Size Of Armaments, Going Frame-less, Repairs

[MattHunX]

Considering that even the lightest of frames could be carrying cannons of considerable caliber, compared to what a single person could or will be equipped with (outside of their frames), the enemies, particularly the Tsi-Hu, ought to warrant such fire-power. Even the smallest grunts and runts of a litter, shock-troops, foot-soldiers...etc. should require a frame's armaments to effectively combat them. Out on foot, with a damaged and inoperable frame, a human ought to be f***ed. At least, if they'd run into Tsi-Hu and medium-sized to large wildlife.

Their standard-issue equipment should have only enough power to force any pursuers into cover or slow them down through gadgets and elemental effects, like cryo, walls of flame from incendiary, shock-field, corrosive sludge, gravity-manipulating equipment that could also facilitate faster and easier traversal of the terrain without a frame, so that one could get to the nearest outpost and safe-zone faster, then, be shuttled back to the nearest garage for their recovered and repaired frame...or, even get a completely new one, complete with the weapons, mods, stats, upgrades and specifications of their previous one, which would essentially be how 'respawning' would work and could be explained within that world, so it feels more immersive and believable within the story's narrative. All of that, the repairing of damaged frames and new ones would deduct resources from the person, even in advance, so if they don't have enough, they could still be helped and they'd pay it off later.

Or have we discussed abolishing item and frame degradation altogether? I only vaguely remember. Not even if I was for or against it.

I am certain, however, that I've mentioned and we discussed, at some length, the possibilities for what kind of weapons our frames would be able to support, from swords, hammers, halberds, railguns, mortars and the like to rocket-pods (I saw there is already some rocket-swarm ability) and even larger.

Hmmm...I just had an idea for one. Two smaller rail-guns on each shoulder, that could slide together and combine on the heavy frame's back, to form a single, more powerful weapon and the feet of the frame would need to clamp down and lock in place (deploy) for it to fire. Maybe it wouldn't even fire like a rail-gun, anymore, in a straight line, but more like a mortar or other artillery (I have the artilleries from C&C3 in mind). It could also be energy-based or lobbing super-heated plasma slugs across the field. Slugs that could be modified to have different elemental properties as well, with an understandably slower fire-rate for balance's sake.

 

[Omnires]

Although I do think that the Humans outside of the frames should be noticeably a lot weaker, I don't think they should be by any means be helpless and forced to run away all the time. Humans have survived this long even against larger animals in real life because we are able to out smart them without the need to over power them. So setting up things like traps and aiming for weak points should be more of a focus while running around as a Human if you going to keep fighting rather than run away. It should still be possible for people kill enemies without a frame, if they know what they are doing and are skilled enough to do it. Granted it would be a lot faster and easier with a frame, but not still impossible to do without one. After all, in real life kinda because one being is many times your own size and is able to kill you in one hit, doesn't mean that you can't kill it. You just have to play your cards right always aim for the blind spots and gaps in their defences.

But then again I might not be the normal one here. Given how I both been in a lot of fights in real life where the odds of winning was against me and still won, and I studied things like the science of combat and biology. So it could be my mindset in things like this is that of an outlier sense I know what it feels like to win fights when you are going against those who are larger than you and/or when you are outnumbered.

Anyway, on the topic of using elemental effects on both the enemy and surrounding area itself there should be some real thought put inside how different elements interact with each other and not just how they act alone. For example, could I use heat/fire to turn ice into water vapor and while the enemy is still inside the mist/fog I can use a powerful electrical/lightning attack convert the vapor and surrounding air into a plasma? By linking a chain of smaller attacks together using their elemental effects to keep both the enemy confused while pumping more and more energy into the air around them could you trigger as giant powerful AOE like that plasma ball? It doesn't even have to take that many steps, as anyone who knows about dust explosions can tell you (Note, dust explosions are really the to reason as to why safety laws are in place to keep the amount of free floating dust and other matter in the air below a given amount. Dust explosions are the reason things like some factories blow up and take out everything else around them too.). A good example of an elemental combo system that lets you chain effects is in this game.

But even if this game doesn't go in the rout of having elemental combos boosting each other or making feedback loops. Given that we are using mecha and have same large weapons to work with in a sci-fi setting. I would like to see some really good elemental attacks that I can use to control the flow of battle and things around me. For example, can I do like in some other games and use ice attacks to freeze water to both trap enemies in place while also giving me something to stand on? Can we make ice paths and islands in large bodies of water as a way to take away any kind of swimming or floating advanage the enemy might have while out at sea? There are lots of examples I could use, but this one is first one that pops into my mind at the moment that has mecha in it. Can we do something like this, like what the mecha does with the cryo missile?

edited by me to my point clearer.​

 

[Pandagnome]

Their standard-issue equipment should have only enough power to force any pursuers into cover or slow them down through gadgets and elemental effects, like cryo, walls of flame from incendiary, shock-field, corrosive sludge, gravity-manipulating equipment that could also facilitate faster and easier traversal of the terrain without a frame, so that one could get to the nearest outpost and safe-zone faster

Wonder if the standard issue equipment could change and from a class specific equipment for pilots.

This way you could for example have a gadget for locating structures and one for setting up traps
Then you can have your standard issue health shots and mobile survival shelter

The mobile survival shelter could be a great for example if a storm approaches and there is no where to go this would be just the thing.

If a storm was to occur and as pilot would you be blown away is there a tech to hold you down in place but with movement restrictions hmm

After all, in real life kind because one being is mean times your own size and is able to kill you in one hit, doesn't mean that you can't kill it. You just have to play your cards right always aim for the blind spots and gaps in their defences.

Lets say your on your own for now and as a pilot faced with a broken communication tower however in the area is a cloaking tsi-hu you can see it time to time its like something from predator

- Could sneak and be sneaky to fix it without getting detected
- Could create a distraction but how smart is the tsi-hu i mean could it detect your foot prints in the snow !

- What if you just made a trap made alot of noise and it fell into a hole hmm

Well i like the idea that pilots we are more vulnerable as i remember something about risk -reward so how much reward for a pilot to take such risks?

Could the pilot get better stuff i mean we are focused on mechs here i'd still love to see various G-suits and ways we can do things as pilots too.

Mechs and vehicles are going to be very cool, and really hope to also play as a pilot would be fun too.

That's another thing playing as a pilot would also be another incentive for medics i mean squishy things can squish well good thing we got some heroic medics around.

So as a medic could you heal both pilots and mek or would the engineer be focused on repairing meks and medics for pilots hmm

 

[Omnires]

My reasoning for not making the pilots totally helpless outside of the frames has to do with that pilots are. They are meant to being things like explorers, survivalists, trained combatants, and scientists right, so why would they always be on the run from danger when they should have the knowledge and skills needed to think of an answer for how to survival and get the job done? Again, I say I might be the odd one out in this line of thinking given how it is how I think about things in real life. For example when ever I go into a new building or area I don't know, in the back of my mind no matter what else I'm doing am always taking note of all the entrances and exits, how much force would one need to open or block it, what is the fastest way and from each entrance and exit, and where are the different lines of sights. And that is just part of my normal thinking when mapping out areas in my head. Never mind the fact that I'm also taking note of everything in area that can be used as a weapon or shield either by myself or by other people. There is a reason why phases like "always be prepared." and "better safe than sorry." exist. It only takes one or two times of you being caught inside an ambush for you to drill those subroutine into your subconscious mind.

 

[MattHunX]

Yeah, I think I exaggerated, a bit, about how effective human-sized gear should be. While I don't want to see damage-sponge enemies, either (and since we're not going to have levels there won't be small critters that can one-shot you or take hours to kill, simply because they're several levels above you) it'd still make things more tough and interesting if your standard out-of-frame equipment would only be enough to take down the weakest forms of Tsi-Hu and other enemy types. And by weak, I mean weak in size, armor, shield, speed and numbers, so it wouldn't be like with the Chosen, where a whole squad of their basic foot-soldiers would teleport in to ambush you and you'd just pick them off. It shouldn't be that simple, given what kind of beings the Tsi-Hu would be (and hell, who knows the story, the Enshigi might be just as tough, who knows how advanced THEY have gotten over the centuries, eh?).

 

[Dam13n]

I think the idea was that your spare MEK gets dropped in, once you break your current one.

I agree that SOME defensive/offensive capabilities while waiting for your new MEK would be beneficial over being completely helpless. Mostly just for the flow of combat. Em8er is going to be a power fantasy and while breaking your MEK should be punishing, the power fantasy aspect would still benefit from at least being able to hold your own (if you play it smart) until your MEK arrives.

Completely being vulnerable in that period would feel like a double punishment and the better option would then probably be to just kill the player and spawn them at the nearest base imo.

This doesn't feel good;

By contrast this does;

It should feel like a direct downgrade but not like being a fish out of water.
Some abilities tied to the G-suit could help keep the suitability up. Bio enhancing nanobots/space magic in their bloodstream that can only be used for a short time.

Something like that.

An overwhelming challenge but not an unwinnable one. This would make the player feel a sense of accomplishment by surviving the timer and counteracts the feeling of just loosing a MEK. IMO.

 

[Dam13n]

Another thing that was pointed out about the decay system of your frame and i don't know if this is still intended to be implemented, would be that if one part of your perfectly in shape frame gets sufficient damage, it begins to malfunctioning in battle.

*If the deday period is long, similar to how Firefall had it and i got time enough to go repair it in between a couple of fights, then no problem. But if it's like Zelda BOTW style. No please.*

I personally like to take risks in a encounter and stay close to dying when i feel i got a good grove going. All or nothing. Either i pull off these next sick maneuvers or i fail but at least i went out in style. The idea that if i take a bit too much damage to one core element and all of a sudden my Afterburner or another core ability start to malfunction, either cooldown, strenght, whatever.

Eh....

Just takes me out of it and goes against the "act don't think", running on muscle memory style of that type of gameplay. For fast paced gameplay this is the antagonist.

Personally, i would at that point just let them kill me so i can get my normal frame back that i'm used to. This can of course also be remedied with repair orbs on the battlefield, etc. But for fast paced gameplay, getting out of your mind-body connection with your avatar is just the worst feeling.

Another example of how at one point FF broke that flow for the berserker frames is when they implemented multi charged afterburner. They implemented it in such a way that the timer reset every time you used your AB. Let's say a 14 second timer. If i activated my second charge 13 seconds after my first i had no charges left and 14 sec on the clock. This is not flow inducing design.

This would be the way to do it right, check the timer, right corner.
The original timer doesn't stop until it is full.


A frame like the Bastion for example was the more micro manage gameplay type but even here i feel like it would be a determent not to take flow into account, except with a designated ability dropping a repair pod or something but this then becomes a meta ability that probably just should have been a core feature.

I personally would prefer if your frame either works, or it doesn't. (again not taking in between fight repairs into account but the idea of when having a fully operational frame, getting a bad "critical strike" to one component, that this could cripple it)

"FIGHT ME BRO!!!"
"But you only have one arm and a leg left"
"I don't care, i can still take you"

 

[Pandagnome]

To see this games with wondering pilots on foot, even in vehicles in meks, drop ships and surviving the dreaded encounters!

I keep thinking just like this the pilots could take down certain kaiju's not that they could take the biggest of them all on their own but it will take some skill to do this.

Then i am reminded of lost planet and how been able to go in and out of buildings, mechs and how small we are compared to the big creatures.

I am intrigued how we all can play as pllots we are shown that meks are the preferred focus and the meks are stylish.

Then we have vehicles want to see what kind of collection of vehicles that are going to be available to us? and the pilot our little self with sheer determination and yet vulnerable than armored options.

Also it would be fun to hide as humans when a menacing kaiju so powerful tears the meks and our choice of fighting could result to playing as a pilot.

 

[Omnires]

Plus you also have to remember that just because we are outside of our frames doesn't mean we still can't use the big heavy weapons. After all, to call in things like an artillery strike or orbital strike all you need to do give the right targeting information to the gun. And can be as simple as giving the location of the target on a grid or giving your own location and the distance and direction of the target relative to you. Meaning something as small and simple as a rangefinder with GPS built into it can work. Hell, we do this all the time in real life. This how people paint targets for artillery, bombers, and guided missiles.

This mean even though a pilot might be outside of their frame they can still rain down death on the enemy by giving targeting information to HQ, support units, friendly attack ships, and/or orbital weapons platform. Just make sure you are outside of the range of the attack too or risk being killed yourself. Although there are lots of stories in real life wars of people calling in strikes on their own location as way to kill off as many enemies as possible while they was too injured to fight back or seen no other way out alive.

Not all the weapons need to be carried by us. As long as we can still talk to the other units they can attack for us. And that point it is just a matter of how long does it take them to make adjustments to their aim to hit the place you marked or called in as well as the travel time of long range attacks. And this could also be part of the high risk high reward play style that some of like to play as. Can you mark a target and stay alive long enough for the hit to land? And if you are also within the range of the attack can you find a way to avoid being killed by your own attack along with the enemy(s)? I know as a person who also likes to play a stealth units that this would be fun as hell to play with. Getting out of my frame to get behind enemy lines and marking key targets for an orbital strike. All the while trying to avoid being noticed by the larger enemies that could kill me just by stepping on me as I run and stealth my way pass them to line up my shots as well as the panic that happens after the attack hits as they are now on alert but don't know where they attacks or coming from or how they are being targeted.

 

[MattHunX]

I think the idea was that your spare MEK gets dropped in, once you break your current one.

I agree that SOME defensive/offensive capabilities while waiting for your new MEK would be beneficial over being completely helpless. Mostly just for the flow of combat. Em8er is going to be a power fantasy and while breaking your MEK should be punishing, the power fantasy aspect would still benefit from at least being able to hold your own (if you play it smart) until your MEK arrives.

Completely being vulnerable in that period would feel like a double punishment and the better option would then probably be to just kill the player and spawn them at the nearest base imo.

This doesn't feel good;

By contrast this does;

It should feel like a direct downgrade but not like being a fish out of water.
Some abilities tied to the G-suit could help keep the suitability up. Bio enhancing nanobots/space magic in their bloodstream that can only be used for a short time.

Something like that.

An overwhelming challenge but not an unwinnable one. This would make the player feel a sense of accomplishment by surviving the timer and counteracts the feeling of just loosing a MEK. IMO.

It ought to be mandatory (as in-game lore, as well) for all pilots to always have a back-up frame. That could either be a basic, almost bare skeleton or depending on the amount of resources one is willing to invest in it, the back-up frame could be fully kitted out, either a whole other weight-class with different abilities or it could be a carbon-copy of your existing frame, a complete and literal back-up that you'd be forced to "revert" to when the original would get trashed. The factions or whoever we'd be working for would always provide a basic back-up, with only the essential parts, just enough to get the pilot back into a fight or safely out of one, but it would be up to the pilot to spend enough resources and develop the back-up frame to be more than just a simple second-wind. After which, their original frame would be waiting for them at the nearest base/garage, repaired to the extent their resources would allow).

There could be crowd-control/defensive/offensive AoE abilities tied to calling down new frames. Once the one you're using gets wrecked and you're on foot, you'd get to use your call-down or perhaps we can call it a "Reframe" ability (in-game people could refer to it as "reframing") that will let you mark the location where your back-up would land, either with a plain impact, heavily damaging what it directly hits or (with enough resources or perks invested in it) it could come down from the sky/space/satellite-garage with different effects.

Non-exclusively to any builds, the landing of the frame could be preceded by a beacon that would create an expanding shield. It would push out non-friendlies, away from the impact point and settle as a protective dome around it, for a few seconds, giving the frame time to unfold and the pilot to get in, while providing cover and a brief respite for others in the heat of battle, as it would keep hostiles away.

The impact of the frame or an orbital strike preceding it could create a shockwave with different elemental effects, in a large area around the point of impact, causing high damage and potentially weakening enemies vulnerable to a particular element the effects of which could be selected before the call-down.

The orbital strike could come in the form of e.g.: a cluster bomb that would saturate the area with a smoke screen or some nano-swarm cloud that would daze or paralyze the enemies, cause them to hallucinate or even attack one another, temporarily blind them, suspend them in the air with some super high-tech gravity trap, immobilize them...etc. whatever crowd-control effects that wouldn't cause much damage on their own, but would leave enemies helpless and exposed, while one or several pilots would get back into the fray, as they'd reframe simultanously, comboing, complementing the effects of another's call-down with their own for a devastating, tide-turning comeback.

NOTE: We should come up with a different word for the "garage", both for the stations on the surface and the station in orbit, that would be responsible for our reframing). "Garage" remained from Firefall, so there should be some new Gatestrider/Reaper terminology. A word (and words, plural) that is catchy enough.

Dunno. Cue the spitballs.

 

[liandri]

The size of omniframe armaments should be relatively consistent to the class of your frame. Something along the lines of:

Ultra-light (not a real class) - Pistols, SMGs, swords
Light - Shotguns, Assault rifles, Laser Cannons, Sniper Rifles, multiple Pistols, multiple SMGs
Medium - Plasma and Flame Cannons, Miniguns, Hammers, Missile Launchers, Missile Batteries, Two-Handed Swords
Heavy - Heavy Miniguns, Shields, Two-Handed Hammers, multiple Miniguns, multiple Cannons, multiple Missile launchers, multiple Missile Batteries
Ultra-heavy (not a real class) - Artillery Cannons, multiple Heavy Miniguns, pretty much whatever you can strap on)

The more weight and armour you put on, the more energy usage, and the less mobile you are (in the case of ultra-heavy psudeo-class, you're too beeg to fly).

When your frame is destroyed and you eject, you should only have enough survivability to allow you to call down another frame. I may be wrong, but I remember reading that you can drop a replacement from your dropship. This being used as a weapon (Titanfall, or FF's chosen drop pods) would be good, though i just know we're all going to get nailed by our own frames at least once.

With all the other players around, i would hope having a low survivability as a human would result in other players attempting to protect you until you're back in your omniframe. I don't know what the Geesuit is capable of, but I didn't notice any thrusters either.

For human weapons, I can't imagine anything more damaging than a short rifle. Perhaps a bioweapon that can poison and confuse smaller foes. Or a shock rifle on the arm to stun targets and repair other omniframes. For a more offensive approach, a drone with two shotguns strapped to it.

Dunno. Cue the spitballs.

Can... can we have a spitball-based weapon?

 

[Dam13n]

It ought to be mandatory (as in-game lore, as well) for all pilots to always have a back-up frame. That could either be a basic, almost bare skeleton or depending on the amount of resources one is willing to invest in it, the back-up frame could be fully kitted out, either a whole other weight-class with different abilities or it could be a carbon-copy of your existing frame, a complete and literal back-up that you'd be forced to "revert" to when the original would get trashed. The factions or whoever we'd be working for would always provide a basic back-up, with only the essential parts, just enough to get the pilot back into a fight or safely out of one, but it would be up to the pilot to spend enough resources and develop the back-up frame to be more than just a simple second-wind. After which, their original frame would be waiting for them at the nearest base/garage, repaired to the extent their resources would allow).

There could be crowd-control/defensive/offensive AoE abilities tied to calling down new frames. Once the one you're using gets wrecked and you're on foot, you'd get to use your call-down or perhaps we can call it a "Reframe" ability (in-game people could refer to it as "reframing") that will let you mark the location where your back-up would land, either with a plain impact, heavily damaging what it directly hits or (with enough resources or perks invested in it) it could come down from the sky/space/satellite-garage with different effects.

Non-exclusively to any builds, the landing of the frame could be preceded by a beacon that would create an expanding shield. It would push out non-friendlies, away from the impact point and settle as a protective dome around it, for a few seconds, giving the frame time to unfold and the pilot to get in, while providing cover and a brief respite for others in the heat of battle, as it would keep hostiles away.

The impact of the frame or an orbital strike preceding it could create a shockwave with different elemental effects, in a large area around the point of impact, causing high damage and potentially weakening enemies vulnerable to a particular element the effects of which could be selected before the call-down.

The orbital strike could come in the form of e.g.: a cluster bomb that would saturate the area with a smoke screen or some nano-swarm cloud that would daze or paralyze the enemies, cause them to hallucinate or even attack one another, temporarily blind them, suspend them in the air with some super high-tech gravity trap, immobilize them...etc. whatever crowd-control effects that wouldn't cause much damage on their own, but would leave enemies helpless and exposed, while one or several pilots would get back into the fray, as they'd reframe simultanously, comboing, complementing the effects of another's call-down with their own for a devastating, tide-turning comeback.

NOTE: We should come up with a different word for the "garage", both for the stations on the surface and the station in orbit, that would be responsible for our reframing). "Garage" remained from Firefall, so there should be some new Gatestrider/Reaper terminology. A word (and words, plural) that is catchy enough.

Dunno. Cue the spitballs.

Yeah agreed, the transition should be dealt with as smooth as possible imo.
I personally would also prefer a copy of my original frame, maybe a cheaper build would do as well but i think most people would prefer a backup.

Otherwise the losing of your frame doesn't really add anything to the game other then unnecessary frustration imo. Same with SOME decent combat ability during the timer until the next frame drops.

If the answer to the question "what does this add to the game?" is frustration, then it probably would be better to just spawn the player and his frame at the nearest base. If the answer is a cool mini game within the game to add another temporary layer to the combat ,then cool. I'm all for that.

 

[MattHunX]

The size of omniframe armaments should be relatively consistent to the class of your frame. Something along the lines of:

Ultra-light (not a real class) - Pistols, SMGs, swords
Light - Shotguns, Assault rifles, Laser Cannons, Sniper Rifles, multiple Pistols, multiple SMGs
Medium - Plasma and Flame Cannons, Miniguns, Hammers, Missile Launchers, Missile Batteries, Two-Handed Swords
Heavy - Heavy Miniguns, Shields, Two-Handed Hammers, multiple Miniguns, multiple Cannons, multiple Missile launchers, multiple Missile Batteries
Ultra-heavy (not a real class) - Artillery Cannons, multiple Heavy Miniguns, pretty much whatever you can strap on)

The more weight and armour you put on, the more energy usage, and the less mobile you are (in the case of ultra-heavy psudeo-class, you're too beeg to fly).

When your frame is destroyed and you eject, you should only have enough survivability to allow you to call down another frame. I may be wrong, but I remember reading that you can drop a replacement from your dropship. This being used as a weapon (Titanfall, or FF's chosen drop pods) would be good, though i just know we're all going to get nailed by our own frames at least once.

With all the other players around, i would hope having a low survivability as a human would result in other players attempting to protect you until you're back in your omniframe. I don't know what the Geesuit is capable of, but I didn't notice any thrusters either.

For human weapons, I can't imagine anything more damaging than a short rifle. Perhaps a bioweapon that can poison and confuse smaller foes. Or a shock rifle on the arm to stun targets and repair other omniframes. For a more offensive approach, a drone with two shotguns strapped to it.

Can... can we have a spitball-based weapon?

Actually, as soon as I wrote the spitball thing. I was thinking about what could be referred to as a "spitball" within the game, by the characters therein, but then...maybe it could be neat to come up with some new slang for the world that could be simple words or portmanteau even.

But, just to be clear(er), when I said high-caliber armaments on our frames, what I mean exactly is e.g.: a human-sized sniper-rifle would be a given size, in our human's hand, but the equivalent of it, either mounted on or held by our frames robotic hands would be too big for our human forms to carry, never mind use in battle. So even the caliber of such a weapon, even on the lightest of frames would actually be a rather effing big gun (compared to human-sized weapons). Which would also serve to emphasize how tough of an opponents even plain, basic Tsi-Hu would be, since they'd need such a weapon to be effectively opposed. Oh, we could blast away with our human-sized rifles or sidearms, but they would (or should) be much less effective.

As I was writing the part about the robotic hands, I got the idea for a rescue mission, where someone, some NPC's frame would be heavily damaged, their frame's legs would be blasted off...etc. and you'd need to protect them until evac would arrive. But, they would actually assist you by using both hands to pull the trigger-mechanism on their frame's weapon that could maybe only fire in one direction, so they'd tell you to draw the enemies in it's line of fire so it could still be of us and it would be some powerful gun that would still be of use to you during the mission AND...maybe they'd reward you with some specs for the weapon, afterwards.

 

[liandri]

But, just to be clear(er), when I said high-caliber armaments on our frames, what I mean exactly is e.g.: a human-sized sniper-rifle would be a given size, in our human's hand, but the equivalent of it, either mounted on or held by our frames robotic hands would be too big for our human forms to carry, never mind use in battle. So even the caliber of such a weapon, even on the lightest of frames would actually be a rather effing big gun (compared to human-sized weapons). Which would also serve to emphasize how tough of an opponents even plain, basic Tsi-Hu would be, since they'd need such a weapon to be effectively opposed. Oh, we could blast away with our human-sized rifles or sidearms, but they would (or should) be much less effective.

I completely agree. I was focused more on the omniframe classes. Depending on your frame type, your core energy and the weight of your equipment, your frames will likely be limited to what weapons they can carry. The assault rifle in the demo build is far beyond what even an exceptional human could carry, let alone fire. Humans should still carry human-sized defensive weaponry that could take down a weakened Tsihu in reasonable circumstances otherwise it wouldn't make sense to still live when your frame is destroyed. But definitely, the weapon should be a last resort, only to allow you enough time to get into another omniframe. A stunning or slowing weapon (a few people mentioned elemental, so shock and cold) would be recommended.

As I was writing the part about the robotic hands, I got the idea for a rescue mission, where someone, some NPC's frame would be heavily damaged, their frame's legs would be blasted off...etc. and you'd need to protect them until evac would arrive. But, they would actually assist you by using both hands to pull the trigger-mechanism on their frame's weapon that could maybe only fire in one direction, so they'd tell you to draw the enemies in it's line of fire so it could still be of us and it would be some powerful gun that would still be of use to you during the mission AND...maybe they'd reward you with some specs for the weapon, afterwards.

+ 1 to this mission idea. Perhaps they're stuck in hard driver mode and can't get out of their frame?

 

[MattHunX]

I completely agree. I was focused more on the omniframe classes. Depending on your frame type, your core energy and the weight of your equipment, your frames will likely be limited to what weapons they can carry. The assault rifle in the demo build is far beyond what even an exceptional human could carry, let alone fire. Humans should still carry human-sized defensive weaponry that could take down a weakened Tsihu in reasonable circumstances otherwise it wouldn't make sense to still live when your frame is destroyed. But definitely, the weapon should be a last resort, only to allow you enough time to get into another omniframe. A stunning or slowing weapon (a few people mentioned elemental, so shock and cold) would be recommended.

+ 1 to this mission idea. Perhaps they're stuck in hard driver mode and can't get out of their frame?

Well, they could get out, but they simply position themselves so they can pull the trigger, through whatever mechanism it works, provided the player is able to kite the enemy in the literal line of (potentially devastating) fire.

 

[MattHunX]

Also, I'm watching Altered Carbon, and they're using the word "decanting" that has a specific meaning within the lore of the show. So, I was thinking of terminology like that. It could be slang, formal or whatever. Just to give a bit of feel of how language and culture developed in the game's alternate history.

 

[Markolis]

Going Frameless by accident or from direct combat damage, is really mute. Its the enviroment that should kill you first, aswell of the tsi-hu ( who by my reckoning are going to be at least 10 feet tall with superior speed and anger issues!) or other significant creatures. Em8-er from the start is going to be a frozen hell ! - no pilot suit is going to save you when the ambient tempreture might be around - 100 to -200 degrees.
I can imagine the only possible save for you in those few precious seconds of life, is a friend who is very very close nearby to drop a survival pod or a stucture with life saving capabilities.

Also, if pilots are going to have offensive/defensive combat skills in the conditions of Em8-er, whats the point of a frame !! - or a tech frame rpg/fps/mmo game.

 

[liandri]

To answer that: While the players can get out of the frames we will find ourselves very squishy and generally not a match for the enemies on Em-8ER. Exactly what kind of actions and arsenal the character can use outside of the omniframe is still being decided, but at this stage no one should be expecting to have much capability to be effective in combat outside of the frames (or outside of the other vehicles if and when they get added).

Think of it this way. the main purpose of being able to get out of the Omniframe your in is to go get into another one.

I was curious to see if going frameless was a thing, this is all I found. There's no mention in the August copy of the Vision Book, but it's a very good read.

Interesting you bring up temperature. I completely forgot we're terraforming a hostile planet here. But yeah. Instant death. Arcfolded back to base.

 

[Pandagnome]

Going Frameless by accident or from direct combat damage, is really mute. Its the enviroment that should kill you first, aswell of the tsi-hu ( who by my reckoning are going to be at least 10 feet tall with superior speed and anger issues!) or other significant creatures. Em8-er from the start is going to be a frozen hell ! - no pilot suit is going to save you when the ambient tempreture might be around - 100 to -200 degrees.
I can imagine the only possible save for you in those few precious seconds of life, is a friend who is very very close nearby to drop a survival pod or a stucture with life saving capabilities.

Also, if pilots are going to have offensive/defensive combat skills in the conditions of Em8-er, whats the point of a frame !! - or a tech frame rpg/fps/mmo game.

What if the pilots had different grades of g-suits and could those g-suit grades effect the mek in anyway?

An example:

Grade A-G
Lets say you are a standard grade G-suit this is the standard issue nothing special suit.

Grade A is your top suit this may come with better hit points and slots for equipment.

This way you can prioritize if you want a good powerful mek or a good powerful pilot
the mek mainly would have the advantage.

[Grade A] Reaper Alpha suit but make mek total efficiency 82.8%
[Grade B] Beta Chroma suit but makes mek total efficiency 85.7%
[Grade C] Stryke Gamma suit but makes mek total efficiency 88.6%
[Grade D] Delta Storm suit but makes mek total efficiency 91.4%
[Grade E] Cobra suit but makes mek total efficiency 94.3%
[Grade F] Advanced tech suit but makes mek total efficiency 97.1%
[Grade G] Omni suit (standard) but makes mek total efficiency 100%

The pilot suit and their handheld weapons could be better in the Higher grade suits for pilots, but on the down side the meks would be less efficient as a trade off going that route.

Why would the efficieny of the mek be effected by a Suit's grade? Lets say that the suit uses more advanced tech and the power needed is consumed more for a higher grade suit causing a redistribution of power.

 

[Omnires]

On the idea of fighting inside the frame or outside I keep coming back to the point of the omniframes having and using a biofeedback system. Meaning the actions and movements of the pilot is translated into actions and movements to the frame just on a larger scale. Meaning there should be anything the pilots can't do outside of the frame that they can't also do inside the fame because of how biofeedback systems works. Meaning that if the pilot is a dancer the frame would also move in the same way. Meaning the skills and abilities the pilots have will have a great effect on abilities and movements of the frames. Because of how they omniframes are designed they are more like larger versions of exosuits rather something like tank or jet.

As for how effective pilots should be outside of their frames in a fight. I think it would come down to if the game has realistic weak points on enemies and how skilled you are as player at hitting those weak points or exploiting some flaw in the enemy (for example, animals that haves eyes on the sides of their head have hard time seeing things right in front of them. This a natural blind spot ((Note, this why when you walk to to animals like horses you always do so from the side because being in front of them or behind them you are in their blind spots can scare them when you pop into view right next to them.)). Or if the enemy is animal with an armored body the joints are always weakest parts of their armor because they have to have soft spots there in order to move. Plus no matter how armored something is on the outside it is still soft on the inside that different kind of attacks can affect things like the organs themselves, shockwave, soundwaves, and radiation. So how "effective" we are going to down to the biology of the enemy vs what weapons/tools we have and how smart we are in using them. Remember back in things like the ice Age Humans has to fight and kill animals mean times larger than themselves just to live. And all they was was things like rocks and sticks, be it pointy and shape rocks and sticks, but when there is a will there's a way.

On the topic of the G-suits, I always thought they was just space suits given how omniframes are able to work in space and all. And if they are spacesuits they would be more than able to keep you alive on the planet even in the middle of winter at night because there is no way the planet is going to be colder than the vacuum of space.