Worries about gameplay...

Discussion in 'General Ember Discussion' started by Schmuky, Apr 11, 2017.

Should there be some sort of competitive aspect to the game?

  1. Yes

  2. No

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Schmuky

    Schmuky New Member

    Right, i know i might be abusing the section posting this here, but it is the only place i know you guys (devs) are constantly checking. So after you read it, you can delete it.

    Also, i am putting this here as the writing is way to big for a tweet or Q&A.

    The main problem i think players will face will be "I reached tot tier (or level or whatever you guys choose to implement).... Now what?"

    I for one dont mind grinding. I can farm the same zone for days on end without problem in order to get enough $ to buy that legendary gun... But what benefits does that gun bring me? If it is only to play the same as before, just fighting in invasions and grinding some more...well that aint fun

    That is the reason i stoped playing Firefall. Not the bugs or the content going away ( that was irritating, for sure) but the main reason was that i reached lvl 40 on a frame, had decent equipment to take on bosses and...that was it. Started some new frames, but got bored as every night o ended up in Devils Tush at the Magma Worm.... And that was it.

    So the question is "What do players do after getting the top tier on a frame?". They just start over with another one?

    Thats fine for casual player, they play once a week and take an ungodly amount of time to finish it. But for active players? And lets say they do that. They take another frame, then another. An active player will sooner or later finish will all frames. Then..hes done? Nothing else to do except log in for invasions. There you guys might lose quite a lot of players...

    There are 2 ways (in my mind) how you can prevent this:
    1. Make it a veeeeeery long process to be able to get to top tier, in such a way that even is someone gets all his frames to top tier, it will take him some years.....and this SUCKS! You will lose casual players as they wont feel they are progressing in the game at all and infuriate active players as grinding will become law.
    2. Make some sort of competitive. Make players compete in something, in order to make them want to get better gear and, after they got everything, to want to come back to the game and prove over and over they are the best.

    One way you cound do this and NOT be PVP is kinda like a arena: 2 teams of 5 (or more) players take on..let's say a cat. 3 Kaiju. First team that kills it wins (reward, currency, maybe some decal etc). Could also make it a spectator "sport" have a arena filled with other players, maybe new players that can learn from the pros in the arena.

    There could be tournaments and events and you dont have to recaliber the frames for PVP, as the players will fight a Kaiju.

    I understand you guys dont want to put pvp, as it can make a comunity toxic and a lot of other stuff....but look at rocket League. They are solely skill based and they are doing fine because it is competitive...

    I just dont want to get to a point in game and be like "well, that was fun, time to move to something else" and your attitude towards competitive kinda scares me...

    If the game has a end, a point where players wont be able to progress at all, players will leave.

    Now, this is my point of view and i hope that this wont even be a problem...but it might and i can see you guys are passionate about this game and i am too and dont want it to die 3 years after launch.
     
    grizzlybair87 likes this.
  2. Torgue_Joey

    Torgue_Joey Emberite -Death Reaper

    ONE COMPETITIVE THING IS THERE.
    WHO SPENT THE MOST RESOURCES ON TERRAFORMING. (or what did Grummz said about that certain leaderboard thingy)

    AND THE SAME THING WHY I KEPT GOING BACK TO GUILD WARS 2: FRIENDS
    IT'S NEVER BORING TO PLAY WITH FRIENDS.
     
    EvilKitten and neonserge like this.
  3. Terricon4

    Terricon4 Well-Known Member

    Alternative option 1. Make it relatively quick to reach top tier, but have so many different pieces of equipment that it takes AGES to unlock all of them and max them (the Warframe approach more or less).

    For option 2, I do more or less agree. Some type of scoreboard or competitive aspect is nice to have for those who have time and try hard. Be it fighting directly against others ala pvp, or in having a scoreboard or something for total weekly resources mined per player/army,etc. Or there could be some types of challenges, more specific but samey things like raids, time trail missions, or whatever. Though those don't seem like they'd fit as well with the current goal/direction of Em-8ER they do have the advantage of letting people compare a specific skill/capability in a constrained setting to see who's the best (and not just who has more time). Arenas could work... but lore wise I do question it a bit (though that could change as a lot is still unknown/undecided).

    You could also have it so there is a weekly tournament or goal that the gatestriders post, like gather as much of X resource as you can, or kill as many kaijus as possible or as many smaller Tsi-Hu or whatever. Maybe you have one for building/upgrading and maintaining bases. The idea is that it's a current objective that's overall considered important for the war effort so everyone focuses on that for awhile and the better you do the more rewards you might unlock in tiers (basic rewards at first). And then for those at the very top, there will be a second set of rewards for those who get the top positions (more likely to have unique stuff here). Preferably scale the upper number of spots for people by total percentage of players who participated and achieved at least the first reward tier in the event so that it will feel rewarding and hard, but doable with 500 people playing, but also still the same with 50,000 playing.
     
    grizzlybair87 likes this.
  4. Torgue_Joey

    Torgue_Joey Emberite -Death Reaper

    OK. THERE IS ONE SCORE BOARD I WANNA SEE.

    WEEKLY AND MONTHLY BODY COUNT.

    IT'S BLOODY RABBIT HUNTING TIIIIIIIIME.
    MEEDLYBEEBLYFEEBLYMEEEOWWWWWWEWEWEEWWWW
     
  5. EvilKitten

    EvilKitten Gatestrider

    The solution is simply to make the acquiring and "maxing out" of frames to be not a significant part of the game experience. Remember that unlocks are community wide. I don't think frames are intended to have levels (possibly addons do but if so, again community unlocks). This is the same problem we have in another topic, your treating this as a standard leveling and player gear focused MMO.
     
  6. Shokolad

    Shokolad Emberite

    But there will not be a marketplace at all in Ember, as far as i know
     
  7. Silenieux

    Silenieux New Member

    this won't happen if enough players continue to support the game and the game is fairly horizontal while still have some degree of climb, much like GW2 has done there's always new gear and stuff to earn, classes, upgrades etc without pushing too much on a power creep.

    That being said this is always going to be a risk, i found early in its life firefall was an amazing adventure between exploring, thumping for resources and even learning to drain resources so they would be forced to re-roll for a given type. I personally think if there's a good balance between exploration, grind, and grouping the game will do well!....then again it wasn't too long after mark's ....departure from red5 that the game began to go down hill very quickly, they pushed pay to win, pay to advance etc...

    one of the ways to keep content coming as many games are learning are shiny costumes paints etc as well as in game currency trade for real currency, these kinds of things will support the game as well as future content release...sorry i strayed...back on point
    when it all comes down to it a good balance for grinding exploration, etc is what the game will need, reward players for grinding and exploring, for question, and running story arcs ^^

    ps: frame management, cpu load, reactor load, etc is a system i loved when i first saw firefall...:p
     
  8. Tyler

    Tyler New Member

    You can also add in Army Tournaments, or a season set-up. (Where Army is like a "Guild" or "Clan". Believe it was called Army in Firefall)

    There could a couple of instance-bosses that requires a large army-only group of players. With this Armies could compete for fastest kills or kill-counts.

    If not instance-bosses (if only for these tournaments), it could be a "Stock-Pile the Resources" setup. Perhaps an Army could build a temporary base. The base would require resources to continue functioning, upgrade defences among various other things and occasionally Tsi-Hu and Kaiju raids would occur on the base. The size of the raid could relatively large to the size of the base.

    To add a twist to it, any part of the base (including any buildings and walls) could be destroyed/damaged and would require resources to rebuild and repair after the "raid" is done.

    Furthermore, you could make the exact location of the buildings matter. For example, if warehouses were to be destroyed; then all the resources in that particular warehouse would be lost, on top of having to use more resources to rebuild a warehouse. So you would want to position the warehouses in a place that is safe; however, don't cluster important buildings so if something does get through, it can't destroy all the important buildings.

    Other buildings could include things like AOE Power-Boosts, or Shield Generators.

    There could also be "Critical Buildings" such as Energy Generators (to supply the base with Energy to function), and 1 "Control Centre" that would control communications and be able to control the functionality of the base; such as diverting power supplies to particular buildings.

    Naturally if these buildings were to be destroyed then it would be a massive blow on the base and potentially lead to the complete destruction of the base.

    With this said, you should be able allowed to make quick field-repairs on certain functions; for example, repairing damaged Shield Re-generators so they could at operator at a lesser capacity.

    Just for another twist, the required resources to make the field-repairs could require you (or another Army Member) to get resources from a Warehouse and then make the repairs.

    At the end of a "Season" (however long they would be), there would be rankings based on the total amount of resources the base has at the end of the Season. The resources would be the sum of all existing buildings, upgrades, defences, and all stored resources.

    If Army could collect resources (that the Army holds, rather than individual players), then at the end of the season the "temporary base" could be deconstructed and converted in resources that goes into the Army's reserves, on top of any rewards that comes with the Army's rankings.

    Some restrictions should include that only resources that were collected during the season can go towards the "temporary base" (no pre-collecting).

    Also, raids should only occur if X percent (or X amount) of Army Members are currently on. This should be added to prevent a raid from occurring when no one is online so that an Army doesn't wake up to see their base completely destroyed overnight.

    The biggest issues regarding the idea would be:

    Where the bases be built? Where would the space be?
    Can players outside of the Army influence a raid? If not; how would the influence be prevented?

    If an Army Leader could choose a spot in real-world, which would then generate an instance-area where the center of the instance-area would the exact position the Army Leader chose; then, not only it would create a exceedingly interesting part to the entire building a base concept. It would also answer both of these questions; however, if we are avoiding creating instances...

    This was just thought of off the top of my mind, so there could be a lot of other points missing.

    PS: To any other player, feel free to take the idea. Don't need my permission or anything. As for Devs, naturally that is a given. :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2017
    neonserge and Aphaz like this.
  9. Aphaz

    Aphaz Player One

  10. Carter154

    Carter154 New Member

    Grinding can be included in support of the purpose of the game. But the purpose of the game cannot be grinding.

    That's what happened to FireFall. The purpose became grinding. Horrible. Unforgivable given the initial vision.

    As long as every time I log on and play I feel like I'm progressing in some way, getting more effective relative to the enemy I'm fighting in some way, and contributing to the war effort, I'll be a happy camper.
     

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