I would love to have a turret focused engineer setup. Complete with customizable turrets or since the omniframe is a mech, transform the omniframe itself into a turret.
Alternatively I would not mind an engineer that has enough explosives to topple a base. That kinda is what combat engineers were for, dismantling enemy defenses and opening gaps for other soldiers to exploit.
Never attack a Seabees Engineer, unless you want them to drive that bulldozer up to your pillbox and crush it with you and your buddies inside. They did that a lot back in WW2.
Alternatively I would not mind an engineer that has enough explosives to topple a base. That kinda is what combat engineers were for, dismantling enemy defenses and opening gaps for other soldiers to exploit.
Never attack a Seabees Engineer, unless you want them to drive that bulldozer up to your pillbox and crush it with you and your buddies inside. They did that a lot back in WW2.
Likes:
Manwild and RaZoR
AS AN ENGENEER, I'D LIKE TO REPAIR OTHER'S STUPID VEHICLES THAT LACKS ON EXPLOSIVE ARMAMENT.
Likes:
NitroMidgets
Please no more turrets. They come with a slew of problems and create serious rifts between playerbases and playstyles, requiring so many tiny tuning tweaks to keep them from being the only tactic everyone needs for literally everything. There are so many more possibilities for a "support/technical" frame--please let's not fall back on such a tired mechanic.
Likes:
Aphaz and NitroMidgets
I was actually going to post something like this today. I think the act of putting static aimbots in an FPS, especially a PC FPS, is counterproductive. Please make any engineer-style abilities/deployables either execution based, or something that strengthens execution based actions
Likes:
NitroMidgets
Wouldn't mind deployables but please no multiple charge deployable crap. It severely impacts how they play and most cases simply weakens each individual deployable to the point they become too frail in harder content; see Multi-turrets getting obliterated in Firefall's harder content. One good turret with a long list of attachments to change it's functionality would be perfectly acceptable. If we give up plenty for it it should be powerful. Yet that power needs subtle limitations that involve a little bit of thinking and not fire and forget; like limited firing angle for starters.
Well, if i would take Grummz word , turrets ain't all that bad. Like a multi purpose tool.
If you think turrets will help you solo, YOU'RE WRONG
if you think you can be lazy and let the turrets do the dirty dishes, YOU'RE WRONG
Those rabbits are a force to commend
ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY TRANSFORM INTO BLOODY RABBITS. now those are a threat to be considered.
Turrets can be used as a decoy/distraction against bloody rabbits (they still can tear your omniframe without breaking a sweat)
And used against the rabbits INCASE YOU PUSSIES NEED EXTRA MANPOWER
If you think turrets will help you solo, YOU'RE WRONG
if you think you can be lazy and let the turrets do the dirty dishes, YOU'RE WRONG
Those rabbits are a force to commend
ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY TRANSFORM INTO BLOODY RABBITS. now those are a threat to be considered.
Turrets can be used as a decoy/distraction against bloody rabbits (they still can tear your omniframe without breaking a sweat)
And used against the rabbits INCASE YOU PUSSIES NEED EXTRA MANPOWER
Likes:
Rocket
Back in FF i mostly played my Bastion-Class Engi, guarding escape routes from enemies or holding them at bay in chokes.
Deployable Turrets are good to defend points. What i feel sci-fi MMOs lack are minion-master type classes and thats where I think the engineer-type might come in. Armed drones or lil' bots that follow you around shoot stuff (FF cinematic), help you with CC, Heal. #DroneArmy
The Scrapper (elite-Engineer from GW2) had something similiar
I know this could encurage solo-play so it would have to be viable for group-play as well.
Deployable Turrets are good to defend points. What i feel sci-fi MMOs lack are minion-master type classes and thats where I think the engineer-type might come in. Armed drones or lil' bots that follow you around shoot stuff (FF cinematic), help you with CC, Heal. #DroneArmy
The Scrapper (elite-Engineer from GW2) had something similiar
I know this could encurage solo-play so it would have to be viable for group-play as well.
Unfortunately, simply saying a thing doesn't make it true, and turrets have either been a dead end in terms of output or an aim trivializer in basically every instance where they've been implemented. I think they're fine in RPGs, where your output is a series of commands anyway, but in a shooter it's best to go down the traps, nades and intel route
Now, here's a counterpoint to my "please no turrets" argument that I'm sure many will find odd: I actually LIKED the base engi's deployable anti-personnel turret because it was something you CONTROLLED. Auto-turrets have always been a sticking point for me, but I loved calling down that big ass minigun chair and using it to mow some bugs. Base some engineer abilities off of THAT idea--controllable deployables--and we're in business.
Likes:
NitroMidgets
Totally agreed, my old bastion setup which worked wonders was multi turret - heavy turret - deployable ammo and health pod and anti personnel turret, worked so well that i only had to redeploy my turrets during thumpers and could be afk for the rest of it. If i can have most of that again i'm happy.
Likes:
NitroMidgets
...
Okay now this is exactly what I'm warning against. Right here. If you loved being AFK for most of the battle, there is something wrong. I'm sorry, but we're going to disagree on this. The controllable turret was the ONLY part of that setup that I'm endorsing. the rest of it, in my opinion, needs to go.
Okay now this is exactly what I'm warning against. Right here. If you loved being AFK for most of the battle, there is something wrong. I'm sorry, but we're going to disagree on this. The controllable turret was the ONLY part of that setup that I'm endorsing. the rest of it, in my opinion, needs to go.
Likes:
NitroMidgets
Well i'm not disagreeing as i didn't say that i liked AFKing, but i also think that auto turrets should be a thing, but not an overpowered thing that makes you able to go afk, so they are something that will help you in battle, not battle for you, but i'm still not against only having controlled turrets. The health and ammo dispensers should stay tho.
Likes:
NitroMidgets
some turret stuff:
allowing a player to be afk and keep reliably killing stuff is bad, but here are a few kinds of turret types i've rarely; if ever seen that might be interesting.
multi, quick deployable automatic status effect turrets: provide some effect through an attack that is difficult to dodge. control enemy behavior by either giving them the status effect or having to be dealt with first. the most obvious examples are snaring or manipulating damage-numbers, but how about a single-deploy turret that aims a laser at the enemy and slowly counts down. when it is done, it deals a lot of damage to one of the enemy's non-health resources(energy, ammo, cooldowns, etc.). fighting within its sight effectively has a time-limit while it still lives. how about a fragile, slow-turning little turret that shoots down projectiles that pass through its LOS; incentivizing you to move as in the green V marked illustrations in the illustration below, and allowing the user to plan around that.
slow-deploy manual indirect fire turrets: while the turret is deployed places you can fire get tinted or marked in some other way. if you reactivate the ability while pointing at a marked area, it bombards the area you indicated. double-tap to make it keep doing that as quickly as possible. hold the ability-button to make it self-destruct and go on cooldown. the enemy is then incentivized to judge its location based on projectile-angle and then either seek it out or keep in cover from it.
there could also be a version where you mark a character rather than an area, and the turret fires homing missiles with a small explosive radius and slow turning in a direction you chose when deploying it. here it it's difficult to get line of sight to the turret, the missiles won't be coming right at you and can thus be more easily tricked into crashing. both these kinds of turrets control enemy behavior by drastically increasing the amount of damage a character can deal (these would need to have some advantage over similar abilities attached to your frame, i favour lower time between activations) while the enemies behave in certain ways. for aiming up the missile-version it might be smart to show how its missiles can turn like this:
allowing a player to be afk and keep reliably killing stuff is bad, but here are a few kinds of turret types i've rarely; if ever seen that might be interesting.
multi, quick deployable automatic status effect turrets: provide some effect through an attack that is difficult to dodge. control enemy behavior by either giving them the status effect or having to be dealt with first. the most obvious examples are snaring or manipulating damage-numbers, but how about a single-deploy turret that aims a laser at the enemy and slowly counts down. when it is done, it deals a lot of damage to one of the enemy's non-health resources(energy, ammo, cooldowns, etc.). fighting within its sight effectively has a time-limit while it still lives. how about a fragile, slow-turning little turret that shoots down projectiles that pass through its LOS; incentivizing you to move as in the green V marked illustrations in the illustration below, and allowing the user to plan around that.
slow-deploy manual indirect fire turrets: while the turret is deployed places you can fire get tinted or marked in some other way. if you reactivate the ability while pointing at a marked area, it bombards the area you indicated. double-tap to make it keep doing that as quickly as possible. hold the ability-button to make it self-destruct and go on cooldown. the enemy is then incentivized to judge its location based on projectile-angle and then either seek it out or keep in cover from it.
there could also be a version where you mark a character rather than an area, and the turret fires homing missiles with a small explosive radius and slow turning in a direction you chose when deploying it. here it it's difficult to get line of sight to the turret, the missiles won't be coming right at you and can thus be more easily tricked into crashing. both these kinds of turrets control enemy behavior by drastically increasing the amount of damage a character can deal (these would need to have some advantage over similar abilities attached to your frame, i favour lower time between activations) while the enemies behave in certain ways. for aiming up the missile-version it might be smart to show how its missiles can turn like this:
see tf2 engineer you can control it but it has auto pilot i prefer the tf2 style of engineer support but can holed his own if needed
Likes:
NitroMidgets
If a person can AFK it means that either the encounter they are facing was not designed for it, or the person is overly prepared for the encounter.
Simply put, enemies can be designed to counter automated turrets. Swarm enemies in particular are good at overrunning single target turrets, tank type enemies are good against ones built for splash damage, and support type enemies could be designed to energy leech a turret (turning it off in the process) or take control of the turret and using it against the player.
In Firefall we did not have enemies within a given species good at taking down turrets, actually for the most part they ignored turrets to go straight for players or the thumper. Letting the turrets do their destruction.
I can see there being 3 types of turrets, small turrets that can be deployed in large numbers, medium sized turrets that are the most flexible, and large turrets that require a player to man them but capable of holding the most powerful of weapons. I can see those turrets being customizable too.
Something we should probably avoid however is turrets that can be stuck to ceilings/walls. Those are the ones that screw with AI the easiest, they are the easiest ones to keep alive, and because of those 2 facts they are also the best turrets for beefing up a defense.
Any turret we use should easily be under threat by the mobs so we as players have to take care of them as much as they help take care of us.
Simply put, enemies can be designed to counter automated turrets. Swarm enemies in particular are good at overrunning single target turrets, tank type enemies are good against ones built for splash damage, and support type enemies could be designed to energy leech a turret (turning it off in the process) or take control of the turret and using it against the player.
In Firefall we did not have enemies within a given species good at taking down turrets, actually for the most part they ignored turrets to go straight for players or the thumper. Letting the turrets do their destruction.
I can see there being 3 types of turrets, small turrets that can be deployed in large numbers, medium sized turrets that are the most flexible, and large turrets that require a player to man them but capable of holding the most powerful of weapons. I can see those turrets being customizable too.
Something we should probably avoid however is turrets that can be stuck to ceilings/walls. Those are the ones that screw with AI the easiest, they are the easiest ones to keep alive, and because of those 2 facts they are also the best turrets for beefing up a defense.
Any turret we use should easily be under threat by the mobs so we as players have to take care of them as much as they help take care of us.