I recall, I said it. No one ever knows if a feature will pull in more people than it pushes away, all anyone can try to understand is if there is an audience for it. The only way to try to figure that out is to see if it's something folks seem to have seemed to like elsewhere. Like I already said, there is no perfectly accurate way to record the enjoyment of any single feature in a game. Game companies do their best to get a sense of it. It's part logic, part instinct, part opinion, part personal preference. It's not an exact science and there is no guarantee.
This is why I said that "people like it" isn't a valid argument. You're appealing to a population of unknown size in the hopes that the game will be an Overwatch and not a Tribes Ascend, Global Agenda, Hawken or SMNC. In all honesty, I dont think turrets had much to do with the success or failure of any of those titles, though turrets did stagnate the meta in CB Hawken and 1.4 GA
The premise of your argument is no better. You want to disregard "like" because it's a subjective thing prone to questions of "how do we know?". Then you tell me to use "mechanical/quantitative" reasons is if those are not prone to each of our personal opinions and questions of "how do we know?" they will result in anybody enjoying them. It's part logic, part instinct, part opinion, part personal preference. It's not an exact science and there is no guarantee.
The point is that you have to actually present some sort of logical argument rather than insisting that I havent. That's kind of how discussions/debates work
Doesn't matter if we have preset classes or custom roles. There should be clear differences in strengths and weaknesses between them. Doesn't matter if it's in their primary or secondary purpose. It still needs to be different from each other for this game.
It's not actually necessary to have glaringly obvious strengths and weaknesses, it's simply a design decision to force teamwork rather than have it happen organically
In your opinion I haven't. Some other folks understood what I was saying.
You mentioned people liking it, then failed to address people who dont, or the number of people who do vs dont, then you made an argument re: games that have the feature that dont work the way I suggest, but then you failed/refused to give examples
That is exactly not having a solid argument
Every different thing has it's own skill curve. Turrets, CC, aoe, whatever. None of them are exactly the same. When I say "easy" that's like, on a spectrum. There is a spectrum for how strong or weak each of those van be too.
The "skill curve" of turrets is a minor learning curve that has to do with not picking out dumb spots for your turrets. You're not accounting for travel time, ammo usage, movement/evasion, tracking, etc. It's just positioning, and that's trivially easy to learn
Doesn't matter what I name. You could easily disagree with my view on it and proclaim yourself right.
I might as well let you do that now and not waste my time debating over yet another thing.
What an interesting way to say there isn't one
I'll use big words if it help you. The ease or difficulty required to perform an action to a certain level of proficiency is the skill requirement.
And there's virtually no difficulty in placing something to have it do work for you. The only skillset at all involved is a minor bit of positioning, and you can teach that with a series of images. Nobody has to step in game to know the sorts of places you should and should not be
I cannot think of any shooter series besides ARMA (which prides itself on being as realistic as possible, thus no hitscan period) that does not have tremendously safe and easy to use hitscan burst weapons.
Quake, Reflex, Serious Sam
In Warframe you can get free evasion buffs, can zip around corners and the braindead AI will just trundle after you or sit behind a box, etc.
Ultimately though, what helps balance out those hitscan burst weapons is how terrible they are when it comes to swarms of enemies. They have to deal with each enemy one at a time. This ultimately is why I never used burst weapons in Warframe for instance, because their slow fire rate was not sufficient against the three factions in the game. Especially early to mid game where the focus was on quantity over quality. Same in Firefall.
Except this doesn't actually carry over into the late/endgame, where weapons with 0 travel time and a lot of front-loaded damage are used extensively. You're also forgetting about shotguns, which absolutely are useful for groups of low-health enemies. The Sancti Tigris and Vaykor Hek trivialize most of the content in Warframe
The biggest issue with Automated Turrets is how many of them can be deployed by a single person.
GA had it such that you could only deploy 1 turret at a time, but 1.4's changes made turrets the singular focus in organized 10v10, to the point where every other class was there to keep them, and the robos buffing them, alive. It's really not about number of turrets, it's about scaling
Well I will just leave it at this: Turret based builds require different skill sets not built around twitch.
No, they just require fewer skill sets. Positioning is still necessary on every other class in the game, it just doesn't reward you so entirely obviously outside of extreme circumstances
Which makes it a good option to bring into the game because it enables a wider audience to come into the game. If the turrets can be customized, and have a wide variety of their own, it will attract the crowd that prefers to think through problems instead of twitch through problems.
Having to aim != having to twitch through problems. Firefall's PVE was actually quite slow for the most part, and rather easy to just blast through unless you were fucking around.
Turrets have their issues, however it is still a case of putting player power in something external that can be destroyed. Unlike other weapon types that can become the end all be all if they have too many bonuses. I would rather see turrets then another weapon like the old Warframe Ogris. As much as I loved the thing.
Except turrets can ALSO be the end all be all if buffed too hard, see again: Global Agenda
Also I'd definitely not like to see DE tier balance in Ember, but adding turrets is not some weird cure for that, only good goals and community feedback can help that.
Also, turrets make for a good excuse to increase the range of enemy types.
In what way? You can range-cap turrets pretty hard if need be
Also what does longer range enemies ultimately add to the game?