DevTracker

[Ronyn]

1. They do exist... But it's obvious that person A don't care about their projection to others.

Ok so there we have it. They do exist. That was my point all along.

But then you say they don't care about their projection on others, ok. Interesting.
Earlier in this thread, didn't you say something like "if people don't like the skins in the game they can just not play"?, and "if parents don't want their kids to play a game they should just not let them play"

So why is "if people don't like the toggle aspect they can just not play" any different?

2. Absolutely not. I'd say it's more or less an equal amount. Most people don't care, they just want to play.

Ok.

BUT to be fair, speaking from a purely mathematical/statistics context: we don't have any reliable metrics for gamers as a whole on an issue like this because it hasn't been brought up to them. Speculation is not data. We can only infer what it would be based on how other personal toggle features have done, and even that only takes us so far.

In reality, it's only the portion of the EM-8er fanbase who noticed, and then only the few who have spoken up about it so far. Out of that sample group who have spoken up, most are fine with it or even for it. Very few have made any statement against it. Again, speculation about what people might say if they did speak is not data. We can't do anything with that.

3. Yes. Such has been the way since the dawn of gaming, yet people have played these games anyway.
Isn't that strange?

Think about what you just said.
You could make that same blanket argument against any new feature, but by itself it holds no value.
Every feature (mechanic and genre) that is common now, was once brand new and never before seen.
For every new feature it's the same story.
The industry survived without it for a while, sometimes years, sometimes decades, and then it got created. Someone somewhere did it for the first time, then it was no longer new.

If you want to stop the creation of a new feature, of any kind, what you have to provide is a reason to think that enough people won't like it, that it would limit the games success. BUT by your own argument, you think it's half and half on either side, and that most people won't care much.

1
Fear not. I have decided to quit Em8er for good once Grummz speaks up about this matter during next CC. I'll delete myself out of here because it is obvious that my values directly collides with Crixa's interests.
As I said earlier, I have lived without all the new MMOs for a decade and I can continue to do so. Thought Em8er was the one to bring me back, but it is clear to me now that it is not. So you guys go ahead and give players the power to mute people's skins as much as you want, keep covering up the characters with more enclosed frames. I wish this project good luck, and hopefully not another Zingo disturbing your piece.

Do what is best for your own happiness.

 

[Ronyn]

@punkbuzter#6186
I meant what now? You expect a what now? WOW! lol.
OK Hmmmmm.

Let's try it from simpler angle.
Here are some actual perspectives. paraphrased from things that real life people have expressed on over the years.

Person A says: I like the skin toggles. They make me feel like I can choose what I have to look at, therefore I feel more comfortable playing the game and paying for skins, because I can do my own thing. look how I want to, without having to see stuff I don't like/want or feel is appropriate for my household. This is a good idea I have never seen before. It brings value to my experience.

Person B says: I do not like the skin toggles. They make me feel uncomfortable paying for skins, because I do not like the idea that other people can decide to not see what I made. For me, it is important that other people cannot block out my personal expression. This is a bad new idea that is not needed. It takes value away from my experience.

------------------------------------

So then, punkbuster, I have a few questions for you. Please answer them directly and succinctly-
Is your argument that
1: Person A does not exist/is made up.
2: There are way more person B's than person A's out there, we just haven't heard from.
3: Person B is objectively "correct" and so person A's viewpoint is simply wrong and therefore irrelevant.

 

[Ronyn]

...

I'm not going to retread the same information again.
So if you don't see a response in this specific message, it's because it's already in a previous reply.
Look I get it. You believe you "won" the argument. It's not like people are always going to come to a place where everyone agrees with the outcome or thought processes.
Agree to disagree.

Apparently it was enough to give the devs of Em8er split thoughts, and you guys had to toss a coin.

Could you clarify what you are referring to with this?

Where is the old discussions? How many people did it take for you to add it

Honestly the issue of Em-8er's "sexy skins", and whether we should or shouldn't have them, leading to what we should do about it from somebodies perspective, has come up so many times over the years. It would be hard to remember how many times, how many people, or at which point the toggle feature was brought forward as a solution.

If you're gonna be banning people for modding and 3rd party skin injections in the future, you may as well just ban me already because I will not support a game with this feature. I paid for the game, so if I'm not banned, I'll be playing like anyone else but at my own terms, namely by custom injections. Maybe I'll even learn to design my own skins.
I have lived without MMOs for a decade tho, and I can continue to do so without Em8er if I'm banned.

Do what you feel is best for you man.
When the rules about how we deal with client side mods go live, we will find out if it clashes with what you end up doing or not.

 

[Ronyn]

I hope it's not too much additional work for the devs, it sounds like the workload for these skins may be doubled.

Oh my goodness no.
If we were literally making different versions of each skin it would be, thats not how you tackle something like this.

Personally, I've always seen games as a playground with rules. Here is the map, here are all the skins, here's what you can do... now do with it, what you will. And what happens, is the players adapt to what is available and then a healthy ecosystem comes into existence. Players see one another for what they are, and they judge each other based on the decisions that they make.

I worry... worry might be a strong word, but I can't help but wonder if adding these filters will distort the ecosystem.

The real world is the ultimate game, and we experience it for exactly what it is.

If I put a filter onto my game that blocks out ALL of the SEXY skins, and then I join up with a guild of players who're all wearing very revealing... extremely sexy skins... for whatever reasons they have, and for whatever intentions they may have. I would be none the wiser.

People make decisions based on what they perceive, and if we start turning blind eyes to things by toggling over what we can/can't see, we might make some mistakes or some decisions that we typically would not. We might end up in some circles we would not typically tend to involve ourselves with.

Interesting thought.
A new future of unexcepted, unseen threats.
Though I'd wager, anyone with "no sexy skins" selected, had better examine why a guild would be full of people all in the default skin. lol

 

[Ronyn]

But I have to wonder, if a skin becomes so out of touch with the central theme, let's take "sexiness" as an example... at what point does the "sexiness" become worthy of having a toggle?

Yep that is a good question.
We will do our best to break things down into categories, to give as much clarity in the controls as we can.
It's not an exact science nor will it be a perfect system. The goal is that is in improvement on personal choice, not a final solution to end all and be all.