Worries about gameplay...

Should there be some sort of competitive aspect to the game?

  • Yes

  • No


Results are only viewable after voting.

PIghead Elderberry

Well-Known Member
JUMBO KAIJU SLAYER
Jun 4, 2017
170
292
63
CA USA
#21
Right there with you. I believe resources for top tier gear should be a challenge to get and limited based on world contribution and expansion. But everything below that and bases should be quick to get because we are looking to get whooped a lot by a tough AI race. So rebuilding can't be too penalizing.
That also works well with balancing the game depending upon the number of players online. If there aren't many people online, there can still be plenty of things to accomplish for the lower tier resources and base needs. Making sure these lower tier (read: lower player count) aspects are always in good demand for base reconstruction etc. etc. ensures that players online at off hours still feel the reward factor.

When there are tons of players online, then there will be bigger battles, but there also will be opportunities to get the rarer resources which might not otherwise pop up with a super low server load.

THMPR resource gathering can be the exception, where even with low server population if people group up, they can still push a THMPR to the extreme and get the big battle and big rewards...
 
Likes: Mahdi

BunnyHunny

Deepscanner
Aug 20, 2016
126
69
28
#22
1. Make it a veeeeeery long process to be able to get to top tier, in such a way that even is someone gets all his frames to top tier, it will take him some years.....and this SUCKS! You will lose casual players as they wont feel they are progressing in the game at all and infuriate active players as grinding will become law.
Yes this sucks indeed.
Long grinds reward only those who invest lots of time. Skill becomes less relevant (unless skill massively increases rewards) and progress becomes boring.

2. Make some sort of competitive. Make players compete in something, in order to make them want to get better gear and, after they got everything, to want to come back to the game and prove over and over they are the best.
Yes please.

One way you cound do this and NOT be PVP is kinda like a arena: 2 teams of 5 (or more) players take on..let's say a cat. 3 Kaiju. First team that kills it wins (reward, currency, maybe some decal etc). Could also make it a spectator "sport" have a arena filled with other players, maybe new players that can learn from the pros in the arena.

There could be tournaments and events and you dont have to recaliber the frames for PVP, as the players will fight a Kaiju.
MK said that there is no plan on making any instanced content at all and that it would be hard on the budged.
However, i do think that some kind of instanced content is almost a must have, in order to provide a certain challenge to coordinated groups of players.

If there was an arena like instance that hosts an event (like normal open world events) which starts hard and gets harder very fast, that might be easier to code than more complex instanced content.

There could be a leaderboard, based on rounds, kills or points.
Top groups (of the week and of the month) could get special currency for cosmetics, boosts, titles, or something like that.


Watching might be problematic, since multiple groups should be able to fight at the same time.
However, the arena could always show the fight of the most successful (currently competing) squad.

Content like that might cause a number of people to stay away from the War itself, but there are ways to solve this problem.
-make it too hard for most people
-limit it to a certain time (i.e. only open within x hours after event y -in the open world- happens)
-limit the number of max entries per player (within a week or a day)


I just dont want to get to a point in game and be like "well, that was fun, time to move to something else" and your attitude towards competitive kinda scares me...

If the game has a end, a point where players wont be able to progress at all, players will leave.

Now, this is my point of view and i hope that this wont even be a problem...but it might and i can see you guys are passionate about this game and i am too and dont want it to die 3 years after launch.
I see the same problem.

Simple open world war worked in Planetside 2 (to a certain degree), but it is PvP, which makes a huge difference to pure PvE.
There are achievements that unlock special items (which do not just look differently), there are multiple classes and vehicles to play, BUT STILL, the community is shrinking.
I was one of the players, but the game got boring.

Even if the war in Ember is dynamic, there has to be some kind of competition.
There has to be something that makes people want to get skilled and that makes skilled players want to try harder.
There has to be something that requires coordinated teamplay with a squad or an army.
Something that makes you play and communicate with others.

Many people stay in a game, because of army and friends.
I have played and left many games.
The games i played the longest, where those where i made friends and had an army (or where there was some kind of ranking).
In all of those games, coordinated teamplay and communication in squads/platoons were highly rewarded and sometimes even required.
 
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Jul 27, 2016
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#23
Simple open world war worked in Planetside 2 (to a certain degree), but it is PvP, which makes a huge difference to pure PvE. There are achievements that unlock special items (which do not just look differently), there are multiple classes and vehicles to play, BUT STILL, the community is shrinking. I was one of the players, but the game got boring.

Even if the war in Ember is dynamic, there has to be some kind of competition.
There has to be something that makes people want to get skilled and that makes skilled players want to try harder.
There has to be something that requires coordinated teamplay with a squad or an army.
Something that makes you play and communicate with others.

Many people stay in a game, because of army and friends.
I have played and left many games.
The games i played the longest, where those where i made friends and had an army (or where there was some kind of ranking).
In all of those games, coordinated teamplay and communication in squads/platoons were highly rewarded and sometimes even required.
The competition will be between an AI enemy that will constantly match us in size and strength. We're going to have to rely on strategy to survive. No invasion should be the same as the prior one. Progression, combined with updates to keep the world tier always out of reach, will ensure there's no hardcap. Teamwork will be required in this game, but with the whole community. Armies are going to be portions of that, but the community of each zone will be a sword with which to face down the Tsi-Hu.

Research, as well as artifacts and other items that are rare and hard to find, will ensure the game stays fresh. Newly appearing breeds of Kaiju will make the game fresh. The push and pull will keep the game interesting, especially once the AI adapts to our common strategies and we have to constantly think of new ones to win.
 
Likes: Degiance

0V3RKILL

Terraformer
Aug 5, 2016
152
270
63
#26
I had enough of competitive gameplay pvp. I want to play em8er to relax and enjoy what I'm doing with other clan members and friends. I just want a pve relaxed and fun open world. If I want competitive gameplay I go to battlefield or CoD especially now that they are starting to go WWII.
 
Aug 11, 2016
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#27
I had enough of competitive gameplay pvp. I want to play em8er to relax and enjoy what I'm doing with other clan members and friends. I just want a pve relaxed and fun open world. If I want competitive gameplay I go to battlefield or CoD especially now that they are starting to go WWII.
That's all fine for you, but don't forget that most shooter players tend to prefer fighting each other. Even if it's not a major part of the game, PvP should be involved somewhere to appeal to those players.
 
Aug 11, 2016
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11
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#29
em8er is going to be pve.
It is going to be PvE, yes. Does that mean PvP isn't a possibility somewhere down the road? There's always a chance to put it in there somewhere.

No matter how strong the AI gets, I doubt it'll compete with the challenge another player can give you.
 

Torgue_Joey

Emberite -Death Reaper
KAIJU 'SPLODER
Jul 27, 2016
908
1,568
93
Germany
#30
GRUMMZ DID NOT EXCLUDE PVP 100%.
THE DEV WILL SIMPLY FUCUS HEAVY ON PVE.

YA'LL CAN NAG AND B*TCH ABOUT PVP AFTER PVE IS POLISHED AND COMPLETE.

(MY OPINION ON THE PVP MATTER. UT STYLED ARENAS. WHERE SKILLS>STATS.)
 
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Nalessa

Active Member
Jan 6, 2017
64
156
33
32
Belgium
#32
They can always just add a SH style free for all area at launch, but make it clear that they're not gonna do any balancing around it at all, it's just there for people who want to blast each other instead of kaiju, but it's not going to be balanced (at the start at least), it's just a silly FFA area, nothing more.

I wouldn't mind scoreboards, some people love competition, even if it's just mining resources, number of kaiju slain, etc etc etc ...
If you don't care about it, it doesn't hurt you at all but for those who do enjoy this kind of content they can have this option.
Content that's optional, even if it's niche, and doesn't affect people who don't want to participate in it or gives an advantage at all is always a good thing, especially when it's something that wont take a year and a lot of money to create.
 

Fac3man

Thumper Inbound - Emberite - Firstclaimer
Jul 26, 2016
34
15
8
#33
hardcore instances/missions/raids to get good gear..and i mean real hardcore not ff hardcore (like dod was in the beginning)
best would be to add kind of a slider to choose difficuty and get gear/titles/decals and stuff according to it..
such content -almost impossible to finish with a low dropchance- would attract ppl to do it over and over again
 

Mahdi

THMPR Inbound - Gatestrider - Firstclaimer
Jul 26, 2016
430
729
93
Montana, US
#35
I'm not against PvP but truly hope it becomes an instanced arena and it's own gear. Keep it completely separate from the pve, which is the main focus of Em-8ER.

My outlook is the feedback from pve players is going to be 80% balancing issues and content ideas/requests. But PvP on the other hand are 70% or better sore losers or whiners wanting to complain about some being unfair.

The question to me would be how successful do you want the game to be? How big of a player base is enough? If the pve is smooth and servers are highly active, why change what isn't broke? But I can also understand that PvP player bases are highly active (look at the only reason why gtav is played anymore). But I still feel that if pve milestones are being blasted through like they have been, PvP won't be needed to attract more players. Plenty of PvP games out there for them to get their fix.
 

Degiance

Deepscanner
Jul 5, 2017
732
990
93
Finland
degiance.deviantart.com
#37
I have always generally felt like PvP tends to attract the worst of the worst same goes with people who care nothing but progression and do not enjoy anyone or anything enjoying the game after accomplishing something.
(Im not saying absolutely everyone who gravitate towards progression only or PvP only style gameplay are bad, but you gotta admit some of them are off their hinges most likely due to stress IRL and feel like being mad at random strangers online is gona make that stress go away. *shrugs*)

Even WoW was planned to be PvE only and PvP wasn't added untill what patch 0.8 or something (Might be wrong on the patch number don't quote me on that).
But the absolutely best part of the game for me was how people used to gather to Goldshire, PvP'ers and PvE'rs alike telling noobs what kinda day they had raiding or doing PvP mostly Alterac Valley but both tended to agree that you had to be good at PvP and PvE to be good at either. (I personally loved the moments when someone believed their gear mattered more and this one guy called Armano would take these pickaxes with beast slaying enchant and remove all his armor and duel the guy. Short to say Armano kicked that guys ass and said:"Skill over gear any day.")
Oh and this happend on a roleplaying realm.

Then they started to focus on the PvP abit too much and by the end of WOTLK. PvP was dead to me thanks to all the "balancing" and "only with right gear you win" thing.
There is plenty of PvP only games and they are making plenty of PvP only games like Crowfall.. I just don't get it why every game supposedly "needs" PvP and shoehorned in progression to make it interesting, usually by people that overlook everything else in the game like the enviroment, the exploration, story etc etc..
 

Mahdi

THMPR Inbound - Gatestrider - Firstclaimer
Jul 26, 2016
430
729
93
Montana, US
#38
haha about the axes with beast slaying. I remember watching in Wrath a warrior using the best fishing pole beat people constantly in duels outside ogrimar.
 
Likes: Degiance

0V3RKILL

Terraformer
Aug 5, 2016
152
270
63
#39
It is going to be PvE, yes. Does that mean PvP isn't a possibility somewhere down the road? There's always a chance to put it in there somewhere.

No matter how strong the AI gets, I doubt it'll compete with the challenge another player can give you.
I remember that in firefall since the early days pvp was what drove a lot of people away and not because they dont like pvp. I don't hate pvp. Its because for pvp to work it will need a lot of balancing and that balancing can break the pve and affect it in bad ways. Oh your moving to fast, they slow us down, oh firecat is to OP, they nerfed it to the point of becoming not fun on pve, recluse was to OP they nerfed it down. In pve is fun to have OP equipment that can easily destroy the enemy. Love it and I am worried to see pvp destroy this game cause I've seen it to many times before. That's why I am oppose it. not cause pvp is not fun. If it had a map only for it and what ever gets nerfed only gets nerfed in that map and not in pve I am ok with that.
 
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Likes: Degiance
Aug 11, 2016
9
11
3
#40
I remember that in firefall since the early days pvp was what drove a lot of people away and not because they dont like pvp. I don't hate pvp. Its because for pvp to work it will need a lot of balancing and that balancing can break the pve and affect it in bad ways. Oh your moving to fast, they slow us down, oh firecat is to OP, they nerfed it to the point of becoming not fun on pve, recluse was to OP they nerfed it down. In pve is fun to have OP equipment that can easily destroy the enemy. Love it and I am worried to see pvp destroy this game cause I've seen it to many times before. That's why I am oppose it. not cause pvp is not fun. If it had a map only for it and what ever gets nerfed only gets nerfed in that map and not in pve I am ok with that.
The issue with PvP is that they balanced the frames around PvP, and they hadn't separated PvP frames from PvE. They took too long to separate the frames while still balancing around PvP, thus driving a lot of the PvE community away. A good example of this is when they nerfed the recon frames pretty hard because they were overwhelmingly strong in PvP, while being just okay for thumping. The nerf put them in a good spot for PvP, but made them useless for thumping.

Of course, this went both ways. Engineers were too good in PvE, but okay for PvP. Nerfing them to put them in line for PvE made them useless for PvP.
 
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