It's highly possible that not all classes will have a huge mek. I can see snipers with minimal armour, but maximum stealth. Something along the lines that the military is working on now that makes soldiers almost invisible.
Likes:
MollilMayhem and Adrian
The game is going to be built around the frame. The Kaiju are not the only creature we are going to encounter.
Imagine a spore creature grunt going down and exploding into 10 - 20 smaller grunts, all trying to chew your ankles off, or exploding on contact, and you think twice about hitting it to start with.
Avatar 2 will be here soon, so some ideas might come from that.
All is good, and the frame will evolve.
Imagine a spore creature grunt going down and exploding into 10 - 20 smaller grunts, all trying to chew your ankles off, or exploding on contact, and you think twice about hitting it to start with.
Avatar 2 will be here soon, so some ideas might come from that.
All is good, and the frame will evolve.
Yea, your right. I was kind of mixed up 2 of the 3 sub-groups on that one the. The 3 sub-groups are being fully manual, fully autonomous, and semi-autonomous. Westerns tend to think of fully manual and semi-autonomous mecha rather than fully autonomous ones. I felt that mindset might be shifting a bit to included fully autonomous mecha as A.I. start to play more of a role in stories. Well at least in a few of the sci-fi circles I'm in. Plus there the mecha that switch between 2, if not all 3, modes going by the situation (for example, the A.I. of a mecha might switch to autonomous mode when the pilot is sleeping or injured and it is too dangerous for them to be outside of the cockpit. But then switching back to semi-autonomous or full manual when the pilot inputs commands.). Thank for helping to clear that bit up just in cause my words were too unclear as to the meaning behind them.
In Tribes 1, the chaingun ended up being one of the best sniping weapons out there, especially for sniping a distant fleeing target with a flag whilst chasing them yourself. This was because the chaingun began with the first few bullet being dead on target, with a very long range and a fast projectile, before spinning up. Once that was mixed with scripting so that the trigger was pulsed at just the right frequency, it became a deadly ranged weapon with a very high ammo efficiency.
Just say'in.
Just say'in.
My point was that the spinfusor (and a good number of other slow projectile weapons along with it) didn't become an amazing sniping weapon by virtue of not having randomized spread on shots (If it was, long range shots and midairs wouldn't be nearly as impressive). The CG was only mentioned because it is intended to have spread. It's pretty clear that you can get range limitations without cramming randomization into the player's input.
Quake would be another viable example, but it's more often played in smaller maps, and they tend to be more cramped. Tribes, on the other hand, places an emphasis on large open maps, and it's easy to find a video describing the sort of scenario I'm talking about
Quake would be another viable example, but it's more often played in smaller maps, and they tend to be more cramped. Tribes, on the other hand, places an emphasis on large open maps, and it's easy to find a video describing the sort of scenario I'm talking about
1. My english? other 4 language speak better..., world not only english language...
2. my no like mean my first impresion.
3. Its a overwatch diva copy for me.
2. my no like mean my first impresion.
3. Its a overwatch diva copy for me.
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NitroMidgets
I saw some mention randomized spread.
It doesn't have to be randomized. I cannot remember what it was like in Firefall before the changes, but weapons should have a fixed spread, and by that I simply mean that when you'd start shooting with e.g.: a heavier machine-gun, it'd start climbing, spraying some bullets to the sides as the muzzle climbed. So one would have to compensate (where player skill would enter) by pulling your aim back down, acting against that climb from the recoil. You'd still miss with a few bullets that would stray to the side, but you'd have to keep it on target and through mods, the spread could be reduced.
Recoil and spread shouldn't be wild, though, but it should definitely create a clear divide between weapon-effectiveness at different ranges. If someone wants to whittle some stronger, more agile oppenent's HP down from afar with a chain-gun or some big-ass, heavy weapon that has the largest mag-size and fire-rate by far, then good luck. They'd have a ton of ammo, but more than half or even 2/3 of their shots should/would miss, because a weapon like that wouldn't be suitable for sustained, long-range, accurate fire. Otherwise we'd have the same disappointing shit I saw in Blacklight Retribution, where someone with an assault rifle could snipe more effectively, from long-range, than someone with a sniper-rifle, because recoil and spread meant nothing and even if it had the weapon had high fire-rate and mag-size, so it was completely unbalanced.
It doesn't have to be randomized. I cannot remember what it was like in Firefall before the changes, but weapons should have a fixed spread, and by that I simply mean that when you'd start shooting with e.g.: a heavier machine-gun, it'd start climbing, spraying some bullets to the sides as the muzzle climbed. So one would have to compensate (where player skill would enter) by pulling your aim back down, acting against that climb from the recoil. You'd still miss with a few bullets that would stray to the side, but you'd have to keep it on target and through mods, the spread could be reduced.
Recoil and spread shouldn't be wild, though, but it should definitely create a clear divide between weapon-effectiveness at different ranges. If someone wants to whittle some stronger, more agile oppenent's HP down from afar with a chain-gun or some big-ass, heavy weapon that has the largest mag-size and fire-rate by far, then good luck. They'd have a ton of ammo, but more than half or even 2/3 of their shots should/would miss, because a weapon like that wouldn't be suitable for sustained, long-range, accurate fire. Otherwise we'd have the same disappointing shit I saw in Blacklight Retribution, where someone with an assault rifle could snipe more effectively, from long-range, than someone with a sniper-rifle, because recoil and spread meant nothing and even if it had the weapon had high fire-rate and mag-size, so it was completely unbalanced.
Alright wow, i'm trying to be funny and i have a gigantic hatred for low levels of english, but i guess he's a bit better than my classmates. On the other hand, i wouldn't join anything that's not english or french, since it's the only 2 languages i can speak (i've been learning italian for 3 years and i still don't know anything, won't ever use it too anyways.)
I have no idea how to write in russian and don't even know more than 4 russian words, da, niet and RUSH B CYKA BLYAT
I have no idea how to write in russian and don't even know more than 4 russian words, da, niet and RUSH B CYKA BLYAT
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Vedemin
On bullet spread, recoil, etc. conventional weapons being on a mech doesn't mean that it fits the same size weapons as your standard foot-soldier. Many years ago the standard assault rifle moved away from the heavier, more powerful 7.62mm round and down to the 5.56mm version, which is a pretty standard NATO size these days. 5.56 does provide a bit of a kick and forget about accuracy if you are on automatic fire.
So, you fit a standard 5.56mm based rifle onto a mech with massively increased strength and strong recoil dampeners, of course you probably won't get much recoil and can track a target with fully automatic fire.
However, a 5.56mm round would probably not do much damage to our alien antagonists, especially the kaiju versions, so a 7.62mm heavy assault rifle/machine gun would more likely be the order of the day and on the mech this could easily be handheld and fired with some accuracy from the hip, with minimum but some recoil and bullet spread on auto. This is something your average infantryman would struggle to do with any sort of decent effect.
You could even amp that up to an even larger round, say a .50 cal that can only be fired effectively from a mounted position (e.g. a mech) but would still have to be aimed to be effective as well as produce recoil and spread. You could also reduce RoF for safety and mechanical reasons as too many rounds through a barrel in a short space of time heats up the barrel, introducing barrel warp and possibly even damage to the working parts. Not to mention any gas operated re-chambering mechanisms while simple in design are notorious for clogging up with gunpowder residue and need to be cleaned constantly or the weapon will stop chambering the next round and stop firing.
Anyway, to cut a long story short, a large calibre round fired from a hefty machine gun on the mech will still produce some recoil and I do hope in Ember this will be the case.
On the omniframe, yes, I do not like the design much but my opinion is only one in many. However, what I can say is that we've only seen a couple of pictures of it and until we actually get to play the thing and see how it handles, I'll reserve judgment on it. I'm sure if, once the alpha/beta is up and running, that Grummz and his team will assess the design and if it doesn't really fit or they're just unhappy with it, they'll come up with a plan. Until then, let's get all the pieces we have together and into a playable testing environment.
So, you fit a standard 5.56mm based rifle onto a mech with massively increased strength and strong recoil dampeners, of course you probably won't get much recoil and can track a target with fully automatic fire.
However, a 5.56mm round would probably not do much damage to our alien antagonists, especially the kaiju versions, so a 7.62mm heavy assault rifle/machine gun would more likely be the order of the day and on the mech this could easily be handheld and fired with some accuracy from the hip, with minimum but some recoil and bullet spread on auto. This is something your average infantryman would struggle to do with any sort of decent effect.
You could even amp that up to an even larger round, say a .50 cal that can only be fired effectively from a mounted position (e.g. a mech) but would still have to be aimed to be effective as well as produce recoil and spread. You could also reduce RoF for safety and mechanical reasons as too many rounds through a barrel in a short space of time heats up the barrel, introducing barrel warp and possibly even damage to the working parts. Not to mention any gas operated re-chambering mechanisms while simple in design are notorious for clogging up with gunpowder residue and need to be cleaned constantly or the weapon will stop chambering the next round and stop firing.
Anyway, to cut a long story short, a large calibre round fired from a hefty machine gun on the mech will still produce some recoil and I do hope in Ember this will be the case.
On the omniframe, yes, I do not like the design much but my opinion is only one in many. However, what I can say is that we've only seen a couple of pictures of it and until we actually get to play the thing and see how it handles, I'll reserve judgment on it. I'm sure if, once the alpha/beta is up and running, that Grummz and his team will assess the design and if it doesn't really fit or they're just unhappy with it, they'll come up with a plan. Until then, let's get all the pieces we have together and into a playable testing environment.
Likes:
Omnires
Personally, I'm against having recoil in a sci-fi mostly because a lot of game devs don't seem to know how real weapons work and just add recoil on things that shouldn't have recoil on them. Or making recoil on guns away more powerful than they really are for reasons. There are lots other ways to balance guns in games other than relying on the recoil and spread, but as I keep pointing out not all guns have recoil or spread. I'm a big fan of the idea of game devs actually learning how weapons in real life are designed, built, and work so they fully understand how the guns in their games should handle and be balanced without always relying on recoil and spread as their go-to blanket stats everything.
Anyway, I'm not totally against the idea of recoil and spread in sci-fi games as long as they make logical sense. And your post does point out how and why recoil can still exist in the game. Although I feel that until to learn more about the inner working of the Omniframes can't be really sure on how much recoil reduction will happen as just part of a natural function of the platform itself.
I think a lot of games would be better if the devs of sci-fi games paid more mind to what sci-fi fans who know about real science are talking about. Because at our core we just want things to make logical sense not break rules just because.
P.S. The Omniframes are less armored version of the powered armor in Ghost In The Shell.
Anyway, I'm not totally against the idea of recoil and spread in sci-fi games as long as they make logical sense. And your post does point out how and why recoil can still exist in the game. Although I feel that until to learn more about the inner working of the Omniframes can't be really sure on how much recoil reduction will happen as just part of a natural function of the platform itself.
I think a lot of games would be better if the devs of sci-fi games paid more mind to what sci-fi fans who know about real science are talking about. Because at our core we just want things to make logical sense not break rules just because.
P.S. The Omniframes are less armored version of the powered armor in Ghost In The Shell.