Is there a good reason for 3 frames?

[liandri]

I'll chuck a vote in for omniframe, given that the omniframe would encompass all frames, but I do like the light, medium and heavy options.

I can't think of any examples off of the top of my head that would really go with my opinion, but say we're trying to balance power, speed and armour, I don't see why you can't have several base frames like:

Superlight - average power, lowest armour, highest speed (3 , 1 , 5 (9)
Light - average power, lower armour, higher speed (3 , 2 , 4 (9)
Medium - average power, average armour, high speed (3 , 3 , 3 (9)
Heavy - average power, higher armour, lower speed (3 , 4 , 2 (9)
Superheavy - higher power, higher armour, lowest speed (4 , 4 , 1 (9)

Then you equip your gear or whatever on top of that to modify your base. Say you have a superheavy frame and
Add some extra hydraulics (extra power drain, increased mobility) an improved reactor (extra power) and a xenosteel armour upgrade (extra armour, lighter than current steel plating, so increased mobility), and that gets you to higher than average power, highest armour, and average speed (4 , 5 , 3 (12).
Add your triple minigun, now your power decreases to lower than average power, highest armour and lower than average speed (2 , 5 , 2 (9).
You end up with a frame that may be incredibly dangerous on the field, but can't glide around as easily, and relies on armour for survival.

Do the same with a superlight frame, you get (3 , 2 , 7 (12) before a minigun and (1 , 2 , 6 (9) after. Barely any energy or armour, but very maneuverable (given it's superlight, you could probably do a minigun-jump).

I'm rambling and overthinking as usual, but having a single omniframe that even the chassis can be replaced, I like that, as opposed to everyone either being locked to specific frames, or having a garage full of 80 of the suckers. We can just have loadouts, right?

 

[Wyntyr]

Why would people be confused? Would you perhaps elaborate on your rational here?

Let's take Team Fortress 2 as an example. Players can quickly tell the role of another character by the silhouette alone. "That's the Medic, that's the Heavy, that's the Sniper, etc.". It allows for players, even new players, to have a good idea what a character can do with just a quick glance (which IMO is good for a shooter since you're pretty much quick glancing constantly). If players can build a Medic that looks like a Heavy and a Heavy that looks like a Sniper, etc. , then no one really knows what the heck is going on in an already chaotic environment just on your own team let alone the opposing team. If players don't "feel right" in a game they won't stay long enough to learn any of the complexities, customization's, depth with game play/crafting, etc. And IMO, not knowing early on what OF basically does what will have a lot of players come in to play and quickly leave because the game doesn't "feel right".

The way you said that makes it comes across to me like Em-8er is intended to appeal to the least common denominator.

I don't know what you consider "...the least common denominator." so I'm at a loss there, but I do want the game to be a huge financial success, super fun, and have a positive helpful community for both hardcore and casual players.

 

[kingnight]

One highly customisable frame as opposed to 3 highly customisable frames is more complicated???

well for me its not a 3 frames is complex more of I want 1 frame thats complex that can be like the 3 depending on what you put on it. so maybe the omniframe is just.... a "frame" and you put stuff on it like reactors armor and such which weight dictacts what servos and stuff you need or want?? Brain crapped part way though there again.

 

[EvilKitten]

Let's take Team Fortress 2 as an example. Players can quickly tell the role of another character by the silhouette alone. "That's the Medic, that's the Heavy, that's the Sniper, etc.". It allows for players, even new players, to have a good idea what a character can do with just a quick glance (which IMO is good for a shooter since you're pretty much quick glancing constantly). If players can build a Medic that looks like a Heavy and a Heavy that looks like a Sniper, etc. , then no one really knows what the heck is going on in an already chaotic environment just on your own team let alone the opposing team. If players don't "feel right" in a game they won't stay long enough to learn any of the complexities, customization's, depth with game play/crafting, etc. And IMO, not knowing early on what OF basically does what will have a lot of players come in to play and quickly leave because the game doesn't "feel right".


I don't know what you consider "...the least common denominator." so I'm at a loss there, but I do want the game to be a huge financial success, super fun, and have a positive helpful community for both hardcore and casual players.

Least common denominator or Lowest Common Denominator in gaming is a reference to removing any complex game design so that the least intelligent player is on the same footing with everyone else. In this specific case I felt like your comment was inferring that people wanting to play Em-8er would be too stupid to figure out how to design a frame they like and so needed to be segregated into fixed frame designs. I was sure that wasn't what you intended, hence my request for clarification.

Grummz has already stated that the modules we put on our frame will have visual changes to the frame, based on that I would imagine that even with one frame you would still be able to differentiate a tank design from a recon design etc. Obviously the changes would have to be more than simple coloring but still not outside the realm of reason no? I assume that the changes would be fixed and thematic, so placing a heavy module on a frame would be distinctive from placing a recon themed module in its place.

I have also posted the idea before about creating modifiable kits which would package themed modules and weapons together. The player can receive some basic premade "class" kits on starting the game and then move on to customizing their kits as they saw fit. This would allow new players to quickly jump into the game and feel comfortable while also allowing complete customization AND allow for quick change outs on the fly if desired. Open your inventory, double click on a kit and boom your frame changed from a medic to a heavy, and its look will distinctively change to match.

 

[Krhys]

Can understand khys one frame thought

Could see the frame you have on the screen and have 3 seperate genric build option icons underneath for light/medium/heavy/
to switch you click on which ever build type then can customize around your playstyle.

Then if you want to favorite the build you have say 2-3 favorite tabs for each frame that way you can keep the build you want for a mission
you prefer using.

My thought on this is omni frame your just wearing 1 frame at a given time although there are 3 frame types its omni in design but if it was tri you would be wearing them all at once! The speed of a cheetah, the strength of a rhino and the adaptability of ant together forms SUPER TRI-FORCE ULTRA BATTLE BEAST MK123

just my thoughts but i wouldnt mind a tri-frame

Wow - that clip reminds me of Voltron, anyone seen that or am I showing my age???

 

[Krhys]

Least common denominator or Lowest Common Denominator in gaming is a reference to removing any complex game design so that the least intelligent player is on the same footing with everyone else. In this specific case I felt like your comment was inferring that people wanting to play Em-8er would be too stupid to figure out how to design a frame they like and so needed to be segregated into fixed frame designs. I was sure that wasn't what you intended, hence my request for clarification.

Grummz has already stated that the modules we put on our frame will have visual changes to the frame, based on that I would imagine that even with one frame you would still be able to differentiate a tank design from a recon design etc. Obviously the changes would have to be more than simple coloring but still not outside the realm of reason no? I assume that the changes would be fixed and thematic, so placing a heavy module on a frame would be distinctive from placing a recon themed module in its place.

I have also posted the idea before about creating modifiable kits which would package themed modules and weapons together. The player can receive some basic premade "class" kits on starting the game and then move on to customizing their kits as they saw fit. This would allow new players to quickly jump into the game and feel comfortable while also allowing complete customization AND allow for quick change outs on the fly if desired. Open your inventory, double click on a kit and boom your frame changed from a medic to a heavy, and its look will distinctively change to match.

One thing that Firefall let itself down on (among the multitude of everything that led to its demise) was not having seperate 'loadouts' for each frame stored in your garage. If you have the gear, why not have several versions of a frame that you can swap between in an instant, instead of having to take everything off, put stuff on, off, on, off, etc.

I hope with the tri, I mean omni frame, we will have several loadouts set in the garage we can customise and select from.

 

[Pandagnome]

Wow - that clip reminds me of Voltron, anyone seen that or am I showing my age???

which voltron the retro one or the legendary defender both are good for sure!!

 

[Gordro]

One thing that Firefall let itself down on (among the multitude of everything that led to its demise) was not having seperate 'loadouts' for each frame. stored in your garage

Yeah, the addon that was coded in conjunction with one of the Devs was a godsend, cant remember its name, but it turned my recluse into something usable in either solo or group play, DPS or helping "slow arsed lazy FireCats" to keep up play.

That said I still prescribe to the train of thought that things like "different load outs" should be keyed to our personal wealth.

This serves two main functiona

1. keeping the poor people in their place
2. Allowing me to hang out in Newbie areas, impressing the 40 year old FBI agents who are pretending to be chicks.

 

[kingnight]

Yeah, the addon that was coded in conjunction with one of the Devs was a godsend, cant remember its name, but it turned my recluse into something usable in either solo or group play, DPS or helping "slow arsed lazy FireCats" to keep up play.

That said I still prescribe to the train of thought that things like "different load outs" should be keyed to our personal wealth.

This serves two main functiona

1. keeping the poor people in their place
2. Allowing me to hang out in Newbie areas, impressing the 40 year old FBI agents who are pretending to be chicks.

oi I was a mammoth and firecat! My firecat killed people big time! I can't lay down a area of fart gas like the recluse but I sure set everything on FIRE!!!! even if I was also setting myself on fire and almost dead all the time but never dieing.
lol firecat was fun moving all over the dam place quickly setting everything on fire while most likely being almost dead [which I was a lot of the time]

 

[Krhys]

oi I was a mammoth and firecat! My firecat killed people big time! I can't lay down a area of fart gas like the recluse but I sure set everything on FIRE!!!! even if I was also setting myself on fire and almost dead all the time but never dieing.
lol firecat was fun moving all over the dam place quickly setting everything on fire while most likely being almost dead [which I was a lot of the time]

The kitty was tremendous fun, fiya everywhere is def the way it's done! Tiger's main weapon was really good for skill practice though. Just a thought, we sort of had 3 frames per type in FF (well, 4 if you considered the Arsenal) is that what the tri, sorry, I mean omniframe is trying to emulate?

 

[Mordgrim]

From my perspective, I don't necessarily think that light/medium/heavy/whatever should act like "classes" where they have binary features enabled or disabled. I prefer the idea that its tied to weight class and power output, so that naturally as you pile more/heavier stuff on you have to have a bigger frame with a bigger reactor to handle the load but it also slows you down and makes you less agile.

...but I'm also a Dark Souls fan so maybe I'm just crazy.

 

[Pandagnome]

From my perspective, I don't necessarily think that light/medium/heavy/whatever should act like "classes" where they have binary features enabled or disabled. I prefer the idea that its tied to weight class and power output, so that naturally as you pile more/heavier stuff on you have to have a bigger frame with a bigger reactor to handle the load but it also slows you down and makes you less agile.

...but I'm also a Dark Souls fan so maybe I'm just crazy.

I think we all crazy here

 

[kingnight]

I think we all crazy here

what us all crazy? noo nooo nooo we are not also just ignore the fact im on fire.

 

[loadout]

My vote is for 1 frame. The reason is simple, imagine you are building your frame and are equipping parts left and right. You can choose a shield arm and some legs and you finally have your build.

But what makes you different from the next guy you say? well you have the ability to use a sliding scale (with materials as a cost limiter) to adjust whether or not you want a heavier more hp/tanky style part or a lighter fast-firing-high explosive(low damage per shot) type of part.

With the sliding scale you can simply adjust what you want your parts to be. The devs are then free to balance as needed and only need to make a few smaller sets of parts. As for chassis just one is needed and could be visually adjusted by taking off or adding visual bits.

So instead of having to make 3 entirely different suits you can just design 'pop-on' bits to change aesthetics as an indicator of how heavy/light/normal your specific frame is. Additional frame bodies are also easier to add as they too can be built off a similar initial unit. This way the devs save time, we all get plenty of customization, and balance overall between the meta can be readily adjusted on a part by part basis.

Bonus! different styles of armor plating could be sold in a cash only shop for extra cool points.

 

[Gordro]

My vote is for 1 frame.

This idea closley aligns with the old CPU, MASS and Cores Idea from Firefall beta 2 (I think it was 2, were a few changes a week back then)

I loved it, there were multiple frames obviously, but it could have worked with a single frame.

I remember making a pair of boots that let me jump over half the length of the valley of death in one bound.

Couldn't wear anything else, but it was fun

 

[Pandagnome]

This idea closley aligns with the old CPU, MASS and Cores Idea from Firefall beta 2 (I think it was 2, were a few changes a week back then)

I loved it, there were multiple frames obviously, but it could have worked with a single frame.

I remember making a pair of boots that let me jump over half the length of the valley of death in one bound.

Couldn't wear anything else, but it was fun

did you feel like you were wearing the most advanced air jordans?

 

[Krhys]

This idea closley aligns with the old CPU, MASS and Cores Idea from Firefall beta 2 (I think it was 2, were a few changes a week back then)

I loved it, there were multiple frames obviously, but it could have worked with a single frame.

I remember making a pair of boots that let me jump over half the length of the valley of death in one bound.

Couldn't wear anything else, but it was fun

Now this is what made beta Firefall great - sacrfiice some areas completely for uber stats in another! Let's hope Em-8er allows us to do the same.

 

[Mahdi]

I believe they will stay true to this. Being able to just slot the best would hamper the replay value of Em-8er. Having a constraint system opens up true customization and the rotating "best" builds. Having this personalization to how anyone would want to game specifically to their playstyle is what will be Em-8er's true essence and uniqueness.

 

[SomeUnregPunk]

Definately. Constraint systems are far better than homogenization.

Bungie screwed up Destiny 2 when they decided to change their 3 characters types so that there is no difference between them other than the lore and powers. All 3 characters can use the same weapons and gear and they all act the same in the game. The only difference is their powers. That part sucked out the fun in using the different character types once you realize that.

The constraint systems in Mechwarrior & Armored Core made it quite more interesting. Especially since it opened up how players interact with the game.

It's also the reason I backed Project Genom. They had/have interesting ideas on how to change things to keep it interesting. Everything in that game is going to be customizable. Even at endgame. Hopefully that and Ember comes to fruition.

 

[ArkistGuardian]

Depends on playstyle. I would love a heavy and light frame lol