Some suggestions:

[Dam13n]

EAT YOUR DAMN VEDGIES!!!!!

The constraint and power allocation system from (OB) Firefall was awesome and a streamlined and more ui friendly version implemented in Ember i would definitely appreciate. Craft smart, not purple.

A lot of the complaints imo came from the 1000 shades of resources, that you had to recraft your gear instead of repair it and at the end when it was breakage on usage not just breakage on death. I think if those issues would have been addressed less people would have complained about it.

But there will probably always those who don't like it and those who don't mind. Whether it's necessary for a satisfying gameloop we can debate till the end of forums, idk, that's a though one. I do see the stick and carrot use of it.

Immediately not being able to use your gear after a world tier drops seems kind of extreme to me though, not being able to repair it and players not making IG money, etc from the resources not dropping makes more sense to me.

 

[Maven]

Immediately not being able to use your gear after a world tier drops seems kind of extreme to me though, not being able to repair it and players not making IG money, etc from the resources not dropping makes more sense to me.

For the sake of clarity, your higher tier weapons/gear will remain useable even if the corresponding world tier drops, until they are completely damaged and nerfed. You simply cannot craft or repair them, until you reclaim the world tier.

 

[Dam13n]

For the sake of clarity, your higher tier weapons/gear will remain useable even if the corresponding world tier drops, until they are completely damaged and nerfed. You simply cannot craft or repair them, until you reclaim the world tier.

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Ah, that makes more sense.

 

[PartTimeJedi]

For the sake of clarity, your higher tier weapons/gear will remain useable even if the corresponding world tier drops, until they are completely damaged and nerfed. You simply cannot craft or repair them, until you reclaim the world tier.

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I understand the mechanic. I again stress, In general, punishing a player through no fault of there own is not an attractive feature for a great many video game players.
I may personally not like it, But I am love with the game idea as a whole and back whatever decision is made regarding this.
But I can see this causing strife in the future, mainly with attracting new players when the game launches and the mass of ex-FF players who are not as invested as we backers are. But hopefully it wont.

 

[Pandagnome]

I think this would bring players together than divide many of us.
Some play in tight groups or some alone but when this happens then we all have that common goal to help we may even find new folks we have never encountered before at this time and friend etc.

Also it is like when there is a huge disaster in the real world and communities all have to help each other out because it is affecting us and our world and its going to die if we dont do anything about it we must save it before we all doooooomed !!!!!!!!!!

 

[PartTimeJedi]

I think this would bring players together than divide many of us.
Some play in tight groups or some alone but when this happens then we all have that common goal to help we may even find new folks we have never encountered before at this time and friend etc.

Also it is like when there is a huge disaster in the real world and communities all have to help each other out because it is affecting us and our world and its going to die if we dont do anything about it we must save it before we all doooooomed !!!!!!!!!!

Im looking at it more from history.. When implemented in FF Beta the community went bonkers. History usually repeats itself. We all want the best outcome but I worry..
I also want to reiterate that I am 100% in full support of whatever decision the devs/community make. Not trying to start a fire here.

 

[Dam13n]

Item decay kinda just suffers from a marketing issue. Consumables are more accepted this while they decay on usage, while item breakage on death would be less punishing yet generally more disliked.

It will really depend on how it is implemented and how players perceive it.

 

[PartTimeJedi]

It will really depend on how it is implemented and how players perceive it.

ABSOLUTELY!

 

[Dam13n]

ABSOLUTELY!

An old suggestion i made about this would be that the gear itself doesn't break but a more universal component, like a gem for example (in this case the sci-fi version of it). This is something that some games use and goes down easier.

This would also not impact lower tier players as much or at all as these items would be more "end game" items.

It feels less painful to lose a more generic component that you put into your awesome gun™ than to lose the gun itself. Mechanically it's the same but it feels different.


edit; i called it the "here comes the airplane method", ah good times.

 

[Pandagnome]

Im looking at it more from history.. When implemented in FF Beta the community went bonkers. History usually repeats itself. We all want the best outcome but I worry..
I also want to reiterate that I am 100% in full support of whatever decision the devs/community make. Not trying to start a fire here.

History could change too because we can learn from the past mistakes and make alterations & feel that there is a lot of planning this time round i am hopefully optimistic, because we have great community members here who actually care and share their views just like you and many others!

This would also not impact lower tier players as much or at all as these items would be more "end game" items.

So these gems i'd imagine are precious and look good would these gems be a conduit to transfer the energy required to utilize the gun optimally?

If this is just a component would that mean there are different grades of gems and if so how would it affect the weapon?

As an example lets say there are 3 gems

-Green Radiant gem this could be your basic gem - Degrades faster but easy to replace
-Blue storm gem this could be your higher grade gem -Degrades medium and replacement takes time
- Gold solar gem this could be your most precious gem - Degrades steady and takes longer to replace

Why would replacing take time as you go up in gem grade perhaps the more precious the gem the more complex it is for replication or even repair.

It feels less painful to lose a more generic component that you put into your awesome gun™ than to lose the gun itself. Mechanically it's the same but it feels different.

If i understand this right, a gem component in the gun would eventually break and need replacing or to be repaired. Since this would feel like the precious gun is safe but it is the issue with the component.

Until this world tier can be restored the gem is going to be the issue not the actual gun but the result will be the same.

I understand what you mean if i was a new player and heard that our guns would break could think oh it wont ever work but if i did hear about the component in the weapon could break then it makes me think ah well its part of the gun but the gun is still ok hmm.

 

[Dam13n]

So these gems i'd imagine are precious and look good would these gems be a conduit to transfer the energy required to utilize the gun optimally?

If this is just a component would that mean there are different grades of gems and if so how would it affect the weapon?

As an example lets say there are 3 gems

-Green Radiant gem this could be your basic gem - Degrades faster but easy to replace
-Blue storm gem this could be your higher grade gem -Degrades medium and replacement takes time
- Gold solar gem this could be your most precious gem - Degrades steady and takes longer to replace

Why would replacing take time as you go up in gem grade perhaps the more precious the gem the more complex it is for replication or even repair.

Yep, you really could do lot with a gem system instead of gear breakage imo.

Plus it's generally more accepted by gamers that not only it breaks on death but even decays on usage as it's often used as a consumable in games. It could be breakage on death, a consumable or both versions could exist next to each other with each their perks and cons.

The item would never be truly useless even without a gem.

Some gems could be more powerful than others, etc.
The possibilities are extensive.

The funny part is that it's mechanically the exact same thing as item decay, just wrapped in a very enticing bow.

The "here comes the choo choo train" method.

 

[EvilKitten]

Edit- where did you read about the mobs/Kaiju being weaker when the WT goes down? If that's the case then everything equals out, weaker weapons and gear vs weaker enemies.. interesting

I remember it from a previous chief chat but from some time ago. Maybe not weaker enemies, but weaker enemy groupings or something. I remember that Em-8er was intended to have a fairly flat power curve compared to regular MMO's, but there would still be some alongside the horizontal progression from world tier advancement. This might be a good thing to ask Grummz again to see what his current thoughts are. Much has changed since this game first was pitched.

 

[PartTimeJedi]

I remember it from a previous chief chat but from some time ago. Maybe not weaker enemies, but weaker enemy groupings or something. I remember that Em-8er was intended to have a fairly flat power curve compared to regular MMO's, but there would still be some alongside the horizontal progression from world tier advancement. This might be a good thing to ask Grummz again to see what his current thoughts are. Much has changed since this game first was pitched.

Much Appreciated!

 

[Ronyn]

There is still quite a bit to be revealed on this subject, let's not get ahead of ourselves.

I feels to me adding a Negative Frustration mechanic to a game that is in large part a SKILL BASED SHOOTER is not going to help make it a great game. I completely understand that Em8er will have crafting as a major component and everything crafted will slowly break down, become less effective over time/use. I hope the Devs can find another way to tie this to the war in general besides a mechanic that punishes players for no fault of their own in a game that relies heavily on SKILL.

I want you to keep two things in mind.

1: You keep stressing the point of "Punishing the player through no fault of their own". .... I hear your concern on that but..well...Here is the thing
Exactly HOW the gear will take durability damage has not been revealed. It would not be wise to assume that there won't be a skill based component to it. As I mentioned before, in some games, like WOW for example, durability loss is a consequence of death, it doesn't just happen by itself. Em-8er may well use a system similar to that.
Or, for another example, armored core. Where the player had to pay more for repairs based on how much damage was taken to the mech. There are several ways to add a skill component to the concept of maintenance. Do not assume that "through no fault of their own" is applicable here on Em-8er.

2: As others have pointed out, and as you know...Durability loss and gear effectiveness loss is not permanent. Gear can be repaired. Depending on how hard it is to keep in in good repair, it may not be that hard to maintain for the average player.

Let me add that this system is EXTREMELY different than when firefall had the mechanic of permanent gear loss due to breakage. Suggesting that peoples concerns about firefalls old durability system (permanent breakage that is not a common system in MMO's) apply to em-8ers durability loss and repair (a relatively common system in MMO's) is not logical. In one system you need to repair your gear using common currency, in the other system you have to go recreate it with exactly the same rare materials you used previously to make it. These are not equatable durability systems.

EAT YOUR DAMN VEDGIES!!!!!

I just want to be super clear on this right here..
We are not using the "eat your vegetables" philosophy here on Em-8er.
There were many aspects of firefalls crafting systems and gameplay loop that we intent to retain and built upon. However, we are coming at it from a very different stance than suggesting that as long as we give you stuff you enjoy doing that you will just have to deal with stuff you don't because it is allegedly good for the game.
Sure, the game will challenge you, enemies will kick you in the teeth, and there will be things to keep up and maintain... but every decision is made with the hopes that it will increase your overall gameplay experience.

 

[PartTimeJedi]

There is still quite a bit to be revealed on this subject, let's not get ahead of ourselves.


I want you to keep two things in mind.

1: You keep stressing the point of "Punishing the player through no fault of their own". .... I hear your concern on that but..well...Here is the thing
Exactly HOW the gear will take durability damage has not been revealed. It would not be wise to assume that there won't be a skill based component to it. As I mentioned before, in some games, like WOW for example, durability loss is a consequence of death, it doesn't just happen by itself. Em-8er may well use a system similar to that.
Or, for another example, armored core. Where the player had to pay more for repairs based on how much damage was taken to the mech. There are several ways to add a skill component to the concept of maintenance. Do not assume that "through no fault of their own" is applicable here on Em-8er.

2: As others have pointed out, and as you know...Durability loss and gear effectiveness loss is not permanent. Gear can be repaired. Depending on how hard it is to keep in in good repair, it may not be that hard to maintain for the average player.

Let me add that this system is EXTREMELY different than when firefall had the mechanic of permanent gear loss due to breakage. Suggesting that peoples concerns about firefalls old durability system (permanent breakage that is not a common system in MMO's) apply to em-8ers durability loss and repair (a relatively common system in MMO's) is not logical. In one system you need to repair your gear using common currency, in the other system you have to go recreate it with exactly the same rare materials you used previously to make it. These are not equatable durability systems.


I just want to be super clear on this right here..
We are not using the "eat your vegetables" philosophy here on Em-8er.
There were many aspects of firefalls crafting systems and gameplay loop that we intent to retain and built upon. However, we are coming at it from a very different stance than suggesting that as long as we give you stuff you enjoy doing that you will just have to deal with stuff you don't because it is allegedly good for the game.
Sure, the game will challenge you, enemies will kick you in the teeth, and there will be things to keep up and maintain... but every decision is made with the hopes that it will increase your overall gameplay experience.

Thank you Ronyn. Much appreciated. Didn't mean to stir anything up. I look forward to the challenges the Devs cook up!

 

[Pandagnome]

EAT YOUR DAMN VEDGIES!!!!!

I thought Dam13n was empowering his vegetarianism but i was sadly mistaken.

Thank you Ronyn. Much appreciated. Didn't mean to stir anything up. I look forward to the challenges the Devs cook up!

AAh stop it i am getting hungry it better be tofu

 

[Omnires]

What about the idea of modular weapons that players can take apart and put together on the fly?

For example, let's say that I have an high power railgun that I use as a sniper rifle. But I'm going into a closed off area where there most of the fighting is going to be close range rather than long range. So rather than using a different gun I just take the sniper barrel off the base of the gun and attach a much shorter barrel that turns it into a shotgun or a tesla gun or an electrified harpoon gun that acts like the mother of all tasers.

I was thinking about this when I was thinking about storage in mecha. Because there is only so much space on the body that you can hold and/or mount a weapon to before it starts to effect how you move, if at all if you go over the mass limit of what your legs and maybe your arms can hold. And one way to avoid having to carry around one gun of a different type is just make a gun where you can switch out parts super easy and fast. This saves on both space and mass because rather than having to carry 4 different guns around, you just need to carry 4 different gun barrels or attachments.

 

[VRK9]

About the perma-break or other lose equipment features.
i don't like games where we can lose our equipment, like perma-break feature or survival games with full loot drop, hardcore players can say that those features are essencial to have things to do in those games because they just spend a few hours getting the resources to make those items only to lose them in a few hours later with bad luck.
But casual players can take weeks or even months to get those resources only to lose those equipment in a few hours later with bad luck too, so in most cases they tend to leave those games.
And according to my experience, those games are like the pay to play game business model, a lot of companies tried it but very few could survive with that, because since only hardcore players keep those games, when they start to drop the game dies.



I like the idea of the "gem" system, in that feature weapons and equipment could be untiered but the "gem" could be tiered, and we need to repair the equipment and the "gem".
But if the base tier drop from tier 3 to 2, we just need to switch our tier 3 "gem" to tier 2 and keep playing, this could save a lot of inventory space. We could ask Mr. Grummz of what he thinks about it.



Just another thing, I suggested the following but it seems it was lost because the break system discussion, so i ask it again:

What if tsi-hu and kaiju could adapt during the fight with more players they defeat just by using the weapons/modules... from the fallen players?

In this case, if a player got defeated by a tsi-hu and kaiju, the tsi-hu could use their plasma canon and deepstrike ability and the kaiju could use their homing missile ability.

Could this be interesting or maybe too OP?

 

[Dam13n]

Seems like they mostly mean to have repair as low key maintenance.

I'll keep standing by that for implementation as making resources a carrot, having more robust sinks and faucets and a power curve directly tied into these, imo a gem system or in this case let's say a quantum crystal system is a direct upgrade from item breakage.

It even makes more sense in abilities as these would partially power them.

It could be produced from a byproduct of refining resources so where the resources would mostly go to the world tier, the common goal, the byproduct would be desirable and valuable to higher end players, thus also a resource for lower level players to make IG money.

Another example when a world tier drops and we need to retake a post, the "decay on death" crystals become unobtainable but a version that's more powerful, like an overcharged unstable one time use version becomes easily obtainable (as we would have to be temporarily more powerful instead of less powerful to retake a base).

These would be more expensive and less easily obtainable in times of peace so reducing their usefulness (only for example for huge boss fights, etc), when replacing one crystal with another you might need to break your previous one, etc.

There are a lot of buttons and pulleys possible in this system imo.

 

[Mahdi]

Many things have been answered by Evil, Maven and Ronyn so the only reminder I want to put out there to address the 'punishing players' is remember the A.I. will be designed to wipe out the world at some point. Each large scale invasion repelled will engage a power curve in favor of the Tsi-hu. Each time we successfully defend, what ever the time will be set for, the next assault will be more powerful. So when that stronger wave comes our way and we have a low population on to fight back, no one is punished unfairly. It becomes a world set back.

One other thought as I type this, we dont know the speed of which we can terraform to regain the world tiers. Many here know that the chosen would take over the map on multiple servers during low population times but only a handful of skilled (and geared) players could take back the map within a couple hours. I put trust in the team for developing a balanced time frame between opening world tiers to map wipe. We do want that replayability to be successful here, folks.

I personally plan to have my own salvage yard for optimization in load outs based on my mood of play style and world tier. But that is a personal goal I have set to make damn sure I am loving Em-8ER for and looooong time.