Chief Chat "CLAIM STAKES 2" VOD - 8/05/2022 (Builds v1.3.1 and v1.3.2)

[Mahdi]

I’ll echo what I said in the other thread about people getting upset at not having “everything” available. I agree fully with Grummz in the other CC about watching who does a 180° spin in their arguments about the paywall vs not wanting claimstakes at all.

People aren’t going to agree on everything and I hope Grummz finds the successful route while not facing to too much outcry influence. The paywall is a challenging aspect and many sensitive to such things are going to be utterly turned off. I’m personally ok with either direction of the claimstakes. I won’t discontinue my sub regardless of what content I want to experience unless the project is fully abandoned.

I’ll reiterate the timeliness of it and this should be a back burner aspect to kickstarter. Could be the next milestone, no problem, but hold off on it until after we see success from the kickstarter.

One thing that I do not recall hearing addressed in either CC with the claimstakes is yes, I get the open world aspect, I get the bubble idea but remember this unfriendly little AI that is destined to map wipe the planet to restart the loop. What happens to the claims then? Is this an answer to ghost town claims?

 

[Pandagnome]

been poking around the forums and people seem to think the game should be a 1:1 of Firefall only. They skirt around the word Successor like a plague while calling it up when it suits them.

Shooting is going to be a part of the game so i can see why because the shooting and movements was very good in Firefall. Saying that it is just only one part of the game so there is certainly going to be more than this i'd think.

Anything to do with resource gathering is just points on a scoreboard, which is what the resources felt like to me when I played. There wasn't a whole lot to do with them so every single one felt worthless once you crafted that one gun you wanted. The only thing it felt like there was to do in Firefall was just shoot things and defend a base, which sure.. Is fun. For a while.

Do remember resources could be used to craft vehicles such as lgv and to repair etc
I don't think crafting is worthless, there should be selective path ways of what we would like to craft, as an example:

Crafting -> Apparel --> Social outfits --> Swimwear
--> G-Suit --> G-suit zero prototype
--> Armor --> Armadillo Armored Arm sleeves
--> Head gear --> Monster cookie hat
--> Pet --> Ghost tail
--> Accessories --> Medical Backpack
--> Footwear --> Yike just stryke it casual sneakers
--> Mount gear --> Ear bonnet glow worm v1
--> Seasonal outfit --> St patricks Green Kaiju onesie

Having choices means you can craft for something you like, not just weapons and other things that effect the game. The issue is for some crafting is not for them, and they enjoy the pew pew plop pow zap KAbLEWY.

If crafting is done well I'd think most would at least craft something once even if its in some active tutorial.
Then i could say some may not have the patience to learn the process of crafting and would rather hop in a game do what they enjoy and hop out.

Depends really on the kinds of players and their preference not forgetting how much time the player can play the game for.

I was in the demo chat and someone tried listing the fun things of Firefall. In essence the list was: Combat, combat, combat, combat, combat...
It made me think about my time in game and yeah...
That was about it.

I can list a few such as:
- Racing (lgv)
- Missions / job boards
- Thumping
- Exploring and finding new areas (gliding, on foot, use of vehicles)
- Events (chosen captures or when Dev's appear as chosen)

The crafting was interesting due to how they used resourced, but felt.. Eh. One monolithic machine that did everything at the press of a button. The UI was pretty, but i didn't really engage it all that often.

That machine was quite nice for new players or anyone to find in Copa. I'd imagine there will be a greater progression in crafting with Em8er which would benefit those who like to take it to another level.

I like the UI as well and truely love the sounds and the effects, i am looking forward to how the sounds are going to be in Em8er not just for the UI in general ...ah and the music too!

Some people don't I get it. But reading these forums, it seems like everything that takes you away from shooty shooty bang bang will be vehemently protested and summarily killed. It seems like these forums would find someone who hasn't left-clicked while a crosshair is on a bad guy in the last 60 consecutive seconds and kick them out of the game themselves.

It may seem like there are more shooty shooty fans and i believe there are other fans of other games too.
I am a fan of super mario kart and its fun game

The longevity of FXIV in my circle is the fact that you feel like a part of the world. You aren't JUST a vessel of destruction. You are, and can be... But its not all there is. Your character lives there. They have ties to everything, whether you choose to engage those things or not and it's all viable.

I agree to feel as you belong in the world and have the purpose that is meaningful to the player.

remember this unfriendly little AI that is destined to map wipe the planet to restart the loop. What happens to the claims then? Is this an answer to ghost town claims?

If the place gets wiped then i'd imagine mobile homes and bases would be affected. The pod homes won't get destroyed in the Sky base, instead they may work less efficiently with whats going on reserving power due to the chain reaction of the problem on ground.

I guess new claims could be made or to recapture the area that once was and claim it back!

Ghost towns claims i wonder who would go for that hmm and would the remnants of these so called towns have salvageable materials?

 

[jake_speed#6680]

Do remember resources could be used to craft vehicles such as lgv and to repair etc
I don't think crafting is worthless, there should be selective path ways of what we would like to craft, as an example:

I craft all the time, just not in while in FF. I maxed a couple crafting classes in FFXIV.
I mean there wasn't a whole lot to do with crafting in FF, nor a whole lot of reason outside of I need consumables or a gun/armor upgrade.

But yeah, crafting vehicles and repairing I forgot about. But those three things was it, yeah?
I looked up FF vehicles and I can see that one lgv was craftable. i don't see anything else. I could be wrong. Article was last updated in March 2014.

Anyway, agree with the paths. Even better if you can work on them all.
I prefer to be self-sufficient where reasonably possible.

I can list a few such as:
- Racing (lgv)

I forgot about this. But, that's the only thing not related to fighting things.

Exploration is a small of a stretch as it isn't directly I'm going to fight things, but I count it as exploring mostly means finding things in enemy infested areas.

It may seem like there are more shooty shooty fans and i believe there are other fans of other games too.
I am a fan of super mario kart and its fun game

Yeah, I play an eclectic variety of games. But yeah, the lion's share of the shooty gamers are on the forums. The large problem is on the forums you are talking to hardcore players and we all know the general rule to catering to only your hardcore players.
Everyone else is skating by.

Hell, according to F.A.I. , i think, I lurked mostly for two whole years.
THIS is the issue that got me fired up.
And the forum crowd is what made me finally say something.

 

[zdoofop]

I think a solution to balance the 2 complaints could be to have subscribers have real estate on the planet, but non-subs simply get a small apartment on the Home station with the same functionality.

 

[Pandagnome]

I mean there wasn't a whole lot to do with crafting in FF

There was some mainly towards the Battleframe but i hope in Em8er there will be more for a mixture to craft other things e.g. variations of glider wings etc.

prefer to be self-sufficient where reasonably possible.

Yes me too because i have had times where i'd like to do something and hardly anyone would do that since they do speed runs or something else. So this made me go my own pace and work on crafting and missions took longer though i did enjoy that aspect of doing stuff in my own as well too.

I count it as exploring mostly means finding things in enemy infested areas.

There were exploration achievements too such as going to the peak of an area and finding an engraving or message etc Those helped me get an idea of where the good areas to use my launcher for gliding or just ride off a ramp even though my bike caught on fire quite often!

according to F.A.I. , i think, I lurked mostly for two whole years.
THIS is the issue that got me fired up.
And the forum crowd is what made me finally say something.

Lots of lurking and i am glad your involved within the forum topics because it is for everyone plus the forum is great \o/

I think a solution to balance the 2 complaints could be to have subscribers have real estate on the planet, but non-subs simply get a small apartment on the Home station with the same functionality.

The only reason to opt for a home on the ground is to have more space and customization or is there more?

What is the consequence of those in apartments compared to the bases on the ground.
E.g.

Ground bases more likely to be targeted depending on area of claimstake
Apartments are in the safety of the home station.


Does the Station and apartments get affected by the issues on the ground or even by flying enemy types. If so would we have the opportunity to use these for defense or any of the defense turrets on the station and so on?.


I like to suggest if homes on the ground get affected so could apartments indirectly.
This means even though the apartment wont get wiped it will be affected by a slower crafting speed or lighting could flicker oddly at times etc.

This would encourage us to help take over the zones so that our homes can function efficiently as it once did. For our reapers on ground to support them to get back their homes or for them to rebuild again.

This will give a sense of purpose and satisfaction once we do and everyone plays a part because if we let them take over way too much they may get too greedy and powerful :O

 

[zdoofop]

The only reason to opt for a home on the ground is to have more space and customization or is there more?

More space, but also more environment choices. Space apartment is space apartment, planetary base has different possible biomes.

 

[DerpAlert]

Hoo boy did this kick up a stink apparently. First time back on the forums in 2 years, normally I just watch the vod replays on twitch as the chief chats are always 4:00am Australian time, see how the game is progressing, and continue on with my day. But since it was brought up in the video, decided to check out what all the fuss in the forums was about. I dunno, it all seems overblown, it definitely seemed unliked, at least as the introduction to the game.

As for the claim stakes going to subs for free, don't quite know where I sit on that. If they are server resource intensive, giving them to everyone for free is probably a bad idea. Giving them to subs for free while non-subs have an in game way of purchasing them seems better, but will still probably leave non-subs feel like they are missing out or behind subs.

So what do subs get? Skins, specifically high grade skins. Skins are meant to be a resource sink to be able to advance their grade. Not very cooperative for a PvE, us VS the kaiju game. So what do the subs sink their resources into since they don't have to upgrade their skins? The terraformers.

If you make the "fee" for buying/leasing a land stake a contribution of materials to the terraforming process, instead of those materials just disappearing from the group effort against the kaiju for a "selfish" reason, it promotes the war effort. And although it will force the non-subs to pick between spending their materials on upgrading the skin they want or towards their land stake, if they don't care about the cosmetics, they will be on equal footing with the subs with regards to getting their land stake.

 

[punkbuzter#6186]

The complaints or constructive criticism gives another view in comparison to other views. Together this can help build a bigger picture of ideas / possibilities.

I am sure Grummz has his own vision and with the community and Team crixa brainstorming out loud it is great even if it may get super spicy mount kaiju volcanic chaos.... ok maybe not that HOT

A red firey kaiju pops out of nowhere in twitch or appears in forum when it gets extra SPICY

Just like in mortal kombat

There is NO constructive criticism if there's nothing to criticize, which is exactly what's going on here.
Grummz came up with an idea, a very basic idea of players being able to claim a spit of land, and what 10 people are doing here is arguing about the details which was never said, literally making claims that this or that would make or break the game when nothing about it has ever been put to the test.
Literally, it's words against words with no foundation to anything other than claimable land, which also has no foundation other than Grummz's word.

Stop bitchin' about it and wait till we have something concrete to test.
YES, everyone present during the Chief Chat (25 out of 37000) actually said something, half of those gave the thumbs UP, and 10 people out of those 25 were negative in forum...

Are you or anyone in here gonna tell me that these 10 people complaining in here is gonna steer the entire boat with everyone else in it, the remaining 36990 people on how this game's gonna turn down an idea from its lead developer? How is that even justified???

Give me a break...

 

[punkbuzter#6186]

If the answer is NO, the 10 people is not gonna steer the boat, then put this whole discussion to rest already! Grummz has understood that the community of 25 people were 50/50 on this idea, and he has also understood that the rest of us (the 36990) is waiting for kickstarter to happen just wants the train moving, anticipating results. They don't care for discussions such as this, they just want a good game, which is what Grummz wants to deliver, except he's hitting some roadblocks on the way.

 

[punkbuzter#6186]

Hoo boy did this kick up a stink apparently. First time back on the forums in 2 years, normally I just watch the vod replays on twitch as the chief chats are always 4:00am Australian time, see how the game is progressing, and continue on with my day. But since it was brought up in the video, decided to check out what all the fuss in the forums was about. I dunno, it all seems overblown, it definitely seemed unliked, at least as the introduction to the game.

As for the claim stakes going to subs for free, don't quite know where I sit on that. If they are server resource intensive, giving them to everyone for free is probably a bad idea. Giving them to subs for free while non-subs have an in game way of purchasing them seems better, but will still probably leave non-subs feel like they are missing out or behind subs.

So what do subs get? Skins, specifically high grade skins. Skins are meant to be a resource sink to be able to advance their grade. Not very cooperative for a PvE, us VS the kaiju game. So what do the subs sink their resources into since they don't have to upgrade their skins? The terraformers.

If you make the "fee" for buying/leasing a land stake a contribution of materials to the terraforming process, instead of those materials just disappearing from the group effort against the kaiju for a "selfish" reason, it promotes the war effort. And although it will force the non-subs to pick between spending their materials on upgrading the skin they want or towards their land stake, if they don't care about the cosmetics, they will be on equal footing with the subs with regards to getting their land stake.

Just sell cosmetic shit in the store like Path of Exile, Em8er's gonna have one either way so why not fill it too with some content, separate sales gonna generate more money regardless, why else does most Subscription games struggle to stay alive end up with a free2play model selling cosmetics that makes them afford further development? Probably because most people are more willing to spend a little every now and then rather than committing to monthly payment, which is NOT in the model of Em8er... It's Buy2Play with cosmetic sales.
Btw, sorry you've joined during such a cancer-period in development.

 

[punkbuzter#6186]

I think a solution to balance the 2 complaints could be to have subscribers have real estate on the planet, but non-subs simply get a small apartment on the Home station with the same functionality.

That's a step into elitism, where the people with more money gains more benefits and gets to flash their fancy wallet in-game... Sell cosmetic stuff for the claims in the store. That way you don't lock content out from everyone else, and it becomes a question of details, who has blinking lights and who's not.
It's also a step into Pay2win, because such claims would have minable materials which an apartment back on the mothership doesn't. And that's an ABSOLUTE NO, zero tolerance from me.

 

[punkbuzter#6186]

For anyone who would like to continue discussing the topic of paid methods, head over here.
https://forums.em8er.com/threads/concerned-about-p2w.2287/#post-68768

 

[vadio#5055]

Well its come with pretty easy solution....

1 - First house plot and all objects is tied in game cost.. not any easy value to archive
you wonder why....
2 - Give us possibility to excharge cash vs gold in game like GW2 Do... GW2Spidy | Gem Exchange
Its part of Economy Sink , And Reward Players have alot time to grind and help players have less time to play and its per se overall win to company as well that increase generate income , and not relay need put any kind content behind paywall as depend sales , they dont even need charge for dlc or xpac

At this point you probably connect dots how system work across all spectre
3 - If player not pay upkeep , all item are send back to they storage
and 25% of all house materials is lost , you wonder why not 0%
3.a - Economy sink
3.b - Penalty for rage quit
3.C you can descontrcut at no resource penalty and unclaim plot

Forget add its add another layer option , to people dont like grind thump or craft
they can grind "ares" aka money for itself

 

[farias]

3.b - Penalty for rage quit

Please not this one!
Some people will be punished just for having bad internet connection.

 

[vadio#5055]

I just put there , if you stop play... and dont unclaimed you plot , small penalty need exist
if you keep pump resource and dont have enough sink or need for "gold" whole idea of excharge
Swap Gold <--> Cash can fall a part , maybe you can do progressive 1 week without 5% , 1 month 25% i Know boys its controversial... but any basic understand about how economy work , you going figure out if Permanent stuffs exist , economy die , in fact its other subject/topic to discuss Economy x Craft Game loop

 

[DerpAlert]

Just sell cosmetic shit in the store like Path of Exile, Em8er's gonna have one either way so why not fill it too with some content, separate sales gonna generate more money regardless, why else does most Subscription games struggle to stay alive end up with a free2play model selling cosmetics that makes them afford further development? Probably because most people are more willing to spend a little every now and then rather than committing to monthly payment, which is NOT in the model of Em8er... It's Buy2Play with cosmetic sales.
Btw, sorry you've joined during such a cancer-period in development.

Im well aware of Em8er's monetization model and the existence of the cosmetic shop. The subscription is to the cosmetic shop itself. I was talking about the skins that drop in game at low grade then you have to upgrade to mid and then high/peerless grade using materials.

Several people in this thread have mentioned just buying the land stakes for a period of time using materials, I was merely offering a reflavouring of that idea from a fee to own a land stake, to a reward for contributing to the terraforming. Either way it's still spend X resources to get your land stake.

 

[Sy]

Are you or anyone in here gonna tell me that these 10 people complaining in here is gonna steer the entire boat with everyone else in it, the remaining 36990 people on how this game's gonna turn down an idea from its lead developer? How is that even justified???

Give me a break...

Okay, I'll bite.

You don't seem to know how development works or how communication works with developers or with Grummz.

In development, most ideas are completely private. Sometimes little pieces are demoed and might become available for closed alpha testers. Ideas are not given to the public in any form because the public (that's us), and to dispense with nuance, are stupid.

We are in a rare position that as backers (and other interested people) we are recognized enough to have ideas spitballed as they are made. We've given ideas in Discord which have directly inspired and influenced things. We are recognized and thanked for that, although intentionally not with direct credit (likely for legal reasons). The community aren't developers and don't technically have a voice. Grummz has said more than once that all things come down to his dictatorial decision and this is nothing near a democracy.

What's happening, and what you've misunderstood multiple times, is that we can talk about things and have Grummz think from angles he hasn't before. We give him more things to think about to make decisions with new content in mind.

So when you see on Discord and the forums "Ember should be this", what developers are actually reading is "this is an additional idea for you to think about". The number of people talking about anything really doesn't have as much to do with things as you think (or even as devs might say); it's the eloquence of what's being said conveying new perspectives.

Maybe you weren't there, or maybe you don't remember, that a reply of mine was specifically read out. I was called out for telling him what to do and for that I was politely told to go fuck myself. Politely. My comments were then read respectfully and considered. Grummz is neither unthinking nor a pushover.

Again, the chorus of people doesn't matter. Ideas, even when duplicated, give new perspectives and don't force decisions.

You don't need to feel like you must be the voice of balance for anything, to be loud in opposition or loud in support. What you need is to be eloquent in getting unique points of view across.

 

[Pandagnome]

There is NO constructive criticism if there's nothing to criticize, which is exactly what's going on here.
Grummz came up with an idea, a very basic idea of players being able to claim a spit of land, and what 10 people are doing here is arguing about the details which was never said, literally making claims that this or that would make or break the game when nothing about it has ever been put to the test.
Literally, it's words against words with no foundation to anything other than claimable land, which also has no foundation other than Grummz's word.

Stop bitchin' about it and wait till we have something concrete to test.
YES, everyone present during the Chief Chat (25 out of 37000) actually said something, half of those gave the thumbs UP, and 10 people out of those 25 were negative in forum...

Are you or anyone in here gonna tell me that these 10 people complaining in here is gonna steer the entire boat with everyone else in it, the remaining 36990 people on how this game's gonna turn down an idea from its lead developer? How is that even justified???

Give me a break...

No don't think we are arguing just putting our views across.

Not everyone can make the chief chat please keep that in mind, and if some may sound negative what are the reasons, perhaps those who might be concerned or wondering how it could be?

Let folks continue their discussion unless its toxic or causing a mega problem, i don't think it is but you seem to be bothered by some?

End of the day @Grummz and the team will make the changes if suitable or not, you can rest assured steering comes from them!!

 

[FCM]

Btw, sorry you've joined during such a cancer-period in development.

Spoiler: Im sorry for polluting this chat again but hey thats why i make it a spoiler

i am so confused
last forum thread was relatively peaceful, without many "ordering" anything from grummz
sure the returns were mostly negatives but it all revolved around how the beginning of the game experience was thought to be looking like, and were opinions not requiring anything else but be discussed or clarified
Many people who took part were worried because they thought the game would be heading in a way that wasnt what they gave money for, can you really blame them ? not only that, they remained very civil about it, giving opinions more as advices or possible options, instead of requiring something to be done, and while i already apologised earlier because i forgot that too many negative opinions on a small space can be overwhelming, they were just that, negative opinions, and as you said, told by only a few people
i believe grummz to be experienced enough to make good choices

What i remember from the topic was that they wanted to be introduced to combat before the crafting and building when entering the world, and yes they wanted the building and crafting to be secondary, but what can be secondary to them can be primary to others, as long as it remains an important part of the game, people will interact with it
and i dont think they thought it requires crafting and building to be placed in the dark realm of "nice little option for a few more bucks per months"

how did this end up as "cancer" ?
How can we formulate opinions without being classified "cancer" then ? Dont give any ? Then why did the forum thread was created ? Just for positive opinions ?

if anything i would like to know what grummz wants in all of this, sadly i cant make it to chief chats often due to timezones, so my questions are likely to never be answered, like my original questions of "do we really need a world that big" and "how will it sustain itself if not that many people play the game"

I dont think i'll interact more here anyways, its getting too confusing, i'll just refrain from giving my opinion about the game anymore and stick to my original "dont know anything about the game until launch" since its the only thing that seem to not attract bad events these days

 

[punkbuzter#6186]

No don't think we are arguing just putting our views across.

Not everyone can make the chief chat please keep that in mind, and if some may sound negative what are the reasons, perhaps those who might be concerned or wondering how it could be?

Let folks continue their discussion unless its toxic or causing a mega problem, i don't think it is but you seem to be bothered by some?

End of the day @Grummz and the team will make the changes if suitable or not, you can rest assured steering comes from them!!

Grummz had a revolutionary idea, the loud minority spoke against it, Grummz changed the concept into something that can be viewed as P2W, and the loud minority seemed to agree that this was a better idea... I think that's a major problem, the original idea wasn't a problem because for it to be a problem we first have to find the problems, meaning, we need a test build. Until that happens of course there isn't a problem unless the loud minority turns it into a problem, which they are doing in here

Okay, I'll bite.

You don't seem to know how development works or how communication works with developers or with Grummz.

In development, most ideas are completely private. Sometimes little pieces are demoed and might become available for closed alpha testers. Ideas are not given to the public in any form because the public (that's us), and to dispense with nuance, are stupid.

We are in a rare position that as backers (and other interested people) we are recognized enough to have ideas spitballed as they are made. We've given ideas in Discord which have directly inspired and influenced things. We are recognized and thanked for that, although intentionally not with direct credit (likely for legal reasons). The community aren't developers and don't technically have a voice. Grummz has said more than once that all things come down to his dictatorial decision and this is nothing near a democracy.

What's happening, and what you've misunderstood multiple times, is that we can talk about things and have Grummz think from angles he hasn't before. We give him more things to think about to make decisions with new content in mind.

So when you see on Discord and the forums "Ember should be this", what developers are actually reading is "this is an additional idea for you to think about". The number of people talking about anything really doesn't have as much to do with things as you think (or even as devs might say); it's the eloquence of what's being said conveying new perspectives.

Maybe you weren't there, or maybe you don't remember, that a reply of mine was specifically read out. I was called out for telling him what to do and for that I was politely told to go fuck myself. Politely. My comments were then read respectfully and considered. Grummz is neither unthinking nor a pushover.

Again, the chorus of people doesn't matter. Ideas, even when duplicated, give new perspectives and don't force decisions.

You don't need to feel like you must be the voice of balance for anything, to be loud in opposition or loud in support. What you need is to be eloquent in getting unique points of view across.

I think I said "Grummz's idea" which would imply that development is mostly private, except for this instance when he was excited to reveal his grand idea (a mistake he shouldn't have done until much later).

I have been part of well over 30 alpha's, closed beta's, and open beta's, to know how things work.

Yepp, I know ideas have been inspired from Discord, only difference with this one is that the community of 10 people only upvoted the exact same idea once it was put under suspicious P2W monetization. Which is where I come in and say no, go back to original idea cuz if there's gonna be even the slightest hint of P2W in their store imma make a scene about it.

"Test first, complain later", that was what I wrote as my reaction to all the complaints he received both on Discord and here in Forum. I was a fool to think that'd be enough, and I felt bad for not speaking louder.
"Where was your support, you usually make monster posts" Grummz asked, he literally outright asked for my support defending his idea, tho I had been dealing with Discord already and figured "Test first, complain later" would suffice to shut people up about the complaints until we have something to complain about. I just don't understand how people can go through with such effort whining about something we've never tried, like if you complain to the chef how bad his food tastes before you even had a taste... It's impossible, my mind is actually blow to pieces.