Official Firefall-Esque Weapon Requests Thread

Discussion in 'General Ember Discussion' started by Ronyn, Jun 26, 2017.

  1. I enjoyed it a lot. It had the 'feel' of being very precise and quick which made it a wonderful contrast to the also fun NH Sniper Rifle (which was fun with the AOE pop at the end as the big reward).
     
  2. NightStroke

    NightStroke Active Member

    Loved this weapon a lot. It was very versatile as a sniper weapon and felt very satisfying to use (that noise it has). The only reason I haven't suggested it myself is because the weapon came with a lot of balancing issues because of its versatility. People would always mod it to adjust charge rate in ways that made the dps peak and often led to broken gameplay, especially against bosses. The devs, if they include this gun, would need to find a near-perfect charge-to-damage equation that encouraged both patience and haste with the gun. Since you didn't include a video, here's some gameplay with the gun.

    Gun is pretty simple: you scope in, weapon begins charging to a point. The charge rifle can be fired at any point in the charging process and it will do damage correlating to its charge value. So a shot with no charge does minimum damage, a shot with max charge does the most possible damage. This makes the weapon useful against both squishy targets and big ones because doing less damage allows a faster rate of fire but the option of slower firing does the most damage. I'm not sure if I'm correct but the equation for charge-> damage was exponential; the most dps resulted from when a shot was nearly charged up but not completely.

    (Start at 1:23 or so)

    (Do note how amazing that sound is)

    Some versions of the charge rifle allow the weapon to charge while hip-firing, which made the weapon useful for non-sniping purposes (especially when it came to the raptors ult). Earlier versions of the rifle restrict charging to scope-only, which I think is the better choice (So hipfiring just shoots a minimum-damage round) . If charging is allowed out-of-scope the weapon becomes useful at every single range against every single type of target because of the charging variable. My vote is to keep charging limited to scope.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2017
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  3. Terricon4

    Terricon4 Well-Known Member

    Fusion Cannon

    My most loved gun would probably be the Fusion cannon, from the later versions of Firefall (once it was fixed post 1.6). While there were other fun and more unique guns, the Fusion Cannon was a great weapon that offered a medium rate of fire, high damage, and fairly good accuracy, with just a little AOE. It was the gun that did it all, and since it could also head shot it had the potential to be one of the best weapons for a skilled player, while it's aoe helped it still work for the less accurate, though at less than ideal levels of damage.

    A lot of it just came down to the feel, its projectile was fast but not instant so you did have to lead the targets enough that skill was involved, but not so slow as to be unusable against mobile enemies at range. This was key to letting you exloit your frames mobility since you could find the best range to engage at for any given enemy and then move to what they were weak against (assaults did this in general, but the others had shorter maximum effective ranges).
    It's damage was extremely high with the headshots, but given the projectiles travel time that took serious skill at ranges, and the general body shots were still quite competitive if you were consistent with them. For being less accurate or able to predict targets at range the AOE was quite small and had a low dmg, so it could be hard to use without proper focus.
    The rate of fire was fast enough that it felt like a steadily firing auto cannon, more than like a slow one shot weapon like a bolt action sniper rifle or such. This speed, that wasn't too fast but not too slow made for a very satisfying pacing when firing and timing your shots. Enough time to aim each shot, but short enough that it doesn't feel slow and you are pressured to aim quickly.
    It also had some projectile drop, not a lot but if you engaged at longer distances, it did have to be taken into account. The result was a weapon that very much could reach and hit targets at extreme ranges, but that required skill to do so as long as the targets were moving, especially if you wanted the headshots.

    All in all, lots of things to be focusing on and paying attention to while using this gun, everything from player range, the target, their movement, their critical spot, my ammo, how much health they had left (single shotable without a headshot or not and so something that can push you to gamble on that one riskier shot, unlike miniguns and such you don't plan that part in you just hose them down till they die, trying to aim it towards the head the whole time). And while having all of those parts, it still was usable in almost any situation so unlike sniper rifles I wouldn't end up feeling pressured or out of position/useless when at the wrong distance/situation.

     
  4. MattHunX

    MattHunX Player One

    [​IMG]

    Okay, bear with me, here. Keeping it brief. Up there is the Shock Rail, yeah? We all know how it worked in-game. For Em-8er, I imagine something very similar, both in terms of looks and function. A bit slimmer on the bottom part that attaches to the forearm, perhaps. Less bulk.

    Here's the twist. No illustrations necessary, hopefully. The top bit, with the rotating parts, that is also the gun (could be more pointy), could arch/snap into a energy-sword for melee attacks, in a moment's notice. Energy would envelop it to form a small barrier around it that would be the blade of the sword, obviously. The part that does the damage. One moment, the weapon could be firing similarly to the Shock Rail. Accurately from the hip. Perhaps an alternate, burst-fire or AoE spherical/bubble blast when in iron-sight. But it would have the ability to snap its rotating parts/joints into place (arching a bit, maybe - like a curved-sword) and immediately generate an energy-field, so it then could be instantly used as a melee weapon, essentially making it an energy-sword. Then it could loosen up to turn back into a ranged-weapon, swiftly, fluidly, as fast as e.g.: Omni-Blades can form/flash-forge in Mass Effect games, without any loss of flow or momentum mid-combat. As the animation for our character/frame would play, winding up for either a fast or heavy melee strike, the weapon would snap into a blade, energy surging through it, then hitting the target, all within a second or two.

    Keeping to my theme of 2 weapons in 1, besides the possible alternate firing-mode of an omni-weapon.

    And something similar to Charge-Rifles. Must.
     
  5. BunnyHunny

    BunnyHunny Member

    Maxing the effectiveness (peak dps in this case) is the whole point of being able to modify stuff.

    There might have been balancing issues with that weapon in versions from 3+ years ago, but not in any iteration afterwards.
    Also it did not make sense to max charge speed anymore.


    Bad idea.
    If it made sense to always charge the weapon almost completely (and always to a specific degree) and only shoot when aiming down sights, there is no real difference to a normal sniper rifle (except the charge rifle would force the player to stay scoped the entire time, while the sniper rifle only requires to scope in the moment of shooting).

    Much better imo (which is what we had in later iterations):
    Automatically charges ALWAYS, not only in scope (without losing the charge when switching between ads and hipfire).
    Give the gun a decent hipfire accuracy (good enough to be able to hit targets on short to medium range).
    Add 50%+ (relatively high) headshot multiplier to cause a difference in effectiveness between scoped and not scoped (headshots without ads should be hard to achieve unless the head is in very close range and/or gigantic).
    Add the option to automatically fire at max rate by holding down the left mouse button.

    Having the weapon always charge up increases the skill cap, because the first shot after a short pause deals much more damage and is an important shot to hit, also fast aim would be rewarded, since quickscoping is now useful (otherwise, the player always has time to aim for a second or so).
    Also, the player has to decide, if (in the specific situation) it is more useful to shoot from the hip or to ads.
    It also allows for more mobility because the player is not forced to ads for at least x seconds before shooting, and then keep ads in order to be able to deal damage.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2017
  6. NightStroke

    NightStroke Active Member

    There is a difference between a charge rifle that only charges ads and a BASR. While one has a constant damage and every shot must be used on every type of target, potentially consuming its short mag and long fire rate to deal wasted damage and time, the other has variable damage and is more efficient because it only needs to be charged enough to kill its specific target.

    The charge rifle was my favorite weapon throughout firefall, from 0.5 to firefalls death. I understand why you like the later iterations of it; the weapon with charging no-scope made it more potent and more versatile than it already was. But don't you see why it's problematic?
    1. Because of variable damage, the charge rifle has the advantage of efficiency and rate of fire. If someone misses a shot with the BASR, they have just wasted a valuable round and are punished by the BASR's rate of fire. If they use the BASR on a squishy enemy, they waste a round by doing unnecessarily extra damage. Someone who uses a charge rifle has choice. A missed shot is immediately followed up by another. No damage is wasted on smaller targets because damage can be lowered and rate of fire can be raised.

    2. If you give the charge rifle the ability to charge while hip-firing, you make the weapon effective at every single distance. Both the BASR and the Charge rifle can wreck at close-range because of BASR quickscoping/potshots and the charge rifle just firing from the hip. At mid-range, the charge rifle is superior because you don't have to scope to be effective, because of decent accuracy and all the perks of not being in scope, which the BASR has to be. And of course both weapons are good at long range, which they are supposed to be. But the charge rifle can be strong at all ranges while the BASR cannot.

    Since the charge rifle is better at any range and against any target, why would someone choose the BASR rather than the charge rifle, except for against bosses maybe? Why would someone need a secondary weapon at all, with your suggestions?

    I'd say a good compromise is this:
    1. The charge rifle, if LMB is held down, automatically fires rounds at the minimum charge and damage.(this was a change I wanted back in firefall, just forgot to bring it up)
    2. Accuracy while hipfiring starts out perfect but the reticle blooms quickly with continuous firing
    3. Probably the most important one: let the charge rifle charge outside of the scope, but to a limit. Outside of scope, make the maximum charge 1/3 or 1/2 of the total charge bar. When you scope in, the rifle continues charging. This way, the principles of the charge rifle are still maintained out-of-scope but sniping is the encouraged method for dealing damage, especially since the ideal dps is found in the latter half of the charge bar.
     
  7. BunnyHunny

    BunnyHunny Member

    Only if enemies die within something like less than 4 shots, it really matters when you have to "waste" damage on a low hp target.

    A missed shot is NOT immediately followed up by another.
    Not, if it makes sense to charge the rifle (at least to a certain degree) before every shot, which is what you proposed.

    Assuming that a BASR shoots slower, but hits harder than an effectively used charge rifle...
    Unless there are multiple enemies with such a low HP pool that you do not even need one full shot from a BASR, or a charged shot from a charge rifle, it does not really matter if you have a charge rifle or a BASR.
    However, when shooting an enemy that can, just so, be killed with a certain number of shots from a BASR, a player using a charge rifle would have to waste shots.

    Also, we are talking about a multiplayer game. Nobody forces a guy who uses a slow firing weapon with high damage to finish low HP enemies.
    People who use AE weapons will probably not complain about "wasting" their AE dmg when shooting single targets either.

    You just contradicted yourself.
    "can wreck at close-range because of BASR quickscoping"
    "But the charge rifle can be strong at all ranges while the BASR cannot."

    A sniper rifle (if quick scoping is possible) works at any range. That is a fact.
    A charge rifle that requires you to stay scoped for around a second, in order to be effective, would NOT be effective at short range (and a pain in the ass in general).
    According to yourself, spamming it without charging every shot should not be very effective, therefore it would be far worse than a BASR at short range.

    A slower firing weapon (probably the BASR) is more effective at long range than a faster shooting one, because it is easier to hit every shot with.

    I am pretty sure that the point of a charge rifle is supposed to be that it is MORE versatile than a BASR and that it allows for more flexibility.
    If it would only charge while scoped, with the charge being important, it would be far less versatile.


    Why would it be better at all ranges?

    And why would it be better against any kind of target?
    The effectiveness of weapons against different targets would depend the size of the target, it has crit zones and how it moves.
    It would completely depend on base damage, crit multiplier and projectile velocity of the weapons.
    If the sniper rifle had a lower base DPS, but a far higher crit multiplier than the charge rifle (which should definitely be the case), both would have their use.


    Why minimum charge?
    Just make it max rate of fire. That still allows for charge speed to increase your damage.

    Sounds reasonable. Should only be the case though, when held down, or at least be reduced when the player manually clicks for each shot (in order to reward the risk of oversampling).

    Why are you trying to make the charge rifle a worse sniper rifle?
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2017
  8. NightStroke

    NightStroke Active Member

    I don't want to hijack the thread, so if you want to discuss further lets take this to a personal message.

    Essentially, what makes the charge rifle better at every range (if hipfire charging is allowed) is the ways either weapon has to work for close or mid ranges. The BASR has to quickscope(which takes skill) or potshot at very close range, meaning the player has to compromise position or have reduced mobility. A charge rifle that can charge out of scope has high accuracy can be used with any mobility (I could play like a firecat quite easily if I wanted to). And keep in mind that the BASR has a lower mag size so its shots are more "valuable". I'm not trying to make a charge rifle a worse BASR, I'm trying to suggest a way to keep the charge rifle and BASR as equally potent alternatives.
     
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  9. AdmiralStryker

    AdmiralStryker Active Member

    I'd like to see the Rhino(from Firefall)'s Laser HMG in this game.
    LHMG.png

    The weapon's primary fire never changed over the course of development. It fired medium ranged hitscan shots at a high rate of fire. Of all the Dreadnought-class weapons, the LHMG had the best DPS. The shots had a longer range than the traditional HMG, but they had a damage falloff.

    My main proposed change is with the alternate fire. Originally, you held down the right mouse button and a beam of energy fired from the weapon to a short range, dealing high damage at the cost of high ammo consumption. The damage was almost never worth the ammo consumption though, and the alt-fire only saw use if you didn't have time to charge the weapon or whatnot.

    I'd like to see the alt-fire changed. It was called a laser lance previously, but I want to see an actual one. I'd like to see it be changed such that it maintains and fires a beam of energy-shorter ranged than before-but with more manageable ammo consumption(or draw on the Omniframe's power core). The damage would be about the same, but what this would do is literally gore enemies. You'd only be able to fire it with an enemy in your crosshairs, but once fired, it would lock you and the enemy to each other for as long as the beam is maintained, dealing continuous damage. Neither of you would be able to take actions(bosses/Kaiju being the exceptions), but the user would be able to move.

    Even moreso, I want to see that lance work on Kaiju. Who needs a grappling hook when you can impale a Kaiju's hand and use it to get a free ride onto its back?
     
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  10. BunnyHunny

    BunnyHunny Member

    Except in 1.5. And in 1.6.

    Or, if you actually used it intelligently, you did so, while Dreadfield was active, because your alt fire could only reach enemies that would be within the aoe (--> no ammo consumption), anyway.


    So... something like what the weapon actually did in 1.5, 1.6 and 1.7?

    If you want the lowest possible skill requirement for a weapon, thats what to do.
    Add an auto aim, disable the enemy while being shot and prevent firing when not aiming at anything.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2017
  11. Jansin3

    Jansin3 Member

    I really liked whole recluse weapon concept.
    Left click for fast precise high damage bolt and right click for aoe gas cloud that had lifesteal.
     
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  12. BunnyHunny

    BunnyHunny Member

    The gas cloud did not have life steal.
    All your damage had, thanks to a perk (and since 1.6 thanks to Heroism).
     
  13. AdmiralStryker

    AdmiralStryker Active Member

    I don't claim omniscience. I didn't play the game very much as it progressed past 1.5. I didn't realize that the gun had ben changed in such a way, and I apologize. I believe my description was sufficient to give the reader an idea of what I mean.

    As for the alt-fire/Dreadfield, that's viable, but I found that often it did less damage than the primary fire with Dreadfield up. As I said, based on my experience.

    As for your final comment, it's not auto-aim. Like the tesla rifle, the weapon does nothing but drain ammo unless you have your crosshairs ON a target. Once it's on, it stays locked-or maybe it should remain dependent on the user maintaining the lock. The enemy being shot is disabled(but I'm talking standard Tsi-Hu. Stronger enemies or more importantly Kaiju should NOT be disabled.), but you can still be fired at by other enemies. Use it in the wrong position, and you leave yourself terribly open.

    I also want to emphasize the feedback-oriented nature of this. While criticism is nice, I'd like to hear what you would prefer. Use what I suggested as a template, or suggest something original. What do you think it should be?
     
  14. Meower

    Meower New Member

    THIS ONE! CLOUD RECLUSE AOE POISON DEATH! :D PLEASE.
     
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  15. BunnyHunny

    BunnyHunny Member

    No auto aim, no lock onto enemies.

    Either an energy beam that simply hits one target, or an energy beam that can chain to other enemies, after hitting the initial one.

    Would be cool to see the 1.5 alt fire for that weapon as well.
    It was a forwarding shield that would pop up instantly and absorb a relatively low amount of damage and has a max duration of something like 2 seconds (cooldown of something like 6sec).
    If the shield gets destroyed within its duration, the weapon releases an explosion, dealing damage and knocking back enemies within a cone in front of the player.
    The shield did not disable primary weapon fire and looked like this:

    2:11
     
  16. AdmiralStryker

    AdmiralStryker Active Member

    Considering the frame was the Rhino, I'd agree with removing the lock on/aim and keeping the "gore" functionality. But considering that this weapon is going to be more for heavy frames, I think the shield would be the best(especially if equipping this weapon requires you to not be able to use an offhand shield).
     
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  17. PeknietyJerzy

    PeknietyJerzy New Member

    Recluse weapon was so original and it would be great if you add it in EM8ER too. It may be on a principle that you deal less damage with poison aoe gass but you have to move well if you want to kill and don't be killed. Sorry for my english.
     
  18. Earth_Soldier

    Earth_Soldier Well-Known Member

  19. Kailow_Krow

    Kailow_Krow New Member

    SWORD PLEASE A GAINT ONE FOR THE FRAMES YES YES
     
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  20. Soul

    Soul New Member

    Biotech Bio Rifle
    [​IMG]

    Gun spotlight starts at 1:00. This is the version as I was familiar with it. I used it constantly on my Dragonfly throughout my entire time playing dragonfly (up to max level and beyond). Very useful weapon and highly effective healing/combat utility. It was able to provide supplemental healing to multiple allies when your abilities were on cooldown (short range on the secondary fire, but as a Dragonfly you were moving around a lot anyway so it didn't matter).
     
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