs and chest piece) and i didn't hear a word about it, i can respect the fact that you don't like it but you should stop with the wall of texts about how it's not realistic becouse that's a non-argument, besides i get the feeling that it's meant to stomp infantry not to take on giant mechs like mechwarrior ones, those are ten meters tall at least, the omniframe would average 2-3m at most, that's totally out of scale, which also goes to your complaint about armor, that's a bulky infantry suit, not a mech at the end.

Elementals are battle armor, generally ~8-9 feet tall, weigh 1 ton, and move at ~11 km/h at top speed. They are classified as armored infantry. Carrying typically a small laser, and a 1 use detachable SRM-2 system. They also have jumpjets and a claw that has been known to be used by groups of elemental pilots to rip larger mechs apart with ease or hitch a ride on omnimech handholds. Here is a cross-section picture of one:

And in Firefall no one complained because the only ones that were really designed for being able to facetank gatling guns were Dreadnoughts, the most heavily armored frames. Everything else was more or less designed around out maneuvering (assaults), having someone else go first (medic/biotech), not being in the firing line to begin with (recon), or hide behind defensive forcefields while turrets lent their help in eliminating the threat as fast as possible (engineer).

Oh, and I am sure a lot of assault pilots lost their lives during the RnD of the assault frame. No doubt about that. Pretty sure in the ember verse this omniframe has crushed more then its fair share of operators due to integrity field failures.

 

[Bl4ckhunter]

Probably more along the lines of less mech and more power armor, an actual suit the player wears instead of something they stand in. Think more along the lines as something linked earlier in this discussion, the Infinite Stratos suits. Or as referenced Hyperdimension Neptunia's goddesses. Or Firefall's battleframes.

infinite stratos has near zero chest armor and massive legs and pieces hovering around doing their own buisness, it looks fairly similiar to the omniframe concept if you totally remove the chest chassis, i think that personally it would look even less fitting for a sniper unless you're sniping with this

Oh, and I am sure a lot of assault pilots lost their lives during the RnD of the assault frame. No doubt about that. Pretty sure in the ember verse this omniframe has crushed more then its fair share of operators due to integrity field failures.

not in that sense, the female assault boots simply don't have any connection to the reactor piece and the chest armor has zero structural support so the reactor would basically break your spine at any attempt to jumpjet

i stand corrected regards to the mechwarrior thing, anyways 11 km/h is not that low for a thing that looks very bulky

 

[Squid Boss]

I think for those who like sniping, or want to sacrifice durability for even more speed, a entirely new suit should be designed.

Probably more along the lines of less mech and more power armor, an actual suit the player wears instead of something they stand in. Think more along the lines as something linked earlier in this discussion, the Infinite Stratos suits. Or as referenced Hyperdimension Neptunia's goddesses. Or Firefall's battleframes.

A big bulky mech is perfect for those who want to feel like the biggest toughest thing on the battlefield wielding impressive weaponry. Not so much for snipers, or speed freaks having to deal with atmosphere.

This is where modular Omniframe is best and why a classless would be nice.

Model three variations depending on attached armors;
Heavy - Totally Armored head to toe and largest.
Medium - Less armor overall and some open spots and medium size.
Light - Least armor and smaller size.

Without going to deep, the armor slotted also puts limitations on weapons and abilities and general functions, movement, durability, etc.