Chief Chat "CLAIM STAKES 2" VOD - 8/05/2022 (Builds v1.3.1 and v1.3.2)

ChAzZ_NuT

Kaiju Slayer
Kaiju Slayer
Jan 22, 2017
100
205
43
#82
Claim-Staking
It seems that the claim-staking thing has been taken off the shelf again, so I'm going to put my opinions here now that I've had time to brew on the concept.


It looks like there are two main aspects of claim-staking that people are discussing, those being;

- Cosmetics
- Core Gameplay Mechanics



Cosmetics
Let's have a home and some land that we can build on, and let our inner creativity run wild. So we can show it off to our friends, kind of like the same way we show off our skins.


People can also buy cosmetics for their claim-stakes, in the cash-shop [Props, wall/floor panels, blueprints... etc]. So it is also another avenue for generating profit for Em8er. Cosmetics being Em8ers main source of income.

This is why we were offered the alternative of claim-stakes being a subscription if we lean away from the intricate-construction/cosmetic side of things, because if it's not orientated around cosmetics then it won't pay for itself.

I am sure there is a niche audience for this kind of gameplay on an MMO, enough of an audience to make it worthwhile because it will generate profit for Em8er.


Core Gameplay Mechanics
This part of the discussion gets complicated, there are different ideas on how claim-staking should be presented and what core functions it should boast.


I'm not actually going to dive into the different functions until we have something on paper, but I do have a broader opinion on how claim-staking gameplay should be presented.

So long as claim-staking is not necessary, and I can avoid it without my gameplay experience being affected detrimentally. If it does not greatly impact the development of the Kickstarter, then I'm all for it.
 
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liandri

Omni Ace
Omni Ace
Jul 29, 2016
448
1,108
93
Zone of Bones, Australia
#83
I still just want to drop in and shoot things. I believe players will be doing more combat than building personal bases, especially since they need resources to build.

The reworked THMPing is good, I like that you have to step up.

I'm glad it's on the backburner, and I'll be glad when a version of claimstakes is out to test so we can experience Grummz' vision over reading text and ideas.

I think you should build MEK-A (automated) like SCVs to do the work on your claimstake.
I-CECREAMs
Independently-Controlled Executors of Construction, Repairs, Electrics and Manufacturing.

Because SCV is just strawberry, chocolate and vanilla.
 
Feb 10, 2020
25
26
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#86
I had no idea they were planning this, but FFXIV just released claimstakes for all subscribers, complete with farming (which I was planning on). It's the most popular feature and the servers getting full.

Ours will be non-instanced.
I've had a chance to gain a few island levels in this patch, so here's some more info on the system as implimented.

Accessibility:
Locked to post 6.0 (Endwalker Story Completion) expansion. Only need a level 1 character to enter after.
Basically.. Endgame. Not sure why they didn't make the only requirement as having bought Endwalker instead of completing it. But, I could imagine access your island being worse if they did. At peak hours.. You need to make several attempts to get to your island. The server handling it is getting bombarded as hell.

Contents:

Gathering -
The island is populated with a number of different nodes, from rocks and trees to seaweed, plants and clams. You can harvest a basic material out of these nodes without a tool, but the correct tool (automatically used) generates a second material in addition to the first.

Farming:
Plant seeds, water, receive veggies.

Ranching:
A number of animal mobs appear in the island and are grouped by size (Small, Medium, Large). Single-Use tools are available for crafting that you can use to capture them. Afterwards, you have to feed them every now and then and eventually they can be harvested for an item. A sheep drops fleece while rarely providing milk, but the "Rare" sheep drops milk and rarely fleece.

(Hand)Crafting:
Right now you just make basic gathering tools (Only 1 needed) or mob capture tools(Consumed on Use), which unlock upon gaining levels. You can also handcraft food for critters using the farming rewards. Nothing ground-breaking here.


Housing:
Prefab. You can use special Island Glamour Prisms to customize some parts of it, but its not really extensive. You get facility slots and landmark slots to place buildings that do work for you, but you are locked to very specific plots. You can move them around at no cost and swap them with other built facilities after they are built though.

Production:
Right now, I have access to Granaries and Workshops. Workshops build items for an adjacent system using materials from the Gathering and Ranching systems, but they do not provide inventory items you can actually interact with. Granaries are your basic "Send-Critter-Out-Receive-Materials missions" these give items you can Gather + a rare item that may or may not be hand-gatherable.

Making Cash:
The workshops build items that are auto-sold off. These feed into a pseudo-stock market system that may or may not be managed player-wide as they have stated the entire thing is supposed to be bereft of player competition. Basically, theres a list of all producible items and each has a Current Demand, Stock, Future Demand, and Predicted Shift. You make decisions on what to build for the day and you get the currencies for the items when your workshops complete them. The currencies you receive are island specific currencies and divorced from the outside currencies.

Tie to World Outside: Barely there. The island is instanced. The cash you make from the previous system can be used on two merchants. These provide only cosmetics, some dyes, music, pets. You can also buy the latest 2 grades of gathering/crafting materia, which provides a decent bump to power for gathering/crafting gear.
 
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ChAzZ_NuT

Kaiju Slayer
Kaiju Slayer
Jan 22, 2017
100
205
43
#87
I've had a chance to gain a few island levels in this patch, so here's some more info on the system as implimented.

Accessibility:
Locked to post 6.0 (Endwalker Story Completion) expansion. Only need a level 1 character to enter after.
Basically.. Endgame. Not sure why they didn't make the only requirement as having bought Endwalker instead of completing it. But, I could imagine access your island being worse if they did. At peak hours.. You need to make several attempts to get to your island. The server handling it is getting bombarded as hell.

Contents:

Gathering -
The island is populated with a number of different nodes, from rocks and trees to seaweed, plants and clams. You can harvest a basic material out of these nodes without a tool, but the correct tool (automatically used) generates a second material in addition to the first.

Farming:
Plant seeds, water, receive veggies.

Ranching:
A number of animal mobs appear in the island and are grouped by size (Small, Medium, Large). Single-Use tools are available for crafting that you can use to capture them. Afterwards, you have to feed them every now and then and eventually they can be harvested for an item. A sheep drops fleece while rarely providing milk, but the "Rare" sheep drops milk and rarely fleece.

(Hand)Crafting:
Right now you just make basic gathering tools (Only 1 needed) or mob capture tools(Consumed on Use), which unlock upon gaining levels. You can also handcraft food for critters using the farming rewards. Nothing ground-breaking here.


Housing:
Prefab. You can use special Island Glamour Prisms to customize some parts of it, but its not really extensive. You get facility slots and landmark slots to place buildings that do work for you, but you are locked to very specific plots. You can move them around at no cost and swap them with other built facilities after they are built though.

Production:
Right now, I have access to Granaries and Workshops. Workshops build items for an adjacent system using materials from the Gathering and Ranching systems, but they do not provide inventory items you can actually interact with. Granaries are your basic "Send-Critter-Out-Receive-Materials missions" these give items you can Gather + a rare item that may or may not be hand-gatherable.

Making Cash:
The workshops build items that are auto-sold off. These feed into a pseudo-stock market system that may or may not be managed player-wide as they have stated the entire thing is supposed to be bereft of player competition. Basically, theres a list of all producible items and each has a Current Demand, Stock, Future Demand, and Predicted Shift. You make decisions on what to build for the day and you get the currencies for the items when your workshops complete them. The currencies you receive are island specific currencies and divorced from the outside currencies.

Tie to World Outside: Barely there. The island is instanced. The cash you make from the previous system can be used on two merchants. These provide only cosmetics, some dyes, music, pets. You can also buy the latest 2 grades of gathering/crafting materia, which provides a decent bump to power for gathering/crafting gear.
Thanks for that description buddy, that’s very helpful.
 
Likes: Pandagnome

PartTimeJedi

Em8ER Adjudicator
Staff member
Archon
Ember Moderator
Nov 13, 2018
1,317
2,933
113
Holy Terra
#88
I've had a chance to gain a few island levels in this patch, so here's some more info on the system as implimented.

Accessibility:
Locked to post 6.0 (Endwalker Story Completion) expansion. Only need a level 1 character to enter after.
Basically.. Endgame. Not sure why they didn't make the only requirement as having bought Endwalker instead of completing it. But, I could imagine access your island being worse if they did. At peak hours.. You need to make several attempts to get to your island. The server handling it is getting bombarded as hell.

Contents:

Gathering -
The island is populated with a number of different nodes, from rocks and trees to seaweed, plants and clams. You can harvest a basic material out of these nodes without a tool, but the correct tool (automatically used) generates a second material in addition to the first.

Farming:
Plant seeds, water, receive veggies.

Ranching:
A number of animal mobs appear in the island and are grouped by size (Small, Medium, Large). Single-Use tools are available for crafting that you can use to capture them. Afterwards, you have to feed them every now and then and eventually they can be harvested for an item. A sheep drops fleece while rarely providing milk, but the "Rare" sheep drops milk and rarely fleece.

(Hand)Crafting:
Right now you just make basic gathering tools (Only 1 needed) or mob capture tools(Consumed on Use), which unlock upon gaining levels. You can also handcraft food for critters using the farming rewards. Nothing ground-breaking here.


Housing:
Prefab. You can use special Island Glamour Prisms to customize some parts of it, but its not really extensive. You get facility slots and landmark slots to place buildings that do work for you, but you are locked to very specific plots. You can move them around at no cost and swap them with other built facilities after they are built though.

Production:
Right now, I have access to Granaries and Workshops. Workshops build items for an adjacent system using materials from the Gathering and Ranching systems, but they do not provide inventory items you can actually interact with. Granaries are your basic "Send-Critter-Out-Receive-Materials missions" these give items you can Gather + a rare item that may or may not be hand-gatherable.

Making Cash:
The workshops build items that are auto-sold off. These feed into a pseudo-stock market system that may or may not be managed player-wide as they have stated the entire thing is supposed to be bereft of player competition. Basically, theres a list of all producible items and each has a Current Demand, Stock, Future Demand, and Predicted Shift. You make decisions on what to build for the day and you get the currencies for the items when your workshops complete them. The currencies you receive are island specific currencies and divorced from the outside currencies.

Tie to World Outside: Barely there. The island is instanced. The cash you make from the previous system can be used on two merchants. These provide only cosmetics, some dyes, music, pets. You can also buy the latest 2 grades of gathering/crafting materia, which provides a decent bump to power for gathering/crafting gear.
Ill never understand the allure of games like this..
IMHO it sounds about as fun as doing your taxes LOL
 
Likes: ChAzZ_NuT
Feb 10, 2020
25
26
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#89
Thanks for that description buddy, that’s very helpful.
I would like to point out that this doesn't quite fit what Grummz was talking about originally.
In general, i would rate the Island system as part of the MMO Housing Sucks crowd, though it is somewhat better than usual.

It is somewhat customizable insofar as where facilities are placed within predetermined plots, though it lacks the base furniture system found in FFXIV's housing system already. There are cosmetics embedded in the buildings themselves.. Like grade of road going from dirt to wood to stone, etc.. But thats about it., and it kinda sucks.

Where it kind of shines is... There is a reason to go there. You want that currency so you can sell items for base game currency, or you want those dyes, minions, mounts, or cosmetics. You are basically able to produce currencies on timers without much effort(when you are levelled enough) that players who don't engage won't have. Its basically a few clicks and some running around. And that's A-OK.

So long as claim-staking is not necessary, and I can avoid it without my gameplay experience being affected detrimentally.
Segue time. Please realize for the following, I want to be able to impress my point, but am not trying to be personally insulting.

We have a chance here to have a system where the housing DOESN'T SUCK. It is possible to have housing that doesn't. As painful as it is to say, the only housing i know of that doesn't -completely- suck in an MMO game is Path of Exile, despite all the shenanigans they are pulling now on other things.

It is important to you. You are there a lot. It houses important workbenches and things you need as a player to make yourself stronger. The customizability is okay. Nothing ground-breaking or out of the ordinary. Its just your basic choose a tileset and place furniture.

You want to know how to make housing doesn't suck in MMOs?
1. Make there be a reason to put in the work to build, expand, and use it.
1A. Make using and protecting it rewarding within reason.
1B. Make it useful to outside gameplay.
1C. Make maintenance a negligible resource cost, or self-sustaining, or free.

2. Make it customizable
2A. Prefabs, Furniture, and skins is fine. But...
2B. Fully self-placeables with a Prefab option is the best of both.

3. If a cleanup system is needed to remove abandoned plots, then make it 30-45 days of the player not logging in and even then refund most, if not all, that they put in - in case they return.

1 is the most important. 2 helps. 3 just keeps things clean.
I say this as a ~5% raider, ~20% Builder, and ~75% combat focused player. I prefer solo-group based fighting and will build when necessary or I feel fancy. But the thought of an actually important housing system is exciting to me, because it could differentiate itself enough to be good.

Do me a favor, please. Imagine Grummz talking about some crazy 72-man extreme difficulty raid or even regular ass world combat with Kaiju and someone chimes in with:

"So long as fighting it is not necessary, and I can avoid it without my gameplay experience being affected detrimentally."

The fact of the matter is you do NOT deserve the REWARDS if you don't engage.
You aren't being penalized by the game. It is NOT taking things from you.
YOU aren't using the systems provided to maximize YOUR growth.
You aren't entitled to the benefits provided by ANY system, including claimstakes, if you refuse to engage just as you aren't entitled to the benefits of combat or raiding or kaiju murder if you refuse to engage.

You hamstring yourself. YOU affect YOURSELF detrimentally. Not the game.

I don't raid much at all in MMOs, yet i've never demanded raid quality gear. I've never demanded raids get removed or the gear nerfed.

So, later on down the road if you are in combat as a pilot because you got your frame blown up in a difficult fight and have to wait for a 5 minute timer for a reconstruct, maybe put more consideration into taking 5 minutes to build a Frame Catapult or silo in your claimstake so you can outfit a second frame with gear and have it sent to you instead of waiting.

And maybe tune up the jets on your dropship using your dropship workbench.
And maybe build the next tier of armor using your crafting benches.
 
Feb 10, 2020
25
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#90
Ill never understand the allure of games like this..
IMHO it sounds about as fun as doing your taxes LOL
Please don't be that reductive.
Combat can be reduced to speadsheets and decision trees just as easily.
I was just giving a clinical description of what I thought, and the actual implementation is lost without actually showing. In general, speaking of a housing system, its okay. Treating it as another system to earn money, then its fine.

The game is FFXIV. This is just a single system.
I doubt anything I say will change your mind, but Ill bite for the benefit of others.

It has its uses. Earning you cosmetics, dyes, mounts, and stuff. Even the base game currency if you put stuff on the market.
It even does this automatically on timers. I only have to visit once a day, I think, even though I spend much more time in there. Couple minutes running around and clicking things and I'm earning much a bunch of stuff i find useful. As opposed to running around and clicking things to kill them.

Harvest some junk, que for dungeons/pvp. Its progression somewhere in cases where I am waiting for a que to pop. Easily dropped into and out of (if the servers for the island were upgraded some more).

Basically, put in the work, get the rewards. Don't and don't.
I said before, admittedly after your post, it's kind of meh as a player housing solution. But there is some use in there so there's value to using it, which a lot of housing lacks.
 
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ChAzZ_NuT

Kaiju Slayer
Kaiju Slayer
Jan 22, 2017
100
205
43
#91
I would like to point out that this doesn't quite fit what Grummz was talking about originally.
In general, i would rate the Island system as part of the MMO Housing Sucks crowd, though it is somewhat better than usual.
I am aware that your description of another MMO's housing system does not fully align with what Grummz spoke about in the CC.

Whether or not if it sucks would depend on what makes a great MMO housing system in the first place, and I am not sure if there are any good examples of a great MMO housing system.


We have a chance here to have a system where the housing DOESN'T SUCK. It is possible to have housing that doesn't. As painful as it is to say, the only housing i know of that doesn't -completely- suck in an MMO game is Path of Exile, despite all the shenanigans they are pulling now on other things.
Yes, housing should not suck. I agree.


You want to know how to make housing doesn't suck in MMOs?
1. Make there be a reason to put in the work to build, expand, and use it.
1A. Make using and protecting it rewarding within reason.
1B. Make it useful to outside gameplay.
1C. Make maintenance a negligible resource cost, or self-sustaining, or free.

2. Make it customizable
2A. Prefabs, Furniture, and skins is fine. But...
2B. Fully self-placeables with a Prefab option is the best of both.

3. If a cleanup system is needed to remove abandoned plots, then make it 30-45 days of the player not logging in and even then refund most, if not all, that they put in - in case they return.

1 is the most important. 2 helps. 3 just keeps things clean.
I say this as a ~5% raider, ~20% Builder, and ~75% combat focused player. I prefer solo-group based fighting and will build when necessary or I feel fancy. But the thought of an actually important housing system is exciting to me, because it could differentiate itself enough to be good.
So long as I can still play the game, upgrade my mech, make currency, obtain material and customize my stuff without setting foot inside of a claim-stake or being required to.

I would much prefer to visit a PUBLIC hub where I can do all of this stuff around other people who I can interact/trade/team-up with, and I'd like to see people there using the crafting/ upgrading machines.

If you make it so we have to rely on Claim-Staking for these core functions of the game, then you introvert players and you take away a very special part of an MMO. Which is the public interactions.


Do me a favor, please. Imagine Grummz talking about some crazy 72-man extreme difficulty raid or even regular ass world combat with Kaiju and someone chimes in with:

"So long as fighting it is not necessary, and I can avoid it without my gameplay experience being affected detrimentally."
This is a terrible example, housing was never supposed to be a part of the game... let alone a necessary one that will detrimentally affect our experience in the game.

If housing becomes a core function of the game, required for us to progress. Then it will pull players away from the social hubs, where a lot of my most enjoyable experiences happened on Firefall.

We're talking about an MMO, there's a reason why people enjoy Massively Multiplayer games, and it might have something to do with the concept of playing a game WITH hundreds, if not thousands of other players... and being a part of the interaction with them! Promote group activity, promote public activity.


The fact of the matter is you do NOT deserve the REWARDS if you don't engage.
You aren't being penalized by the game. It is NOT taking things from you.
YOU aren't using the systems provided to maximize YOUR growth.
You aren't entitled to the benefits provided by ANY system, including claimstakes, if you refuse to engage just as you aren't entitled to the benefits of combat or raiding or kaiju murder if you refuse to engage.

You hamstring yourself. YOU affect YOURSELF detrimentally. Not the game.
I don't want to play an MMO where Claim-Staking forces me to do anything. I want the crafting, gathering, fighting, repairing, trading and everything else to be accessible in the public zones. Around other random people, who I can interact with, chat with, trade with, and play the game with.

I don't want Claim-Staking to be a good reason to pull players away from these public social areas.

This isn't about what we decide to do in the game, this is about the options that the dev's are going give us in the game.


I don't raid much at all in MMOs, yet i've never demanded raid quality gear. I've never demanded raids get removed or the gear nerfed.
Raiding encourages group activity, claim-staking doesn't, not really an example.


So, later on down the road if you are in combat as a pilot because you got your frame blown up in a difficult fight and have to wait for a 5 minute timer for a reconstruct, maybe put more consideration into taking 5 minutes to build a Frame Catapult or silo in your claimstake so you can outfit a second frame with gear and have it sent to you instead of waiting.

And maybe tune up the jets on your dropship using your dropship workbench.
And maybe build the next tier of armor using your crafting benches.
Let me do this awesome stuff in a public space too, I don't want to HAVE to use Introverted-Claim-Staking to customize my stuff.
 

PartTimeJedi

Em8ER Adjudicator
Staff member
Archon
Ember Moderator
Nov 13, 2018
1,317
2,933
113
Holy Terra
#92
Please don't be that reductive.
Combat can be reduced to speadsheets and decision trees just as easily.
I was just giving a clinical description of what I thought, and the actual implementation is lost without actually showing. In general, speaking of a housing system, its okay. Treating it as another system to earn money, then its fine.

The game is FFXIV. This is just a single system.
I doubt anything I say will change your mind, but Ill bite for the benefit of others.

It has its uses. Earning you cosmetics, dyes, mounts, and stuff. Even the base game currency if you put stuff on the market.
It even does this automatically on timers. I only have to visit once a day, I think, even though I spend much more time in there. Couple minutes running around and clicking things and I'm earning much a bunch of stuff i find useful. As opposed to running around and clicking things to kill them.

Harvest some junk, que for dungeons/pvp. Its progression somewhere in cases where I am waiting for a que to pop. Easily dropped into and out of (if the servers for the island were upgraded some more).

Basically, put in the work, get the rewards. Don't and don't.
I said before, admittedly after your post, it's kind of meh as a player housing solution. But there is some use in there so there's value to using it, which a lot of housing lacks.
Oh I ment no disrespect to those who do enjoy games like FFXIV or Tab games in general.
Ive been playing videogames since the early 1980s. In all my years ive tried different RTS, Tab fighting etc games and they just are not my cup of tea.
From my original post, I was making the observation that the type of game mechanics that get FFXIV players or tab-fighting game players excited for are not the same things that get shooter players excited.
This goes back to Claimstakes.
I made the observation that I was betting most backers who are in Em8ER because it is primarily going to be a skill based shooter at its core look at the Claimstake situation as- "Meh, who cares"
On the flipside, Im betting many tab-fighting style gamers i.e. FFXIV, are super excited about Claimstakes.

That is all :)
 

Pandagnome

Kaiju Slayer
Fart Siege
Welcome Wagon
Happy Kaiju
Jul 27, 2016
7,813
10,115
113
Island of Tofu
#93
3. If a cleanup system is needed to remove abandoned plots, then make it 30-45 days of the player not logging in and even then refund most, if not all, that they put in - in case they return.
What if you could have options such as

A) Owner of house not occupying can request a House guardian who could be a friend during the time the owner is not there to look after home and maintain.

B) Passing Ownership to Reaper council which turns home to public home, if owner is not available longer than 3 months due to e.g. illness or other issues. (This way it will be good for all and once returned all your hard work supporting the house will be rewarded by the Reaper council and owner of home will see who has helped)

C) This option to return stuff as you mentioned could be the final and i feel an automated message should be sent to the owner to let them know before that happens.


The fact of the matter is you do NOT deserve the REWARDS if you don't engage.
You aren't being penalized by the game. It is NOT taking things from you.
YOU aren't using the systems provided to maximize YOUR growth.
You aren't entitled to the benefits provided by ANY system, including claimstakes, if you refuse to engage just as you aren't entitled to the benefits of combat or raiding or kaiju murder if you refuse to engage.
Combat will be a good part of it and there are also other things involved in the game such as

- Repairing structures/ vehicles / Meks
- Healing team mates / Pets to keep going
- Sabotaging / scanning behind enemy line causing internal problems on opponents side.
- Crafting repulsor parts to help push attackers away

Some might not be directly involved in the combat but they still help so reward should still be distributed well unless you are doing nothing hmm.

Let me do this awesome stuff in a public space too, I don't want to HAVE to use Introverted-Claim-Staking to customize my stuff.
You don't have to but there can be the option to though right?
 
Likes: ChAzZ_NuT
Feb 10, 2020
25
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#95
I would much prefer to visit a PUBLIC hub where I can do all of this stuff around other people who I can interact/trade/team-up with, and I'd like to see people there using the crafting/ upgrading machines.
Why stop those hubs from being player built?
Ideas about player cities and such were being bandied about, and that could easily be done by allowing groups of personal claims. Hell, they could even give bonuses to participants in a grouping.

That solves the "I personally don't want to do it" problem.

You'd craft in a public player built hub rather than a dev placed one.
I don't get where this introverted solo player thought process comes from.

In builders my friends and I are always going "Look at what I built. Here's the workshop, this is my bedroom, blah blah". Building is a social exercise. We're always peeking at what the other is building and stealing ideas. Heck, people much crazier than my group go into detailed recreations of existing buildings or come up with some crazy builds that look awesome.

This is a terrible example, housing was never supposed to be a part of the game... let alone a necessary one that will detrimentally affect our experience in the game.
It was meant as an exercise, but while we're on this note...

Grummz literally brought this entire system up himself.
As something he wanted to add and flesh out.
They developed a small teaser for it.
He explained why it would help them in the future and also bring more people to the game.
Grummz is currently still arguing for it.
It seems like it is intended to be part of the game to me.

The system is in its infancy now. They could add a bunch of group friendly options for all anyone knows. Off the top of my head:
Claim Invasions. Gather a group and fend them off for rewards. Scale it to the number of people you have.
Grand or group-scale Crafting Projects for establishing another warfront or heavy machinery for a warfront.
Player built hub buildings and cities. Players could design part of their claim as a bar or club for hangout spaces.
Strike Missions and Raids. You and your group head to an instance to accomplish some random set of goals.
Silos. Player claims could hold silos for masses of resources that can be sent to warfronts.
War Workshops. They can be where tanks and multiple-person vehicles are built and stored.

There's so much they could add to make the entire thing useful and group friendly, yet a large number of people seem to believe that Claimstakes are just a solo thing, can only be a solo thing, and will never amount to anything but a vanity project.

We're talking about a pioneering wargame where physicalization is a feature that Grummz seems excited about.
Where are your frames stored? Your Tanks? Your Resources? Your dropship?
Or hell, the cities' tanks, resources, and dropships?
Place them prominently on your claimstake and you could show them to others and ask for build suggestions or go out and try your new build with them.

We're talking about a system that if designed to do so, your guild could be spread all across the planet and be part of different city communities and also a couple members get together to build a guild hall in another that you all can gather at and use as well; so instead of being steeped in a single guild community you have two or more with your home city, your guild, and the city surrounding the guild hall, and just your small group of friends.

This could lead to cities focusing on the nearest warfront due to proximity, and socializing revolving around what warfront is nearby. You basically live and fight together.

I mean, we could have a separate grouping system for claimstakes where players are automatically lumped together by adjacency and can form a larger hex called a village which will give them benefits somehow. A couple adjacent villages together forms a town with larger benefits. A couple towns forms a city with even more. This would encourage players to clump together and join a city rather than just spread themselves across the planet. You could have separate chat channels for each of your groupings.. Village Chat, Town Chat, City Chat. Where you could talk to your neighbors, your town, or your entire city.

Not sure how it'd work technically, but it sounds cool to me. You might have to have certain limits to encourage the forming of other cities elsewhere on the planet instead of having one megacity.
 
Feb 10, 2020
25
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#96
Oh I ment no disrespect to those who do enjoy games like FFXIV or Tab games in general.
No problem, man.

From my original post, I was making the observation that the type of game mechanics that get FFXIV players or tab-fighting game players excited for are not the same things that get shooter players excited.
You'd be surprised. I play FFXIV because my friends are there and it actually scratches a lot of different itches. Relaxing and chilling, low-intensity combat, high intensity combat, sweat-inducing Thread-The-Needle combat. PVP, crafting, random minigames, group-but-no-group-needed events.
There's a lot to bite into later on, but yeah if you don't enjoy the base combat system I don't see much reason to stay. For us, its the one MMO we go back to frequently just because it does hit a lot of spots that are satisfying to hit.

Earlier, i didn't realize what you meant by tab-fighting. I know it by Tab-Targeting instead.
And yeah, I get it, Tab-Targets and Shooters are different.

I don't think anyone is expecting you to spend most of your time or even a sizeable amount of time in your claimstake. Its supposed to be a base of operations and manufacture facility from what I can garner. Go there, build some stuff with your resources, drop off the rest of your haul, pick up the supplies you built earlier and head out to gather more. In and out in five or ten minutes unless you feel fancy and want to custom build something instead of drop a workshop prefab and a few benches to kick off crafts for things you need... which will then always be there for you to use later, no further building required.

Or... you want to say hello to Bob, who's skulking around your frame bay and sneaking a peek at your combat loadout.

But yeah, thats the magic of building.. Once its there, its there ready for use.
 
Feb 10, 2020
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#97
What if you could have options such as
No problems with A from me. In FFXIV the guild can own a house, and the guild will own that house until no one from that guild logs in for a certain amount of time. It could work something like that, except you designate like 3 or 4 friends that serve that purpose for you.

I don't think I agree with B. Let the new guy build his own custom or a prefab if someone's plot is considered abandoned. They didn't earn the resources to build what was there, so they shouldn't get a big ol' abandoned mansion for free.

C is a given. I figured it'd be handled by a mail system where they can go to a post-box to pick up their stuff.

Combat will be a good part of it and there are also other things involved in the game such as

- Repairing structures/ vehicles / Meks
- Healing team mates / Pets to keep going
- Sabotaging / scanning behind enemy line causing internal problems on opponents side.
- Crafting repulsor parts to help push attackers away

Some might not be directly involved in the combat but they still help so reward should still be distributed well unless you are doing nothing hmm.
Love it. Yeah, i could see and want repairing and healing to happen for combat. Reward different playstyles. Support roles need love.

I never said combat wouldn't and shouldn't be the focus of the game. I'm just curious as to how taking ten minutes to plop down a prefab or two and a few benches so you can kick off automated crafting recipes and return to the fight be a downside. I come from FFXIV, where crafting is literally equatable to fighting a mob, albeit without moving.

Once you set your buildings down they are set and good to go when you return. Instead of another ten minutes when you return it only takes a couple to do basic upkeeping such as getting your stimpacks and repair drones and setting more stacks to manufacture. You can waste much more time shopping.

Let me do this awesome stuff in a public space too, I don't want to HAVE to use Introverted-Claim-Staking to customize my stuff.
You don't have to but there can be the option to though right?
This is a sticky point. But i don't think claimstakes are as introverted as people think. Its can be an expression of yourself. Or memes. What and how you build can tell people a lot about you, given enough freedom. Whether you might be an interesting person to them or not. Personally, i'd rather talk to the guy that made the dong-house over someone who only prefabbed to get out as soon as possible.

Anyway... Where would your stuff go in a public area?

It'd generally be regulated to a public facility that instances stuff. If you had the ability to house your Frames in a public garage, i could see it going different ways.

1. You see your Frames in the garage. You'd tell an NPC or something to show you someone else's instead. Like how instanced housing within a single building works in other MMOs.
2. If there's a kudos or upvote system then you'd probably only see like the top voted frames and others would never be seen and would have to tell the NPC you want to view yours instead.
3. Cycling True Random, but this is like 2 where you need to tell the NPC you want to see your stuff.

And this building probably have to look like a giant car vending machine. Maybe it could show other people's frames at random on the upper floors...Or they coul handwave it and say its an underground garage andonly show a couple at a time. But for the entire building; with the varying sizes of the frames, you could end up with a light frame being showed off in a gigantic bay that could house a Heavy. Seems messy to me, but it could work.

I'd personally be happier with bays on my own claimstake. Seeing builds slowly evolve as I add different weapons or change out gear is always good in my book. It hits different seeing your stuff in the same spot, having changed over time... as opposed to maybe seeing your frame once in a public gallery... maybe.

So it could work like this.. Say they allow you to have 1 main frame and 2 backup frames. or hell, just 3 frames with separate loadouts you like.

You can build 3 bays. Doesn't matter what size, you only get 3. You can build ANY permutation of Light, Medium, Heavy and can repeat sizes.
Want to be a light specialist? 3 Light Bays.
Heavy? 3 Heavy Bays.
All rounder? One Each.
These can displayed out in the open on your claimstake for any passerby to see. They can run up and inspect the frame to see your gear if they want. And yell at you that you have terrible taste in weapons and you both argue for the next hour over the best weapon set. Or they compliment you.
Unless you mark your bays private for some reason. In that case they only see an iron screen.

Or you could build a garage and keep them hidden away anyway.

Also, holy crap, when did Joe build that spider tank?
 

ChAzZ_NuT

Kaiju Slayer
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Jan 22, 2017
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#98
I don't get where this introverted solo player thought process comes from.
Quite simply put, it comes from the uncertainty of how the Claim-Staking is going to be done. If it ends up being primarily an instance where players will sustain themselves without needing to visit the primary hubs on the handcrafted map. Then this may be leaning into the solo-playstyle, and pulling away from the busy bustling main-hubs. Again, this is an MMO after all.

It depends on the intricacies of the system, so we won't know until we have something on paper that lists; "This is how we plan on doing it."



It was meant as an exercise, but while we're on this note...

Grummz literally brought this entire system up himself.
As something he wanted to add and flesh out.
They developed a small teaser for it.
He explained why it would help them in the future and also bring more people to the game.
Grummz is currently still arguing for it.
It seems like it is intended to be part of the game to me.
Whether it was an example or an exercise, you were making a comparison with something which was always going to be and is a very expected core aspect of the game; Shooting.

Claim-staking on the other hand, was presented relatively "out of the blue" as being a major core aspect of the game. One of the very first things the player will interact with, and it seemed pretty unavoidable and very forefront. You have to respect the fact that people wanted to jump on the breaks and fully understand the idea before it may be implemented.

I'm not saying it can't be a great thing, It would just be nice if it was down on paper in some kind of detail so we know what to expect a bit better. And then we'd be able to critique it more accurately.

So that's why I think the comparison is a little poor, but other than that. Yes, claim-staking could be a very awesome thing. It just really depends on how, give us something to sit down and read. And then instead of hesitance and premature backlash, you'll get constructive critique on the specific details.

And I am aware that Grummz very well may have just been testing the waters, throwing the idea to the sharks and seeing what will happen. If that is the case, I'm sure he'll be conjuring up something for us to read over at some point.



This is a sticky point. But i don't think claimstakes are as introverted as people think. Its can be an expression of yourself. Or memes. What and how ... you
Don't get me wrong, I'm really liking some of your ideas for pushing a more group-orientated Claim-staking system.
 
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Pandagnome

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#99
I don't think I agree with B. Let the new guy build his own custom or a prefab if someone's plot is considered abandoned. They didn't earn the resources to build what was there, so they shouldn't get a big ol' abandoned mansion for free.
I think it is a temporary solution if no one has friends or not trusting of others to take care of their home while they are not there. So who better to ask than the Reaper council who could act as home alliance Reaper estate agents.

Since some players may not be interested in homes but would rather have the option to hop to someone's or have use of a public home/base and contribute to using this.

The differences could be that a typical Reaper public base would require more resources / ingame currency due to the larger size and defensive features it may have compared to a player home.

Some may also be apprehensive to build their own base/home due to losing it from invasions, complete distruction from a mega opponent or even from neglecting maintenance etc.


So the Reaper council could hold the place for the time and folks who use the place would have to pay ingame currency or use resources to do so, just like you would when renting a place in a shared temp home until the owner returns.

If this does occur a notice is shown explaining that you agree to repair / maintain the home to its original state and pay any tax set or the consequence of the GCSF enforcers will guide you to the council.

Then you either help the owner or face a deduction to your next pay from your future jobs, which goes to the owner and % goes to the running of the GCSF!
 
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