No tinkering and Elite Ranks please

[Squid Boss]

Elite Rank/Paragon or whatever works so long as gains come to a capping point. Problem we saw in FF was that some abilities, namely defensive in the end, provided such a boost without a limit players could achieve invulnerability for far too long or excessive levels of shields.

If ER 0 is 100% power then ER 100 should be something like 101% power.

So long as the gains are mostly minimal there isn't so bad a power gap.

So long as there is a limit on how far up certain stats can go, like CD reduction, we aim for break points instead of game breaking points.

 

[Vedemin]

I think Tinkering isn't bad if done right not much difference then crafting a better weapon. As for those saying its a unfair advantage for those that pay to play I've tinkered my weapons and have not payed to play yet since tinkering is done with in game credits which you don't need to pay for with RL money. Also Elite lvling is ok if it was better controlled. Seeing people make elite lvl 2000 on the first day its initiated is ridiculous. The biggest problem is those who just stand around AFK LEACHing XP from players that are doing mission/jobs/encounters to get those extremely high elite lvl. IMO if you don't do the work playing the game you shouldn't be able to get the XP credit

I am currently working on a post that will propose crafting without levels, only by unlocks and resources. Once everything is unlocked, you would make better gear by either crafting a completely new weapon or just changing an element of already existing weapon, ex. you have a weapon and you want to improve its stats. You've just unlocked crafting with Titanium, you are crafting a new breech for that weapon and change the old one. Now you have a slightly upgraded weapon. So IMO tinkering could be good, but not just improving its stats, that would be crafting. Something special would be necessary

 

[Bl4ckhunter]

elite ranks are a bad copy of borderlands's badass ranks http://borderlands.wikia.com/wiki/Badass_Rank, only in borderlands they were somewhat balanced but red5 did a shitty job of copying it over.
anyway no to both in my books.

 

[NitroMidgets]

No to both.

 

[TankHunter678]

Not having made those system or even played them, I'll have to read this entire thread just to figure out what they are.

In 1.6 Elite Ranks are basically extra levels with a group of 6 randomly selected stat increases, including module stats.
1.6 Tinkering was just the standard MMO +1 enhancement system. With pay 2 win tinker tools.



Honestly I would not mind seeing Tinkering in Ember, specifically the concept of tinkering not the +1 enhancing.

Conceptually tinkering is modifying the piece of gear to get more out of it, this fits right in with the communities desire for customizable weapons. The system could be setup to allow dismantling gear into the base components to use in other pieces of gear. Allowing you to swap out a low power core with a high power core to increase the power output of say a Pulse Rifle. Swap out the barrel so that the Pulse Rifle becomes a Splitter Pulse Shotgun. Change the heatsinks to better cope with the increased heat generation.

Congrats through tinkering with the weapon you changed it from one type of weapon to another type of weapon without having to go through the main crafting system.

This turns tinkering into an alternative system for those who do not want to craft. They could dismantle any weapon rewards, or gear they get off the market board on the cheap, to use to turn a weapon into a different kind of weapon.

 

[NitroMidgets]

That kind of low level tinkering I would be OK with.

 

[DARKB1KE]

Tinkering also found in Sword Art Online games in which you upgrade your weapon stats.

 

[GARRONPADUK]

yeah please no Elite ranks Made my Tigerclaw and i guse every other frame an Ability spammer instead of shooting things lol XD

 

[grzesiek]

elite ranks- nope i dont want that- made me feel as parading my junk through the village on a barrow for all to see.
tinkering- yes, please -but - first it would be great to see how crafting looks like.

 

[NimbusCloud]

If Elite Ranks can be used in a way that shows you are skilful but doesn't make you a demigod, would be great. Simple Icon of rank/Rank number/High end cosmetic options. The feeling of 'ranking up' was actually great and addictive.. something I think everyone enjoyed.

 

[Sandsnake]

No one got ER 2k on the first day, in fact, by 1.7, almost 6 months after release there were very very few over 2k, we are talking under 10 people.

I DO know that for 6 months I was playing 12 hours a day (would have been more, but I did need to earn some cash occasionally to keep the Wife in Jimi Choos) and I was versed in jumping between shards and the playerbase was not so big that the higher ER didint know of each other (at least)

Maybe there were a lot of macro people out there who were never seen, but to all purposes, they didint exist because they were playing a single player game with no interaction with real people.

Misreporting doesent help any arguement, especially when the point to this thread is to talk about how a system in the future can be designed.

The single biggest failiure of ANY progressing system is that of jealousy that it creastes, but it MUST have an element of it in order to "hook" people.

Bit of a tight rope.

Sorry, not true. By getting multiple stacks of those gift packs before one or another patch, and then the one for a week of daily logins, and given that they were trade-able, well.....

 

[Yrkul]

Both tinkering and elite ranks were a sorry attempt to inject a feeling of further accomplishment in a system that gave little reward past a certain point. Once you had your main frame all decked out, all other progression and acquisition was for the sake of completionism. And not everyone is a crazy altoholic with four seperate accounts. /straightface

If the system is done in a way, that naturally offers a sense of progression/accomplishment past level/gear cap, then things like tinkering and ERs are unnecessary. You might even consider softcapping, especially if you use a flat or low power curve. So if Ember's progression mechanics, gear mechanics and crafting system supports perpetual sense of progression/accomplishment, then what can be summed up as dark stains on Firefall's development history will be obsolete.

 

[SimonPheonix]

No one got ER 2k on the first day, in fact, by 1.7, almost 6 months after release there were very very few over 2k, we are talking under 10 people.

I DO know that for 6 months I was playing 12 hours a day (would have been more, but I did need to earn some cash occasionally to keep the Wife in Jimi Choos) and I was versed in jumping between shards and the playerbase was not so big that the higher ER didint know of each other (at least)

Maybe there were a lot of macro people out there who were never seen, but to all purposes, they didint exist because they were playing a single player game with no interaction with real people.

Misreporting doesent help any arguement, especially when the point to this thread is to talk about how a system in the future can be designed.

The single biggest failiure of ANY progressing system is that of jealousy that it creastes, but it MUST have an element of it in order to "hook" people.

Bit of a tight rope.

your right "The single biggest failiure of ANY progressing system is that of jealousy that it creastes, but it MUST have an element of it in order to "hook" people." I never said there were lots of 2k+ ER's but I did see enough in the first few days after they started the new system when ER in 1.6. By the time 1.7 hit the highest I saw was at 6k ER. I myself was way up that when the reduced everyone's ER in 1.7 I went down to 150 ER and still saw peeps over 2k ER the next day after 1.7 . I play every day solo but just casual play to keep myself from going crazy from being disabled. I still thinks its ridiculous how some make these high lvl ER so fast but then again thats just me and they probably play more then I do. LOL Don't get me wrong more power to them if they make lvls fast. My only complaint is with some of the high lvl ER players that sit in the lower lvl areas taking all the Ares missions away from those trying to lvl their non ER frames

 

[Torgue_Joey]

I think I'll go with tinkering. I've build a broomstick i want, lets say "ExcaliBOOM", I'd like to improve that said "ExcaliBOOM" even more without crafting a new said "ExcaliBOOM" for better stats.

 

[MattHunX]

Tinkering is neat. So are Elite Ranks, but the problem with the latter, is that it will undoubtedly lead to...elitism, later on. And demi-god characters, if the "classes" aren't balanced.

 

[Alfonso]

I don't want tinkering and ER introduced to FF because they were there to help the horizontal progression.

In beta of FF, after T3-4 was placed, I made HPMG with the best quality possible, all the components 900+. It was so heavy I didn't equip any skill but still my Mammoth was at 60 or 70% speed.
What I did was that sacrificing speed for an awesome weapon.

If ER and tinkering keep the idea of constraint system, I don't mind to see that in Ember.

Players progress in ER that is very specialized in one skill but every ER comes with negative point to other skills.
So you won't be 'Elite of everything' but you will be 'Elite sniper' somthing like that.
For example, +1 accuracy but -1 rate of fire and -10 defence.
And players can choose not to progress in ER

Tinkering, will be more like fine tuning of gear, is basically the same idea. You make A property better at a cost of B.

 

[Sandsnake]

I agree, the constraint system was one of the best thought out concepts in FF. THAT should deffo come across

 

[NitroMidgets]

I have up speed for my main weapon on my Dread as well. I figured I was going to ride my bike to the first anyways. There was no need to worry about speed after I got there. Just doing lots of damage.

 

[Necryel]

Elite Ranks was a misguided attempt to grant relevancy to Experience Points earned after achieving Max Level. It allowed players to continue to gain power directly through the character, via various stat increases as opposed to only gear driven improvement. Why XP supposedly needed to have any kind of relevancy post Max Level was simply beyond me. Very quickly the power curve got out of hand and players with huge amounts of Elite Ranks simply steam rolled through any new content without breaking a sweat because even without earning an new gear, players had attained massive increases in power, people were SNIPING with PINPOINT accurate shotguns and HMGs that had the range of a Burst Rifle. It was positively ridiculous. People started doing RAIDS in only Minutes, Most notably, Bainclaw was being melted down in mere seconds because people begged and whined to give post Max Level XP some kind of meaning. I'm sorry, but if there are levels, the XP's only purpose is to advance your levels until you hit the cap, once you hit the cap, you should simply stop gaining XPs until the cap is raised again. Period. ERs was, from it's very inception one of the worst ideas conceived from both a system and content design point of view, AND from a play point of view as it quickly made any new content meaningless.

 

[GherkinSavorus]

The only real problem with elite ranks was the uncapped nature of the stat-boosts. Had they capped the effects at 20% or so, there would have been no issue.

Realistically you have to have something to keep the maxed players interested.