DevTracker

Ronyn

Commander
Staff member
Community Manager
Director of Marketing and Community
Jul 26, 2016
723
2,704
93
#30
Easy fix... Crixa doesn't sell frying pans or offensive looks.
What is offensive to one may not be offensive to another. It's subjective.
you know that darn well.

Grummz has made it clear that he don't care about age restrictions...
That's not exactly what he said...lol

The game's gonna be rated for what it's gonna be rated. If kids wants to play this game they're gonna find ways to play it either way. If Em8er ends up being a 16+ title, let it be a 16+ title dammit! Stop messing around with alternative options for underaged kids that won't care about the damn restrictions anyway.
You're going with "Stop giving these kinds of tools to parents because kids may get around them anyway"

Seriously?
 

Ronyn

Commander
Staff member
Community Manager
Director of Marketing and Community
Jul 26, 2016
723
2,704
93
#29
Hey so...If you were to become emperor of the world would you outlaw things like tinted glasses/windows, Kaleidoscope glasses, certain stain glass windows and stretchy mirrors because they allow people to alter their personal view of existing objects? ;)

@punkbuzter#6186

Whether there is technically an aspect of decentralization involved is not relevent to the actual point here. If a skin buyers goal is to have their skin seen by others, then the percentage of people who will see that skin continues to matter overall. I understand we have some hardliners, like yourself, who has taken the "EVERYONE MUST SEE IT" stance, but at this time there is no evidence that is a widely held stance.
----
Yes, any data we have from the current fanbase is subject to change when we have a much larger fanbase. It could swing in a way where people agree with you, it could swing in a way you're even more in the minority, or this topic could turn out to be barely spoke of at all. Still, we have to use the current feedback, along with our design goals, and statistics from the history games, to come to decisions for what we should act on right now. Predictions are based on logic, data and experience, but they are not infallible. Yet, we obviously have to use them, we obviously have to pick a direction. Otherwise it would be literally impossible to for a new company to develop a new IP.
----
And to answer the "Who asked for this feature?". No one asked for this specific feature in itself, this feature was brought about as a solution to the various disagreements in the community on what kind of visuals/styles/sexiness level the skins should have. When there are different desires, sometimes the only option is to go hard to one side, sometimes you can look for options to work for more than one preference.

Much like how years ago, the firefall devs couldn't decide whether the game would be first or third person, so they decided to let it be something that people could toggle between at will. BTW, not everyone was happy about that choice either. A few people actually complained that players shouldn't be able to make the choice between first and third person view at will. It's kinda like...
There will always be at least some folks who disagree with just about any feature. Now where have I heard that before.....

----
We get it, you don't like the feature. You've explained how you feel about it and you have been heard. Your "arguments", such as they were, express your feeling toward the matter and we accept it.
Your stance is noted and respected. That is about the end of that.

Now, if we get a bunch of voices also proclaiming they have a problem with the feature, that is when we have reason to reconsider it. Until then.....
 

Ronyn

Commander
Staff member
Community Manager
Director of Marketing and Community
Jul 26, 2016
723
2,704
93
#25
I see what you are saying, I just don't understand it. ....
Oh ok so by "everyone agrees" you just mean that people should be made aware of it up front, so they know what they are signing up for, and then they are effectively agreeing to it by signing in.
In that case we should be good. This toggle aspect was revealed years ago. It's mentioned in the F.A.Q., and we will make certain it's clear for people when they sign up.

That said, it could be argued that we need to make sure it's more well known to people when they go to buy skins. That is something I can take a closer look at.

If you're going to decentralize fashion, and provide players with the power to remove other player's design choices, then there's no point in buying fashion because I can do it for free client-side.....
Do not confuse "No point for you" with " no point for anyone else"

Ok. So your argument is that, if even a some small percentage of the player base uses the option to not see certain skins, this has "Decentralized fashion".
At what percentage of people using this toggle does that "decentralization of fashion" take effect? 1 percent? 5 percent? 10 percent?

If 90 percent of people aren't using the toggle, is fashion still decentralized? cause that's still a whole lot of people who would still see it. Unless, again, you want to keep insisting that EVERYONE has to be forced to see your custom character.

Question is, are you ready to fight against the modding community?
We can't actually stop certain stuff that modders will do client side.
The only question we have to ask is whether we are providing enough value to enough people to buy skins to make them effective money makers to keep the game running. Considering how many people are fine or even happy with this toggle feature so far, we have no reason to think that'll be a problem.

Or, you keep the button and deal with the problems you create. Waste your resources into defending a button instead of making developments to the game. I'm sure the community would approve knowing their money spent is going to such trivial matters instead of fixing bugs for example...
How do you define what is Trivial?
When putting in a feature, devs have to compare the workload it takes to put in, with the potential sales/earnings it will create. Based on previous trends in these kinds of choice based options, it is more likely to be a benefit to the games overall success than a hinderance.
 

Ronyn

Commander
Staff member
Community Manager
Director of Marketing and Community
Jul 26, 2016
723
2,704
93
#21
I don't mind things like that, if it is something everyone agrees to going in.
Unfortunately the "Everyone agrees to" aspect isn't a viable option.
That is not likely to happen on anything, let alone something like this.

Although what is flagged and why it is flagged is always something that is going to be a focus point for me if I can't understand the logic behind it.
That's the thing. Different people have such different view points on stuff, we aren't always going to understand the logic behind someone else choice.

Offering a variety of toggle options is trying to give as much variance in choice as possible.
 
Likes: Pandagnome

Ronyn

Commander
Staff member
Community Manager
Director of Marketing and Community
Jul 26, 2016
723
2,704
93
#19
Let me go ahead and speak for myself for a minute.
I play lots of games where skins are for sale. I buy a whole lot, I mean a whole lot, of skins.
I do it because I like to see my character to look a certain way. I even swap skins based on my mood or character build. I fill out all tabs on the visuals menu when I can. I am seriously into this.
I like to walk around in MMO's and have people compliment my outfit. Oh yeah, I do.
I am literally the kind of customer that makes games rich for having cool visual options.
Now then, do I care whether other people were to see my character as just the base version of it...
not really. I am happy enough that I look the way I want to when I look at myself.
Is it more fun if other people see it? Yes, as I said the compliments are nice. But is it so dire that I won't buy skins if some percentage of other people can opt to not see it? nope. Cause I still get to look at my character looking the way I want them to. That's just me though. I'm allowed to feel this way.
I understand other folks will feel differently.

TLDR
To recap. I whale for skins. While I enjoy when other people see my custom character, don't care that much if other people don't see it.

choosing to censor how players look also like censor free speech.
YOU choosing not to see me in my awesome custom skin is not censoring ME from seeing myself in my awesome custom skin. When you can change my outfit on my screen we can talk about censorship, until then... You are actually talking about you being able to make me see something.

So then, we are coming to the end of this. Cause if you can't stay on point I'm going to just remove myself from the discussion and let it be whatever it is. lol

Ok how do I put this.
Honestly everything you said is just another version of what you already said, that I already countered. You're still talking around the issue, and adding new layers of fluff.
With the latest post you've added the assumption that we don't have any analytics to support this kind of tool-for-parents feature (for example: how things like blood/sweat toggle effect a games sales), you suggest that offering tools is controlling how parents do their job (when it is LITERALLY THE OPPOSITE of that), you ignore the other reason people may not want to see certain skins (like keeping the visuals lore accurate) and you play the victim like you aren't allowed to say you don't like a feature. Which, again, I acknowledged that not everyone will like it, and that is ok. You are allowed to not like it.

What are you really saying?
This boils down to you want EVERYONE else, to see your character the way you want them to.
You don't want anyone to be able to be able to even play the game, unless they have to see your character the way you made it. Doesn't appear to matter to you what percentage of people would even use the feature, nope. (cause it would likely be pretty small, historically it's the option of stuff like this that has more impact than the use of it) According to you, EVERYONE has to see your character whether they like the lore breaks, the super sexy, or whatever. You paid for those skins, other people seeing the skins brings value to you personally, if those other people feel value comes from games where they have more tools to make their own choices on what they see, you don't care. EVERYONE's gotta see your custom character.

That's fine. You can take that stance. You're allowed to feel that way.
Now YOU have to understand that other folks will feel differently.

Which brings me, once again, to the same old point.
No feature is perfect for every preference.