Is there a good reason for 3 frames?

How many distinct frames would you like to see in Em-8er


  • Total voters
    44

EvilKitten

Gatestrider
Base Commander
Jul 26, 2016
572
969
93
#21
I would like to see zero distinct frames in Em-8er. In fact, I would like to see zero frames at all. Frames would make it too easy. Everyone should be forced to run around naked. Also, no guns. Only sticks and rocks. Three different sizes of sticks, and three different sizes of rocks. That way, people still have choices.
I don't like where this is going...
This is not a topic about sticks, please keep your sticks to yourselves thank you!

... :p
 
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DinsdaleP13

Firstclaimer
Jul 26, 2016
405
390
63
116
Arizona, U.S.A.
#27
Fair enough. What if we coat it in molasses.

Which reminds me of a joke. There's a papa mole, a mama mole, and little baby mole crawling through their mole hole. Papa mole, out in front says "I think I smell honey." Mama mole says, "I think I smell honey too." Little baby mole, in the back says "Funny, I just smell molasses."
 
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Rabiator

New Member
Mar 1, 2017
10
13
3
#28
Voted for 2 (light, heavy):
I think for maximum versatility in crafting your frame, every weapon type should in principle fit on every frame.

But it still makes sense that very heavy weapons cannot be carried by the light frame. Think heavy machine gun vs. autocannon (bigger), the latter might be too much for a light frame.

For the actual implementation in game, I suggest that the heavy frame can handle more weight and perhaps more recoil, at the expense of being slower.
 

Grummz

Administrator
Ember Dev
Jul 25, 2016
655
5,455
93
#29
The light frame is limited on it's reactor size, max shields and armor. Heavy has large reactors and heavy shields/armor but has less mobility.

Medium lets you blend the two, with a decent amount of power and mobility. It's the most flexible of the frames but doesn't max out on speed like light, or power like Heavy.
 

EvilKitten

Gatestrider
Base Commander
Jul 26, 2016
572
969
93
#30
The light frame is limited on it's reactor size, max shields and armor. Heavy has large reactors and heavy shields/armor but has less mobility.

Medium lets you blend the two, with a decent amount of power and mobility. It's the most flexible of the frames but doesn't max out on speed like light, or power like Heavy.
Thanks for the reply @Grummz :D

My biggest concern here is uniqueness. The Medium sounds like a jack of all trades sort of frame, not really bad at anything, not really good at anything? Besides "dual wielding secondaries" how do you plan to uniquify the medium frame.

Perhaps we need another major stat besides just mobility and power so there can be a balanced triangle instead of just 3 frames on a gradient? I remember 0.7 Firefall had a fairly decent triangle based on Mass, Power and CPU's. If Mass equates to mobility then can we get a CPU version for Em-8er?

1527089664717.png

EDIT: What if each frame has a unique "Core", Light frame has a Hydraulic core, Medium frame has a Processing Core and heavy has a power core.

Hydraulic systems benefit mobility and abilities that augment speed and maneuverability. The light omniframe gets a base +X% movement boost and the hydraulic core gives a bonus to any ability utilizing hydraulic systems.

Processing systems benefit offense, abilities that directly damage or augment the players ability to attack their enemy has high processing requirements. Medium Omniframes get a +X% damage boost and the processing core gives a bonus to any ability utilizing processing systems.

Power systems are needed for energy intensive defense and abilities that augment such. Heavy omniframes get a default +X% shield boost and/or some damage mitigation, additionally a Power core gives a bonus to any ability utilizing power systems.

As in the above diagram there would definitely be some overlap between the frames and even a fair number of abilities that all 3 can equip but this would provide a natural limitation as well as make each frame more unique in its playstyle.

Basic Example:

Cannonball - the omniframe leaps forward and smashes into the ground, damaging enemies in an area around it.
2x Proccessing System, 3x Hydraulic system.

Light Omniframes get a 30% bonus on the movement aspect of the ability, allowing them to leap further and faster than the other frames.

Medium omniframes get a 20% damage bonus to the smashing aspect of Cannonball.

Heavy omniframes can equip the ability but gets no bonuses as it is not a defensive ability.
 
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EvilKitten

Gatestrider
Base Commander
Jul 26, 2016
572
969
93
#32
Temporary shield boost?
No, it is not a defensive ability.

If you look at the triangle diagram again you will see that there are 7 distinct categories an ability can fall into.

Mobility
Mobility/Processing
Mobility/Processing/Power
Mobility/Power
Processing
Processing/Power
Power

This means that some abilities only one frame would get a boost from, some will be boosted by 2 frames and some of them by all 3. But what aspect is boosted will be different. In the above example a heavy frame could equip cannonball, and it would function basically the same, however it would not be as effective as equipping it on the other frames because it falls into the Mobility/Processing category.

I should point out that depending on how abilities are created/modded, the cannonball ability might be altered so that instead of damaging enemies at the destination, instead a bonus shield would be created based on your omniframes total shield stat. This however would change it to

Cannonball
2x Power system, 3x Hydraulic system

This version could also be equipped by all 3 but in this case the heavy would get a 20% boost to the bonus shield and the medium frame would get no extra bonus (but would still get the leap and default shield).

EDIT: additionally it might be also possible to have 2 other versions of the ability:

Cannonball
1x Power system, 1x Processing system, 3x Hydraulic system.

Leap with some damage at the target and a small bonus shield

Cannonball
4x Hydraulic System

Just the leap

The key element of the ability is the jump, making its core function a mobility ability and thus falls into the blue circle, but the blue circle overlaps the other two and thus allows for modifications.
1527098784012.png
 
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#33
I liked the power, mass, cpu structure in firefall open beta. Made you haft to balance stuff a bit.
The issue I see is in firefall you had set frames so it made a bit of sense in ember its make your own frame. I feel like the reactor issue might be a bit eh but then again idk what to think of to fix it.

just a little messing around this part
CPU is mainly for your abilities more Intense abilities needs more cpu taking up more space from mass and power
Power is the jump jet system, and weapons system [affecting abilities as well making them more potent] same deal with the CPU taking more space up power will do the same
Mass, is where im not sure. I think maybe more mass point means you can hold more but of course you slow down, mass is the limiting factor hitting on everything.
As typing this maybe a fourth thing / third with mass being a separate thing that contains the rest, but "mobility" being your servos. you can get bigger more powerful servos speeding you up...? ok typing that part my though just fell though.

Typed this as it came to me so... not thought on to much. maybe someone can untangle and sort what im thinking.
 
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Krhys

Player One
Jul 26, 2016
150
248
43
#34
Omni, in front of another word, usually means singular of that item. I guess in the Crixa universe they forgot to pack their dictionaries when they left Earth...

Absolutely pointless having 3 'omni' frames when one will do. Unless of course you change the name to Triframe (or something equally as rubbish). Would be a pity as Omniframe sounds da bomb.

Take one standard Omniframe, add light weapons and a light sprinkling of armour and you have a really fast frame that flies around like a, well, a fly I suppose. If your fly gets swatted, then whack on loads of armour plating and carry a big gun and you have, wait for it, a heavy Omniframe, which doesn't really move too fast but can at least take some hits. Simples!
 
#35
Omni, in front of another word, usually means singular of that item. I guess in the Crixa universe they forgot to pack their dictionaries when they left Earth...

Absolutely pointless having 3 'omni' frames when one will do. Unless of course you change the name to Triframe (or something equally as rubbish). Would be a pity as Omniframe sounds da bomb.

Take one standard Omniframe, add light weapons and a light sprinkling of armour and you have a really fast frame that flies around like a, well, a fly I suppose. If your fly gets swatted, then whack on loads of armour plating and carry a big gun and you have, wait for it, a heavy Omniframe, which doesn't really move too fast but can at least take some hits. Simples!
ya im not liking the 3 frame forms now a bit as well.
 

Wyntyr

Firstclaimer
Jul 26, 2016
1,046
1,950
113
Florida
#36
Omniframe is a cool term/name and it would be super cool to have one all encompassing frame that's highly adjustable/customizable...but...IMO many peeps would most likely be too confused with the concept and the amount of customization available thus they would be too overwhelmed with the possibilities. However with 3 basic OF styles the choices get split up a bit and would become more digestible for players.
 
#37
Omniframe is a cool term/name and it would be super cool to have one all encompassing frame that's highly adjustable/customizable...but...IMO many peeps would most likely be too confused with the concept and the amount of customization available thus they would be too overwhelmed with the possibilities. However with 3 basic OF styles the choices get split up a bit and would become more digestible for players.
Well we don't want to see it streamlined aka making it to simple, but simplifing might be nice but then again there are games with extreme complexity with many people like eve.
 

EvilKitten

Gatestrider
Base Commander
Jul 26, 2016
572
969
93
#38
Omniframe is a cool term/name and it would be super cool to have one all encompassing frame that's highly adjustable/customizable...but...IMO many peeps would most likely be too confused with the concept and the amount of customization available thus they would be too overwhelmed with the possibilities. However with 3 basic OF styles the choices get split up a bit and would become more digestible for players.
This sounds like an overly vague justification honestly. Why would people be confused? Would you perhaps elaborate on your rational here? The way you said that makes it comes across to me like Em-8er is intended to appeal to the least common denominator.
 

Krhys

Player One
Jul 26, 2016
150
248
43
#39
Omniframe is a cool term/name and it would be super cool to have one all encompassing frame that's highly adjustable/customizable...but...IMO many peeps would most likely be too confused with the concept and the amount of customization available thus they would be too overwhelmed with the possibilities. However with 3 basic OF styles the choices get split up a bit and would become more digestible for players.
One highly customisable frame as opposed to 3 highly customisable frames is more complicated???
 

Pandagnome

Well-Known Member
Happy Kaiju
Jul 27, 2016
2,662
2,208
113
Island of Tofu
#40
Can understand khys one frame thought

Could see the frame you have on the screen and have 3 seperate genric build option icons underneath for light/medium/heavy/
to switch you click on which ever build type then can customize around your playstyle.

Then if you want to favorite the build you have say 2-3 favorite tabs for each frame that way you can keep the build you want for a mission
you prefer using.

My thought on this is omni frame your just wearing 1 frame at a given time although there are 3 frame types its omni in design but if it was tri you would be wearing them all at once! The speed of a cheetah, the strength of a rhino and the adaptability of ant together forms SUPER TRI-FORCE ULTRA BATTLE BEAST MK123 :eek:


just my thoughts but i wouldnt mind a tri-frame :D
 
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