All of this has been said and re said.
I'm about to lock this thread for being circular and useless.
I'll give it a few hours to see if anything new is brought to the table, otherwise everyone will have to just let it be.
I'm about to lock this thread for being circular and useless.
I'll give it a few hours to see if anything new is brought to the table, otherwise everyone will have to just let it be.
Likes:
Pandagnome and Mahdi
Ok so there we have it. They do exist. That was my point all along.
But then you say they don't care about their projection on others, ok. Interesting.
Earlier in this thread, didn't you say something like "if people don't like the skins in the game they can just not play"?, and "if parents don't want their kids to play a game they should just not let them play"
So why is "if people don't like the toggle aspect they can just not play" any different?
Ok.
BUT to be fair, speaking from a purely mathematical/statistics context: we don't have any reliable metrics for gamers as a whole on an issue like this because it hasn't been brought up to them. Speculation is not data. We can only infer what it would be based on how other personal toggle features have done, and even that only takes us so far.
In reality, it's only the portion of the EM-8er fanbase who noticed, and then only the few who have spoken up about it so far. Out of that sample group who have spoken up, most are fine with it or even for it. Very few have made any statement against it. Again, speculation about what people might say if they did speak is not data. We can't do anything with that.
Think about what you just said.
You could make that same blanket argument against any new feature, but by itself it holds no value.
Every feature (mechanic and genre) that is common now, was once brand new and never before seen.
For every new feature it's the same story.
The industry survived without it for a while, sometimes years, sometimes decades, and then it got created. Someone somewhere did it for the first time, then it was no longer new.
If you want to stop the creation of a new feature, of any kind, what you have to provide is a reason to think that enough people won't like it, that it would limit the games success. BUT by your own argument, you think it's half and half on either side, and that most people won't care much.
Do what is best for your own happiness.
But then you say they don't care about their projection on others, ok. Interesting.
Earlier in this thread, didn't you say something like "if people don't like the skins in the game they can just not play"?, and "if parents don't want their kids to play a game they should just not let them play"
So why is "if people don't like the toggle aspect they can just not play" any different?
Ok.
BUT to be fair, speaking from a purely mathematical/statistics context: we don't have any reliable metrics for gamers as a whole on an issue like this because it hasn't been brought up to them. Speculation is not data. We can only infer what it would be based on how other personal toggle features have done, and even that only takes us so far.
In reality, it's only the portion of the EM-8er fanbase who noticed, and then only the few who have spoken up about it so far. Out of that sample group who have spoken up, most are fine with it or even for it. Very few have made any statement against it. Again, speculation about what people might say if they did speak is not data. We can't do anything with that.
Think about what you just said.
You could make that same blanket argument against any new feature, but by itself it holds no value.
Every feature (mechanic and genre) that is common now, was once brand new and never before seen.
For every new feature it's the same story.
The industry survived without it for a while, sometimes years, sometimes decades, and then it got created. Someone somewhere did it for the first time, then it was no longer new.
If you want to stop the creation of a new feature, of any kind, what you have to provide is a reason to think that enough people won't like it, that it would limit the games success. BUT by your own argument, you think it's half and half on either side, and that most people won't care much.
Do what is best for your own happiness.
@punkbuzter#6186
I meant what now? You expect a what now? WOW! lol.
OK Hmmmmm.
Let's try it from simpler angle.
Here are some actual perspectives. paraphrased from things that real life people have expressed on over the years.
Person A says: I like the skin toggles. They make me feel like I can choose what I have to look at, therefore I feel more comfortable playing the game and paying for skins, because I can do my own thing. look how I want to, without having to see stuff I don't like/want or feel is appropriate for my household. This is a good idea I have never seen before. It brings value to my experience.
Person B says: I do not like the skin toggles. They make me feel uncomfortable paying for skins, because I do not like the idea that other people can decide to not see what I made. For me, it is important that other people cannot block out my personal expression. This is a bad new idea that is not needed. It takes value away from my experience.
------------------------------------
So then, punkbuster, I have a few questions for you. Please answer them directly and succinctly-
Is your argument that
1: Person A does not exist/is made up.
2: There are way more person B's than person A's out there, we just haven't heard from.
3: Person B is objectively "correct" and so person A's viewpoint is simply wrong and therefore irrelevant.
I meant what now? You expect a what now? WOW! lol.
OK Hmmmmm.
Let's try it from simpler angle.
Here are some actual perspectives. paraphrased from things that real life people have expressed on over the years.
Person A says: I like the skin toggles. They make me feel like I can choose what I have to look at, therefore I feel more comfortable playing the game and paying for skins, because I can do my own thing. look how I want to, without having to see stuff I don't like/want or feel is appropriate for my household. This is a good idea I have never seen before. It brings value to my experience.
Person B says: I do not like the skin toggles. They make me feel uncomfortable paying for skins, because I do not like the idea that other people can decide to not see what I made. For me, it is important that other people cannot block out my personal expression. This is a bad new idea that is not needed. It takes value away from my experience.
------------------------------------
So then, punkbuster, I have a few questions for you. Please answer them directly and succinctly-
Is your argument that
1: Person A does not exist/is made up.
2: There are way more person B's than person A's out there, we just haven't heard from.
3: Person B is objectively "correct" and so person A's viewpoint is simply wrong and therefore irrelevant.
I'm not going to retread the same information again.
So if you don't see a response in this specific message, it's because it's already in a previous reply.
Look I get it. You believe you "won" the argument. It's not like people are always going to come to a place where everyone agrees with the outcome or thought processes.
Agree to disagree.
Could you clarify what you are referring to with this?
Honestly the issue of Em-8er's "sexy skins", and whether we should or shouldn't have them, leading to what we should do about it from somebodies perspective, has come up so many times over the years. It would be hard to remember how many times, how many people, or at which point the toggle feature was brought forward as a solution.
Do what you feel is best for you man.
When the rules about how we deal with client side mods go live, we will find out if it clashes with what you end up doing or not.
So if you don't see a response in this specific message, it's because it's already in a previous reply.
Look I get it. You believe you "won" the argument. It's not like people are always going to come to a place where everyone agrees with the outcome or thought processes.
Agree to disagree.
Could you clarify what you are referring to with this?
Honestly the issue of Em-8er's "sexy skins", and whether we should or shouldn't have them, leading to what we should do about it from somebodies perspective, has come up so many times over the years. It would be hard to remember how many times, how many people, or at which point the toggle feature was brought forward as a solution.
Do what you feel is best for you man.
When the rules about how we deal with client side mods go live, we will find out if it clashes with what you end up doing or not.