Worries about gameplay...

[Kouyioue]

They have no efficacy or strategic reason for you to have needed to provide your IQ:

Besides, it's more intimidating to never provide it

 

[Aphaz]

i was thinking about how to make a "job board that would be actually be nice to have" and came up with this...we can add a "handyman of the month" title to the leaderboard


The (Daily) Job(s) Board

First fo all i want to say that I'm not familiar with computer programing and thus not shure that what i've come up with could be a viable option. That said I like the idea of job(s) boards and believe they could be creatively used to add content that coud be interesting (the job board in FF was a fail because of how it was done, imo).

This is (i believe) how it could be dun to provide fun and not be repetitive. what is needed, are 3 random tables and some guide lines. This type of job board is "tied" to the player's account (each player gets his/her own daily job doard every day).

1. Random table - Number of Jobs:

Description: Every POI/Player built Outpost will have a number of NPCs proportionate to it's size or other factors. Those NPCs will ofteh be either base personel, or common "citizens". they are the ones who provide jobs.

Function: Every day the game rolls a random number from 1 to (max.) number of NPCs. This is the "ammount of work" that the player gets in that specific POI for that day. The name of the NPC offering the job and type (name only) are displayed on the job board (for reasons that will be explained later). If players decide to take the job, then they are given "waypoint/coordinates" to the NPC in question.

2. & 3. Random table - Type of job & Job Variations:

Type of Job - Description: Every NPC will post a random type of job every day, so even if the same NPC keeps giving out jobs, the jobs themselves will almost always be different ones.

Type of Job - Function: Every day the game rolls a random type of job for each NPC separatly in any given Poi/Job board. The type rolled (and Job variation) determine the "job riquested" (to cut costs of voice overs, you could make that all in written text, and then maybe some day add voice overs)

Possible types of jobs qould include (but not be limited to):

- Fetch - The player is tasked with traveling to a certain location and returning with the object of the job back to the job giver for reward.

- Kill/Exterminate - The player is tasked with terminating a target/targets to complete the job. There is no need for the player to return to the job giver for reward.

- Guard - The player is tasked with guarding a specific person/object from attackers. The person/object is static in nature and will remain in place untill job completion/failure. There is no need for the player to return to the job giver for reward.

- Escort - The player is tasked with guarding a specific person/object from attackers. The person/object is not static in nature and will require that the player guards the person/object for the whole trip to complete the job. There is no need for the player to return to the job giver for reward.

- Deliver - The player is tasked with delivering an object/item to a specific location to complete the job. There is no need for the player to return to the job giver for reward.

- Repair - The player is tasked with transporting a specific object/item to a set location (or number of locations) and perform some kind of restoring job to earn reward. There is no need for the player to return to the job giver for reward.

- Recon - The player is tasked with traveling to a specific location and observe/spy (only, no engagement!) at the target(s) enemy/location. Depending on the job, the player may be required to return to job giver for a reward.

- NPC Specific - This could be multy purpose jobs that are specific to the NPC occupation. For exapmle, an engineer could ask the player for a Fetch & Repair sort of job where the player would have to travel to a speific location to obtain a certain item that would be then used o repair something somewhere else. This types of jobs could be only allowed for NPCs with specific jobs (such as: engineer, medic, trader, security officer...etc.), thus limiting thier max. number as those would be jobs that are worth a bit more than normal types as more effort is involved.

The Circle Area(s) - This literally represents the "required distance that the player has to travel to reach the job's destination". It is divided into 3 categories:

- Inner Circle - The inner circle represents a random location wihin 500m radius of the citty/outpost, including the citty/outpost.

- Outer Circle - The outer circle is a random location 501m - 1500/2000m radius around the citty/outpost.

- Long Haul - The long haul is a random location 2001m - "anywhere on map" radius around the citty/outpost (or something along those lines... XD).

 

[Aphaz]

Job Variation - Description: The nature of the job may vary depending upon The Circle Area that the job requires the player to travel to.

Job Variation - Function: When the game rolls which type ob job an NPC is going to give, it then rolls in which circle area the job will take place thus further defining the job required. Some (not all!) of the possible variations could be:

- Fetch -

Inner circle: collect a set number of objects/items within the citty/outpost (or a random location just

outside outer walls).

Outer circle: scavenge around a set number of ruins at different locations 400m apart each

within outer circle.

Long haul: procure item(s) from a random citty/outpost within long haul area.

- Kill/Exterminate -

Inner circle: dispose of suspicious human/humanoid within the citty/outpost (coud be made to have

the player use his/her pilot avatar as the mek is "undriveable inside citty limits" XD ).

Outer circle: hunt down enemy unit/bio menace (cute animals and stuff XD) at specific (random)

location within outer circle area.

Long haul: similar to outer circle but with a longer distance to travel...

- Guard -

Inner circle: guard a specific Npc/location within citty/outpost (or a random location just outside

outer walls).

Outer circle: guard a THMPR drill site at a random location within outer circle area.

Long haul: guard a THMPR site/Watchtower at a random/specific location within long haul area.

- Escort -

Inner circle: guard an NPC within the citty/outpost (or a random location just outside outer walls)

from point A to B, alive ofc.

Outer circle: Guard a THMPR as it travels to and/or from a dig site. Point A and B may differ acording

to type of escort. One point is a random location within the outer circle area while the other is at

the nearest point possible to the inner circle's outer edge, thus usually forming a bee-line the

player must travel while doing guard duty.

Long haul: Similar to outer circle jobs this may include longer THMPR escort or caravan escort jobs.

as with outer circle area, long haul area escorts also have point A and B (which may change

depending on escort To or From), but differently from outer circle, both are randomly determined.

One point is within a random location in the long haul area, while the other point is at a randon

location in the outer circle area (a "max distance allowed sub rule" could be added to prevent

unlogical solutions like going from 1 place to the other side of the map (through the citty) type of

situation).

- Deliver -

Inner circle: deliver item/object from 1 NPC to another NPC within the citty/outpost (or a random

location just outside of the outer walls).

Outer circle: deliver item/object from NPC to target NPC/location within a random location inside the

outer circle area.

Long haul: deliver item/object from NPC to target NPC/location within a random location inside the

long haul area.

- Repair -

Inner circle: repair equipment/instalation(s) within the citty/outpost (or a random location just

outside outer walls).

Outer circle: repair equipment/instalations/defences at a random location within outer circle area.

Long haul: repair equipment/instalations/defences/caravan at a random location within outer circle

area.

- Recon -

Inner circle: travel to random location(s) at the outer edge of of inner circle area and observe

location(s)/spy on enemy(ies). Report back or not as per job description.

Outer Circle: travel to random location(s) at the outer edge of the outer circle area and observe

location(s)/spy on enemy(ies). Report back or not as per job description.

Long haul: travel to random location(s) in the long haul area and observe location(s)/spy on

enemy(ies). Report back or not as per job description.


- NPC Specific - As these jobs usually combine the attributes of 2 different job types, target

location(s) may be chosen from 2 different circle areas (within reasonable distance...).

(The Big One: The only big problem I see is in how to make the game "NOT send players into IMPASSABLE TERRAIN or INACCESSIBLE BUILDINGS".)

Job Dificoulty Tier - A job dificoulty Tier refers to the number of players inside the squad/platoon that are attempting the job and increase the dificoulty in some (logical) way like increase number of enemies or/and increase their (the enemies') Tier. A +1 Tier/player in squad (platoon) modifier could be applied in some way if possible.

Note however that only the player that accepts/starts the job will be given a waypoint in the jobs/assignments window, by the job's "name". Players in the same squad/platoon will only have job name in the job window. even if the player that accepted/started the job posts a (;loc) in chat (so to speak), unless the starting player arrives within a certain distance, or brings the required item/object or something, the job will not start even if all other players from the squad/platoon gather at the specified location (to prevent "faster players" from abusing squad/platoon jobs)

"Harvesting Friendship" - I find that "Harvesting Friendship" is often misused to pigeonhole players into "forced farming", and with an illogical reason to boot..."The Purple Items". Often players get access to better quality items only if they have reached a specific "friendship level" which is totally illogical, as any merchant "worth his/her salt" will tell you that "u don't survive by choosing customers on ember". Thus my take on "friendship farming" would go along these lines:

- Any and All Tiers of items/goods/services are available to Any player that can afford to pay for

them.

- Farming friendship gives the player a small %/Tier discount on all purchased goods/services.

- Farming friendship gives the player a small %/Tier increase on all goods sold

- Farming friendship gives the player a +1/Tier to the MINIMUM number of jobs per day (The "Hero of the town" gets more work than a total stranger). All player start at Tier 0 friendship, so a player with Tier 3 friendship in a city/outpost with 10 NPCs would get from 4 - 10 jobs per day on the job board of that POI.

IMO, this way friendship harvesting could be used to give players more to do but without forcing them to do so.

 

[BunnyHunny]

How about addressing my points...
Since you seem to be unable to do so, i will try to help you by picking them apart.

Your suggestion would promote risking the death of players, because healing low hp targets would grant a higher reward.
Not a good idea. [...]
Healers are supposed to be reliable supporters, not to only heal you, when they gain the most from it.

With your system, every raging potato would be able to accumulate points and get good rewards by simply playing forever.

This would take away any way of rewarding skill through the point system.

It allows every noob to get any kind of reward, if they just play long enough.
It also rewards you for risking your health.
That is bad.
[...]
Skill would be close to irrelevant with your suggested reward system.
Playtime would beat everything.

People will try their hardest to find a way to accumulate as many points as possible, so they will NOT go as they please (or they will go, but stay logged in and run a bot) to keep the points.

If rewards accumulate, logging off or going afk can kill off huge amounts of progress (when returning, you have to get back to that high reward level).
Playing only for a short time would be guaranteed to grant a shit reward, because not many points could be accumulated.
Uninterrupted playtime would be the single most important thing when it comes to good rewards and lead to people playing for unhealthy long times.

players will find a way to not lose their points while being afk.
If they don't find a way, they are punished for going afk.

Do not rephrase what i just said and sell it as your own argument against me (which is what the last post i responded to was mainly made up of).
Do not change the meaning of what i say by being subjective.
Do not lie about what you or i said earlier, in order to make it look like you have a point.
Do not make baseless claims and sell them as an argument.

Dismantle my points with reason.
I'll be waiting.

If you just hate to be wrong, so much, that you are unable to admit it, you should probably not be sharing your ideas with anyone.

 

[Aphaz]

wow...flame fest...wasn't this thread named worries about gameplay, as in "let's talk about how can we improve gameplay so ember becomes awesome" and Not "let's rage at each other who's smartestest and who's the mostestest right..."

 

[Aphaz]

also, instead of just suggesting something, try to describe in some detail what you think should be made and why (this was said in general and NOT to anyone in particular, FYI)


i understand we're all worried ...hence the thread, but raging at each other or demanding something be done out of fear of repetittion will get us nowhere...not to mention all we CAN do is SUGGEST...it Grummz that DECIDES...right?

 

[BunnyHunny]

wow...flame fest...wasn't this thread named worries about gameplay, as in "let's talk about how can we improve gameplay so ember becomes awesome" and Not "let's rage at each other who's smartestest and who's the mostestest right..."

Imagine:
>>Person A makes a suggestion.
>>Person B criticizes the suggestion by making things up.

The behavior of B does not further the discussion.
But it could make you question their intelligence and their intentions.


Other scenario:
>>Person A makes a suggestion that is flawed.
>>Person B is reasonable, points out the flaws and explains why they are flaws.
>>Person A answers by ignoring the points and criticizing B for something he has not actually said.

The behavior of A does not further the discussion.
But it could make you question their intelligence and their intentions.

I thought that this discussion was actually about what could be a good idea to implement into the game,
but when people are
-ignoring criticism,
-obviously avoiding any reasonable discussion,
-lying and making things up to defend their own, and attack other's ideas,
it seems that it is (for these people) more about trying desperately to appear to be correct, than actually furthering the discussion.

 

[Degiance]

I wouldn't claim to be objective while constantly trying to push my idea as the "only good idea" while dismissing valid points and concerns raised by others. Without raising a valid or okay counter suggestion how to make it work or improve upon the original idea. Thus making it constructive dialogue, without turning it in to a pointless snipping match that doesn't do any good to anybody. ( Sorta tired of seeing the confrontational attidute and outright scorn.. But then again attidutes change but personality flaws that brings out this over confrontational hybris each time someone responds or says something is not a healthy way of having a conversation with other people. Granted i should take in mind that text leaves out the nuance of speech so it's hard to tell if someone is actually angry or calm while writting, but if people keep pointing it out that your way of writting is very hostile and pushy. You should dial it down a little. )

i understand we're all worried ...hence the thread, but raging at each other or demanding something be done out of fear of repetittion will get us nowhere...not to mention all we CAN do is SUGGEST...it Grummz that DECIDES...right?

You hit the nail on the head there ^^

Only if i could do a good Yoda voice and say something like:"Fear leads to dark side... And crappy games like over repetative cash cow games like CoD."

 

[BunnyHunny]

I wouldn't claim to be objective while constantly trying to push my idea as the "only good idea" while dismissing valid points and concerns raised by others.

In case you are addressing me (which i will just assume, since you seem to like what the others write):
I am doing neither of those things.

When an idea is good, it is a good idea, no matter who came up with it, or who shared it first.
I am sure that there are flaws in my suggestions.
I would be happy about somebody point them out (instead of making things up) and suggesting improvements.

I am actively asking for valid points against my suggestions, but what i have seen people throw at me so far, was not valid criticism.

If you think that there were valid points... All the text is still there.
Please point them out.
(this is where it usually fails)

Thus making it constructive dialogue, without turning it in to a pointless snipping match that doesn't do any good to anybody. ( Sorta tired of seeing the confrontational attidute and outright scorn..

I am repeatedly asking for constructive criticism.
People make things up and try it with deception, instead.
(if you think there was proper criticism towards my points, point it out)

If you are tired of seeing scorn, ask people to stop lying and deceiving, instead of slapping a like on it.

Probably, we should be having a discussion in voice, one day.

 

[Degiance]

You should take a break, before you blow a casket. Like seriously take a moment to relax and with time read what you have written and the responses you gotten.

You tend to get what you give.

 

[BunnyHunny]

You tend to get what you give.

This works in both directions.

I am interested in making something actually useful out of this discussion.
Now where are the valid points and concerns you were talking about?

 

[Degiance]

- Recon -

Inner circle: travel to random location(s) at the outer edge of of inner circle area and observe

location(s)/spy on enemy(ies). Report back or not as per job description.

Outer Circle: travel to random location(s) at the outer edge of the outer circle area and observe

location(s)/spy on enemy(ies). Report back or not as per job description.

Long haul: travel to random location(s) in the long haul area and observe location(s)/spy on

enemy(ies). Report back or not as per job description.

Did you have something like this in mind?
Homefront The Revolution had this smartphone mechanic that you actually had to take pictures of the enemy troops in-game with the smartphone camera to complete certain jobs (Like taking pictures of the civilians walking in the broken down streets, or taking pictures of the APC's on patrol, sniper nests etc.).

If Em-8er gives the option of having like a UAV drone with a photograph option (I think i suggested it on the advanced screenshot topic for Selfie option and video capture etc..).
Would be awesome to have missions or tasks like that with the added bonus of messing around with a drone, but it could be something basic like binoculars with zoom function aswell and just tagging targets you were tasked to tag. If you throw in added bonus like lore about the things your spying/gathering intelligence on, i can see myself doing it but i guess it would need to have some of threat factor to those not so keen in reading. (Get too close or forget to take off the flash function as you snap a picture... Hell breaks loose /bad joke suggestion )

 

[Ronyn]

For those hoping to get their suggestions read by the devs...
It's worth noting that the more peaceful the discussion/disagreements a thread has, the higher chance of a dev actually reading it all the way through. While the opposite is also true.

 

[zdoofop]

Did you have something like this in mind?
Homefront The Revolution had this smartphone mechanic that you actually had to take pictures of the enemy troops in-game with the smartphone camera to complete certain jobs (Like taking pictures of the civilians walking in the broken down streets, or taking pictures of the APC's on patrol, sniper nests etc.).

If Em-8er gives the option of having like a UAV drone with a photograph option (I think i suggested it on the advanced screenshot topic for Selfie option and video capture etc..).
Would be awesome to have missions or tasks like that with the added bonus of messing around with a drone, but it could be something basic like binoculars with zoom function aswell and just tagging targets you were tasked to tag. If you throw in added bonus like lore about the things your spying/gathering intelligence on, i can see myself doing it but i guess it would need to have some of threat factor to those not so keen in reading. (Get too close or forget to take off the flash function as you snap a picture... Hell breaks loose /bad joke suggestion )

I. Love. This.

 

[Aphaz]

For those hoping to get their suggestions read by the devs...
It's worth noting that the more peaceful the discussion/disagreements a thread has, the higher chance of a dev actually reading it all the way through. While the opposite is also true.

i did, but so far no luck

just trying to find out if i'm going in the right direction...with what i did (helps to focus effort )
(https://forums.em8er.com/threads/abilities-omniprotocols-armor-stuff.523/)

 

[Ronyn]

i did, but so far no luck

Who is to say.....Even if a dev reads a thread doesn't necessarily mean they'll post in it.
You just keep those ideas coming, and keep that positive attitude. It does get noticed.

 

[Uggeli]

i just hope this wont be that horisontal progression bullshit

 

[Torgue_Joey]

i just hope this wont be that horisontal progression bullshit

BAD NEWS FOR YOU, KIDDO.
THERE WILL BE HORIZONTAL PROGRESSION. ONLY A VERY SMALL MINOR VERTICAL PROGRESSION.
NO LEVEL NUMBERS. NO NUMBER CRANKING. NO UPS, JUST FORWARD.
JUST NEW UNLOCKS. NEW ABILITY. NEW GEARS. NEW MODULE. NEW WEAPONS. NEW WEAPON PARTS. NEW EQUIPMENT.

 

[Ronyn]

i just hope this wont be that horisontal progression bullshit

There will be some amount of direct increase in power from player progression. Though, overall, there will be far more expanding options (horizontal progression) than there will be gaining direct power (vertical progression).

If that doesn't sound interesting to you, please explain why and we can find out of that is something we can address or if we are just going in a direction that doesn't work for you.

 

[Uggeli]

whats the point of new weapons and gear if it wont make you more powerfull?