PDF Game Vision Book Next Week - Sneak Peak Next Fundraiser

Discussion in 'Ember Art & Design Updates' started by Grummz, May 5, 2017.

  1. Rocket

    Rocket Gatestrider - T.H.M.P.R. Max Kahina

    He looks like a slightly less chiseled version of Typhon. I'm pretty sure that's not just a coincidence.
    engjang and Mahdi like this.
  2. Mallot

    Mallot New Member

    I really hope there's work being done all the time... 5 moths for a model, with rigging and animations, with a mockup art showcase is pretty slow. Then another 2-3 months for a player character?
  3. Torgue_Joey

    Torgue_Joey Emberite -Death Reaper KAIJU 'SPLODER

    engjang and Mahdi like this.
  4. Mallot

    Mallot New Member

    The guy I know would've gotten the model done in a couple of days work... Probably only costing 1000-2000. I don't know how quick, or expensive, animators are, but I don't think these animations are especially spectacular.

    This kind of art demo should not be costing $20k, and it should not have taken 5 months. I think a budget at $5k and deadline of a week, would be a much more realistic goal. Even if they're working "part time", they can just hire in freelancers, which will cost more than inhouse modeling/animating (quite apparently it didn't though, somehow), but for such a small project it's well worth it.

    At this rate, the game will need 20 years to get to beta.
  5. Grummz

    Grummz Administrator Ember Dev

    (Edit: When "I know a guy" is your main argument, you know you are way off base already)

    Hi, first off, making a game model that has to work well in a game is different from modeling something static just to show off in a non-functional way. Even so your estimates are off by an order of magnitude. Let's break it down:

    1) Fully rendered orthographic drawings to being modeling
    2) Color studies for texture work
    3) Rough form modeling to check scale and proportions.
    4) Refinements to rough model, and iteration.
    5) Hi-poly Z-brush sculpt (millions of polys).
    6) Lo-poly version and LODs created.
    7) Lo-poly rigged for animation and tested.
    9) Careful quad placement and UV unwrapping of the model for minimum texture warping.
    10) Materials created for PBR shader on model, of which there can be several.
    11) Painting of those materials onto the model with weathering.
    12) Iteration of the materials, hi-poly mesh and lo-poly mesh.
    13) Final output, baking of normal maps, diffuse maps, AO maps, etc.
    14) Animations
    15) Iteration on Animations
    16) Creating the animation graph and blend states
    17) Hooking up animation graph to game logic and creating an NPC behavior tree

    This is what you claim is just "a couple days work." When we created the Firefall characters, with a full time team of 7, it took 3 months to finish one model. 7 people, working full-time for 3 months at average industry salaries is almost $50,000. Not $2000. Go to any 3D outsourcer and get quotes. I did get a quote for animation from an outsourcer, and it was $14,000 for the THMPR alone to rig and animate. I luckily found some passionate part-timers to do them instead and we were able to fit it in our very small budget.

    Consider that the milestone raised also covers the Omniframe, not just the THMRP as you imply. We also created a square kilometer of terrain, weather effects, and hired a server programmer to begin work on mutiplayer, as well as concept out our player charcters and pay for design work for the game to lay out the features and scope of the game in the vision book.

    I can go on, but I know you are just here to troll. If this flamebait continues we'll move it to the appropriate section.
    Last edited: May 15, 2017
  6. Grummz

    Grummz Administrator Ember Dev

    I'm going to add that we've taken steps to increase production speed.

    1) I am full-time on Em-8ER now. For both design and client side coding, as well as sound effects, animation graphs and terrain shaders and sculpting. I'm now also doing the sound effect work in ProTools and purchased sound libraries and plug-ins to help. (my design rate on consulting for other game projects is $350/hr. You do the math for the discount I'm offering on Em-8ER because it's my passion project).

    2) We staggered the milestones. I've partially paid for the modeling of the male and female humans. When we do the fundraiser for these, they will be nearly done and we can concentrate on animation and scripting.

    3) Since we are staggered, it means work on the Tsh-Hu will begin while we are doing the humans, so when the Tsi-Hu milestone goes up, the models will be partially done and be faster to complete.

    We will do a milestone very 2 months. Here's what's left to go:

    1) Human male/female characters
    2) Tsi-Hu alien and beast mode
    3) Coding the final playable mockup, including final animations, sound FX, particles, etc. and creating a playble THMPR encounter from start to finish.
    Last edited: May 15, 2017
  7. Grummz

    Grummz Administrator Ember Dev

    Staggering means milestones that take 4 months to do are delivered in 2 months. The team takes the risk by working for free prior to funding to accomplish this. We put our faith in the game and our backers.
  8. Torgue_Joey

    Torgue_Joey Emberite -Death Reaper KAIJU 'SPLODER


  9. Earth_Soldier

    Earth_Soldier Deepscanner

    As easy as this and with style.
    Pandagnome, Rocket, Mahdi and 4 others like this.
  10. Rocket

    Rocket Gatestrider - T.H.M.P.R. Max Kahina

    He hasn't said this in his replies above, but it's actually the 3D printing (and painting for 6 of them) of the THMPR models that is delaying things. It's taken far more time than @Grummz originally anticipated, and he can't do another fundraiser without clearing all goals from the last one first. Indigogo would crucify him otherwise.
    Fabricio21RJ, Mahdi and engjang like this.
  11. Despair

    Despair Firstclaimer - Death Reaper - Frame Founder

    Take your time vor delivering something great. For my statistical human lifespan I still have 50 years left :)

    (Youre doing great, hopefully the biggest Part of your community ist able to Show you this)
    Last edited: May 16, 2017
    Mahdi, engjang and Pandagnome like this.
  12. Mahdi

    Mahdi THMPR Inbound - Gatestrider - Firstclaimer

    The more track that gets laid with progress the more people like this will show up. Honestly, even in confrontation Em-8ER will get more press coverage. 97% of our near 5k members here are in full support of our awesome team. From reading the forums daily I have to give a shout out to that Nanotechnician dude.

    Bro, you be da man, for real. From the constant politeness and extremely informative responses. Grats to you.

    ....i would have said da bomb, but bombs are Torgue's specialty. And offendeding him would mean a cyber nuke to my phone. Since the move its my only form of net...sooo...please don't do it Joey!
  13. Torgue_Joey

    Torgue_Joey Emberite -Death Reaper KAIJU 'SPLODER



  14. Earth_Soldier

    Earth_Soldier Deepscanner

    Last edited: May 16, 2017
  15. Grummz

    Grummz Administrator Ember Dev

    Physical goods have been a big slowdown. For example I'm still cleaning support structures and gluing THMPRs together. Book that needs to be physically printed also a problem for time.

    In the future we will focus on digital exclusives and physical things that are not detracting from game dev.
    Wraithbane, 13umbleBee, Mahdi and 4 others like this.
  16. EvilKitten

    EvilKitten Gatestrider - Firstclaimer

    Just curious, but what if you did model kits rather than shipping out fully put together replica's for the omni-frame. I remember once making a few model planes where I had to pull all the little parts off of the sprues and glue them together myself and it was kinda fun. If you remove having to build each model yourself I would imagine that would drastically cut down on the amount of time needed to get the models shipped out. You would of course need to make an instruction booklet and such but that would be a one time deal that you can print off for everyone (or just have a PDF link on the website to save even more).
    NanoTechnician and DinsdaleP13 like this.
  17. NanoTechnician

    NanoTechnician Emberite - THMPR - Deepscanner

    Game development pre alpha time lines to release:
    Elder Scrolls Online : 07-14 >2y pre alpha>7 years total
    StarWars: ToR 06-11 >2.5y pre alpha>5 years total
    Guildwars: 2 07-12 >1.5y pre alpha>5 years total
    Spore: 00-08 >2y pre alpha>8 years total
    Fallout 3 02-08 >1.5y pre alpha>6 years total
    Morrowind 96-04 >1.5y pre alpha>6 years total
    TF 2: 99-07 >1.5y pre alpha>8 years total

    TL;DR Rome wasn't built in a day.

    @Grummz "A mental image of you and your family pasting bits of plastic on the floor on a Saturday morning". :)
    Last edited: May 16, 2017
    halp, Wyntyr, Torgue_Joey and 3 others like this.
  18. Mahdi

    Mahdi THMPR Inbound - Gatestrider - Firstclaimer

    Are you ever going to quit being a winner, Nano? Good list of the time frames there.
    NanoTechnician likes this.
  19. Astro

    Astro Gatestrider - Reaper Leader Omni Ace

    Alt Reece account confirmed. :D
    Torgue_Joey likes this.
  20. NanoTechnician

    NanoTechnician Emberite - THMPR - Deepscanner

    Just using my mind @Mahdi, afterall it's the only successful asset that's still performs ;)
    Mahdi likes this.

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