PDF Game Vision Book Next Week - Sneak Peak Next Fundraiser

Mallot

New Member
Mar 16, 2017
21
12
3
#22
I really hope there's work being done all the time... 5 moths for a model, with rigging and animations, with a mockup art showcase is pretty slow. Then another 2-3 months for a player character?
 

Mallot

New Member
Mar 16, 2017
21
12
3
#24
WE AIN'T GOT FULL TIME PEEPS. THEY ALL WORKING PART TIME AFAIK. AND IT WAS ONLY 1 GUY WORKING ON THE MODELS.
The guy I know would've gotten the model done in a couple of days work... Probably only costing 1000-2000. I don't know how quick, or expensive, animators are, but I don't think these animations are especially spectacular.

This kind of art demo should not be costing $20k, and it should not have taken 5 months. I think a budget at $5k and deadline of a week, would be a much more realistic goal. Even if they're working "part time", they can just hire in freelancers, which will cost more than inhouse modeling/animating (quite apparently it didn't though, somehow), but for such a small project it's well worth it.

At this rate, the game will need 20 years to get to beta.
 

Grummz

Administrator
Ember Dev
Jul 25, 2016
630
5,213
93
#25
The guy I know would've gotten the model done in a couple of days work... Probably only costing 1000-2000. I don't know how quick, or expensive, animators are, but I don't think these animations are especially spectacular.

This kind of art demo should not be costing $20k, and it should not have taken 5 months. I think a budget at $5k and deadline of a week, would be a much more realistic goal. Even if they're working "part time", they can just hire in freelancers, which will cost more than inhouse modeling/animating (quite apparently it didn't though, somehow), but for such a small project it's well worth it.

At this rate, the game will need 20 years to get to beta.
(Edit: When "I know a guy" is your main argument, you know you are way off base already)

Hi, first off, making a game model that has to work well in a game is different from modeling something static just to show off in a non-functional way. Even so your estimates are off by an order of magnitude. Let's break it down:

1) Fully rendered orthographic drawings to being modeling
2) Color studies for texture work
3) Rough form modeling to check scale and proportions.
4) Refinements to rough model, and iteration.
5) Hi-poly Z-brush sculpt (millions of polys).
6) Lo-poly version and LODs created.
7) Lo-poly rigged for animation and tested.
9) Careful quad placement and UV unwrapping of the model for minimum texture warping.
10) Materials created for PBR shader on model, of which there can be several.
11) Painting of those materials onto the model with weathering.
12) Iteration of the materials, hi-poly mesh and lo-poly mesh.
13) Final output, baking of normal maps, diffuse maps, AO maps, etc.
14) Animations
15) Iteration on Animations
16) Creating the animation graph and blend states
17) Hooking up animation graph to game logic and creating an NPC behavior tree

This is what you claim is just "a couple days work." When we created the Firefall characters, with a full time team of 7, it took 3 months to finish one model. 7 people, working full-time for 3 months at average industry salaries is almost $50,000. Not $2000. Go to any 3D outsourcer and get quotes. I did get a quote for animation from an outsourcer, and it was $14,000 for the THMPR alone to rig and animate. I luckily found some passionate part-timers to do them instead and we were able to fit it in our very small budget.

Consider that the milestone raised also covers the Omniframe, not just the THMRP as you imply. We also created a square kilometer of terrain, weather effects, and hired a server programmer to begin work on mutiplayer, as well as concept out our player charcters and pay for design work for the game to lay out the features and scope of the game in the vision book.

I can go on, but I know you are just here to troll. If this flamebait continues we'll move it to the appropriate section.
 
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Grummz

Administrator
Ember Dev
Jul 25, 2016
630
5,213
93
#26
I'm going to add that we've taken steps to increase production speed.

1) I am full-time on Em-8ER now. For both design and client side coding, as well as sound effects, animation graphs and terrain shaders and sculpting. I'm now also doing the sound effect work in ProTools and purchased sound libraries and plug-ins to help. (my design rate on consulting for other game projects is $350/hr. You do the math for the discount I'm offering on Em-8ER because it's my passion project).

2) We staggered the milestones. I've partially paid for the modeling of the male and female humans. When we do the fundraiser for these, they will be nearly done and we can concentrate on animation and scripting.

3) Since we are staggered, it means work on the Tsh-Hu will begin while we are doing the humans, so when the Tsi-Hu milestone goes up, the models will be partially done and be faster to complete.

We will do a milestone very 2 months. Here's what's left to go:

1) Human male/female characters
2) Tsi-Hu alien and beast mode
3) Coding the final playable mockup, including final animations, sound FX, particles, etc. and creating a playble THMPR encounter from start to finish.
 
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Grummz

Administrator
Ember Dev
Jul 25, 2016
630
5,213
93
#27
I'm going to add that we've taken steps to increase production speed.

1) I am full-time on Em-8ER now. For both design and client side coding, as well as sound effects, animation graphs and terrain shaders and sculpting. I'm now also doing the sound effect work in ProTools and purchased sound libraries and plug-ins to help.

2) We staggered the milestones. I've partially paid for the modeling of the male and female humans. When we do the fundraiser for these, they will be nearly done and we can concentrate on animation and scripting.

3) Since we are staggered, it means work on the Tsh-Hu will begin while we are doing the humans, so when the Tsi-Hu milestone goes up, the models will be partially done and be faster to complete.

We will do a milestone very 2 months. Here's what's left to go:

1) Human male/female characters
2) Tsi-Hu alien and beast mode
3) Coding the final playable mockup, including final animations, sound FX, particles, etc. and creating a playble THMPR encounter from start to finish.
Staggering means milestones that take 4 months to do are delivered in 2 months. The team takes the risk by working for free prior to funding to accomplish this. We put our faith in the game and our backers.
 

Rocket

Gatestrider - T.H.M.P.R.
Max Kahina
Jul 26, 2016
184
274
63
Australia
#30
I really hope there's work being done all the time... 5 moths for a model, with rigging and animations, with a mockup art showcase is pretty slow. Then another 2-3 months for a player character?
He hasn't said this in his replies above, but it's actually the 3D printing (and painting for 6 of them) of the THMPR models that is delaying things. It's taken far more time than @Grummz originally anticipated, and he can't do another fundraiser without clearing all goals from the last one first. Indigogo would crucify him otherwise.
 

Mahdi

THMPR Inbound - Gatestrider - Firstclaimer
Jul 26, 2016
429
726
93
Montana, US
#32
The more track that gets laid with progress the more people like this will show up. Honestly, even in confrontation Em-8ER will get more press coverage. 97% of our near 5k members here are in full support of our awesome team. From reading the forums daily I have to give a shout out to that Nanotechnician dude.

Bro, you be da man, for real. From the constant politeness and extremely informative responses. Grats to you.

....i would have said da bomb, but bombs are Torgue's specialty. And offendeding him would mean a cyber nuke to my phone. Since the move its my only form of net...sooo...please don't do it Joey!
 
Likes: Faeryl

Grummz

Administrator
Ember Dev
Jul 25, 2016
630
5,213
93
#35
Physical goods have been a big slowdown. For example I'm still cleaning support structures and gluing THMPRs together. Book that needs to be physically printed also a problem for time.

In the future we will focus on digital exclusives and physical things that are not detracting from game dev.
 

EvilKitten

Gatestrider
Base Commander
Jul 26, 2016
548
894
93
#36
Physical goods have been a big slowdown. For example I'm still cleaning support structures and gluing THMPRs together. Book that needs to be physically printed also a problem for time.

In the future we will focus on digital exclusives and physical things that are not detracting from game dev.
Just curious, but what if you did model kits rather than shipping out fully put together replica's for the omni-frame. I remember once making a few model planes where I had to pull all the little parts off of the sprues and glue them together myself and it was kinda fun. If you remove having to build each model yourself I would imagine that would drastically cut down on the amount of time needed to get the models shipped out. You would of course need to make an instruction booklet and such but that would be a one time deal that you can print off for everyone (or just have a PDF link on the website to save even more).
 

NanoTechnician

Emberite - THMPR - Deepscanner
Jul 26, 2016
328
430
63
Australia
#37
Game development pre alpha time lines to release:
Elder Scrolls Online : 07-14 >2y pre alpha>7 years total
StarWars: ToR 06-11 >2.5y pre alpha>5 years total
Guildwars: 2 07-12 >1.5y pre alpha>5 years total
Spore: 00-08 >2y pre alpha>8 years total
Fallout 3 02-08 >1.5y pre alpha>6 years total
Morrowind 96-04 >1.5y pre alpha>6 years total
TF 2: 99-07 >1.5y pre alpha>8 years total

TL;DR Rome wasn't built in a day.

@Grummz "A mental image of you and your family pasting bits of plastic on the floor on a Saturday morning". :)
 
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Astro

Gatestrider - Reaper Leader
Omni Ace
Jul 26, 2016
71
89
18
#39
The guy I know would've gotten the model done in a couple of days work... Probably only costing 1000-2000. I don't know how quick, or expensive, animators are, but I don't think these animations are especially spectacular.

This kind of art demo should not be costing $20k, and it should not have taken 5 months. I think a budget at $5k and deadline of a week, would be a much more realistic goal. Even if they're working "part time", they can just hire in freelancers, which will cost more than inhouse modeling/animating (quite apparently it didn't though, somehow), but for such a small project it's well worth it.

At this rate, the game will need 20 years to get to beta.
Alt Reece account confirmed. :D
 
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