Another "game when?" + Focus Change Feedback Thread

[Pandagnome]

The whole system could be marketed as; "Consumables 2.0".


Another small suggestion i want to make is. Please fix the current plasma cannon. I don't want to go too deep into it at the moment, i get it, you guys are very busy but currently the whole thing breaks flow.

One shot every 5 seconds (technically three the first time but it might as well be) is just not fun and the Assault rifle doesn't do much for more aerial, hit and run style combat that the Assault class is known for. Plus, most Assault players are purists.

Either drastically up the recharge and fire rate or no recharge rate. If it ain't broke type of deal. The Assault class, at its peak was know for its potential to get players into a "flow state".

There are other things that in the current demo break flow (mostly recharge rate on jumpjets) but if that one could already find its way in, it would do a lot for players like me who live for this "being in the zone" type of playstyle.

I am wondering if the weapon is standard issue usually those are average and when we have the mods or upgrades thats where we see things come to life with changes in specific stats such as recharge rate or dmg increase etc etc

Would we be able to trial weapon/jetpack types before we proceed with any upgrade that could save the user any inconvenience and save resources/time in doing so.

 

[Dam13n]

I am wondering if the weapon is standard issue usually those are average and when we have the mods or upgrades thats where we see things come to life with changes in specific stats such as recharge rate or dmg increase etc etc

Would we be able to trial weapon/jetpack types before we proceed with any upgrade that could save the user any inconvenience and save resources/time in doing so.

Originally, this was the reason i did not directly complain about it, even though it was the reason i stopped playing the demo. Yes, maybe later down the line, they might add things to "fix this".

Why break it in the first place? If the demo is supposed to wow players, why not just show what the beast can do before you try to put it in a cage and hope that later down the line, if the player hasn't already got frustrated into boredom, they might actually start enjoying themselves.

I'll show you mine, if you show me yours...

This was before the changes to the cannon. There was no need to break the cannon to force me to use the other abilities, i used them organically. If at a later time, the recharge rate on jumpjets would have been tweaked for the better, i could have shown you footage that would have put the old Mobilitykitty to shame and Tracer from Overwatch blush a little.

Currently this is no longer possible in the game. We have regressed.

 

[liandri]

I remember there was a brief period where the glider underwent a number of quick updates. Something like that would be needed, and really expected, later on down the line for the weapons. Probably more so if they get around to adding different weapons for the light and heavy.

I would still prefer a buff system over a durability system, where your weapons are always working as intended, but you can pay a cost to maintain them over a certain threshold. It'd allow you to choose when you want to apply the buff, rather than being debuffed over time, and it might help time-poor players keep their gear more competitive (though only temporarily) against higher tier gear since they might not be able to grind. Rather give the player a reward, then to take away, even though it's technically the same thing.

 

[Pandagnome]

the demo is supposed to wow players, why not just show what the beast can do before you try to put it in a cage and hope that later down the line

Oh yes showing the best helps, it is the initial impression that captures our attention.
Perhaps there could be a small notice at the login screen saying Pilot/mek performance are above standard issue for demo purposes. When future releases are available the performance may vary depending on user upgrades / builds and their choices of mods.

I would still prefer a buff system over a durability system

A hybrid system perhaps the durability is more long term and the boost is short term.

I would still prefer a buff system over a durability system, where your weapons are always working as intended, but you can pay a cost to maintain them over a certain threshold

Would this be provided from, mission rewards, and even ingame currency or the use of specific resources?
Perhaps it is crafted using parts in missions and with the use of ingame currency / resources for quicker assembly.

I wonder what types of customizable buffs we could have and what about debuffs towards opponents etc

 

[Thorp]

I would still prefer a buff system over a durability system, where your weapons are always working as intended, but you can pay a cost to maintain them over a certain threshold. It'd allow you to choose when you want to apply the buff, rather than being debuffed over time, ...

Monster Hunter does this with their melee weapon sharpness. Each cut against a monster reduces the sharpness of the weapon and eventually the weapon is too dull to cut armored areas. The player then needs to sharpen the blade, usually during a fight, to resume cutting armored vulnerable areas.

This method makes the cost a part of doing the task rather than a punishment. It's also part of the fun trying to find an opportunity to sharpen the blade in the midst of combat.

 

[Pandagnome]

Each cut against a monster reduces the sharpness of the weapon and eventually the weapon is too dull to cut armored areas. The player then needs to sharpen the blade, usually during a fight, to resume cutting armored vulnerable areas.

Is the sharpening process efficiency shorter and does it affect durability during combat, rather than doing it at a weapons smith or some station with more precision and control?

 

[Thorp]

Is the sharpening process efficiency shorter and does it affect durability during combat, rather than doing it at a weapons smith or some station with more precision and control?

weapons in Monster Hunter never break, their sharpness dictates what areas of the monster you can cut through. The sharpen weapon item takes somewhere around 5 seconds to use and the weapon is fully sharpened. It's really inexpensive and more part of the routine and plan rather than a hindrance...though sometimes the blade becomes dull at the worst possible time; the player needs to choose when it's worth sharpening and when it's not worth the 5 seconds.

 

[Dam13n]

I would still prefer a buff system over a durability system, where your weapons are always working as intended, but you can pay a cost to maintain them over a certain threshold. It'd allow you to choose when you want to apply the buff, rather than being debuffed over time, and it might help time-poor players keep their gear more competitive (though only temporarily) against higher tier gear since they might not be able to grind. Rather give the player a reward, then to take away, even though it's technically the same thing.

Yeah. Basically a sci-fi version of an enchantment system. That one would fix it too.

It fits...

Edit; maybe that comparison is a bit too far, as those systems tend to be often way more complex.

 

[Dam13n]

Another iteration on a boost system would be that the hybrid consumable items or the "overcharged" gear would be voluntarily activated and tied to an ability. An "overcharge" ability where the depleting only occurs on activation. Further more providing the feeling of agency over the resource sink and potentially even how much to drain at any point.

Essentially, making your frame go Super Saiyan.

(edit: smaller version of gif. Didn't see it on my phone XD)

We might be over thinking this for the moment as in the current demo, probably a basic consumable system would already do the trick. A gameplay loop could consist out of; grinding resources to craft consumables, when the invasion like event occurs, given that this event would be much harder, you would save up your consumables for that event. When the event is over, you return back to preparing for the next event.

This would be the most basic of such a loop.

 

[liandri]

Certainly too complex for just the demo. It might be better to outright forgo anything "durability"-like anyway in terms of equipment for the demo period, and to just focus on the core loop instead. If you were to do it, maybe something like end damage = base damage * condition rounded to nearest integer, and have consumables that increase condition to 1.1-1.2, with X number of shots fired/hits with melee reducing condition by an amount. Minimum condition would be 1.0. That is, if it was "positive durability".

Crafting consumables is good. I'd like to see people craft:
- Weapons (maybe a couple for each frame, possibly modules to alter weapon stats)
- Frame parts (cores, armour plates, etc.)
- Consumables

Perhaps a demo-exclusive skin or shader, or a set of titles. You want the community to market your game through streams and videos, so keeping people in the game for a long period of time (and such, keeping the world populated) is almost necessary. Rewards, linked to their my.em8er account, would encourage it further. On the other hand, we don't know how long the playable mockup would be live, though I would hope it would be live for a while and maybe even updated on occasion to continue to bring people in... Or you could do your Chief Chats through there

 

[Pandagnome]

I would hope it would be live for a while and maybe even updated on occasion to continue to bring people in... Or you could do your Chief Chats through there

Much more better than in discord, imagine while you are playing a transmission alert would be shown in the players hud screen something like this.



When the transmission begins you get the location of the HQ or meet up (marked) see what i did there hu hu.

Then using your compass to arrive there, where the others congregate or just pass by.

This would be a good way to demonstrate certain things ingame and also be able to try new game features right at that moment too.

Also we get to play around and get to know those who are in the Em8er community.
By stalking random members around and standing on their heads for the tower initiation and so on

Plus its much easier to get into the game than discord so thats better in my opinion!

 

[Dam13n]

Something i overlooked so far. The whole system could be trojan horsed in, by simply giving consumables rarities and making higher rarity consumables, also require lower rarity resources.

People love consumables, having different rarities could be seen as a novel thing.

It's an extreme oversimplification but in terms of perpetual carrot and sink, it would probably do the job.

(Sigh. I spent way too much time of my life, thinking about solutions to this problem)

 

[Pandagnome]

I spent way too much time of my life, thinking about solutions to this problem

Someone has to at least with more solutions however odd there is options that could be used or kept for something else that could work perfectly with something else.

So yes more ideas, solutions is great to have in the arsenal

 

[Dam13n]

The reason I always keep coming back to this topic, is two fold.

The first being the more obvious. This is basically the reason Zelda did it. How do you make loot consistent engaging, in a game that essentially has no levels, whether you play it for 10 hours or a 1000? Make it leave the system. Given this, in Firefall, Red5 also didn't have to be stingy with the rewards or the requirements for crafting a basic version of a weapon. Or alternatively something else that leaves the system rather quick but is still tied to your ability to play the game wel.

If you wanted to try out something new, the basic version was easy to get your hands on and if you didn't like it, no problem. It was not a huge waste of time, very little buyers remorse.

Everything rewarded you resources, you could play the game how you wanted and at the end of the day, you could sell the resources you didn't need, buy the ones you did and if you crafted smart(not obsessed with purple). It was all good (enough).

Secondly,

The way that it worked in Firefall turned the printer into a watering hole. I think this is perhaps an even more important benefit. We see this in a lot of other MMO, or MMO lite games. They are very anti social. I already gave the example in this thread of Dauntless. Were the only moment the game becomes social, is when there is an exploit with the crates and people spend all night grinding these in the hub area, goofing off, chatting, etc.

The rewards in the crates isn't even anything special, just consumable cosmetics.

The simplicity but effectiveness of Firefall's loop of easy, plenty reward, high octane play, playing how you want and then the organic consistent downtime of spending time at the printer. Is a something most games miss by a mile, imo.

 

[Pandagnome]

The simplicity but effectiveness of Firefall's loop of easy, plenty reward, high octane play, playing how you want and then the organic consistent downtime of spending time at the printer.

The events where also particularly fun to take part, would hope there are much more varied kinds of events such as:

- Festive events e.g. thanks giving a giant mutant turkey kaiju has risen out from the ashes by evil magic tsihu. Those defeating it can earn a special bonus nano mutant turkey kaiju pet gobbles items up at a distance saving you time to get it and glows in the dark!!! etc

- Style events e.g. pets, pilots and mech, homes to encourage visiting other places and see what they have too those could be featured randomly for folks to turn up knock on your door and invite for a game or some interesting chit chats.


- Race events e.g. bikes, mounts, gliders even vehicles to test yourself on courses could be in a team too against pirates etc to earn things or the risk of your items stolen aaaaargh

- Survival events as a pilot you must work together to get to one point to another it will be slow but make you think how to especially with limited items around due to poor communication interference etc

- Birthday party events all pilots birthdays are announced optional and can donate some ingame currency or resource for the lucky birthday pilot. Enjoy a game of Holodeck pancake tag where you transfer into a selected pet and go around chasing others with a virtual hammer weave in and out hide but if you are a pancake the hammer gets passed for them to continue when the time is up who ever is last with the hammer is a pancake for the entire game.

The last few who are not pancakes win what do they win pancake achievement & enough wins gets you on the spectacular PANCAKE MASTER ELITE emblem to put on your armor etc \o/


Events could be covered at various time zones and for a week or so, they could return and certain events may be special rare events which would be announced in advance such as Eclipse event!

Fellow Reapers must all help find the cats scattered around escaping terror there is much going in the category 8 zone where all are menacing. There are 8 cats in total to find and 8 groups to do this... will it be a catastrophe or purrfect hmm

Save the cats before the Eclipse and you will unite the Em8ercats to the rightful spot to open the octagon gateway


etc etc etc

 

[Dam13n]

The events where also particularly fun to take part, would hope there are much more varied kinds of events such as:

- Festive events e.g. thanks giving a giant mutant turkey kaiju has risen out from the ashes by evil magic tsihu. Those defeating it can earn a special bonus nano mutant turkey kaiju pet gobbles items up at a distance saving you time to get it and glows in the dark!!! etc

- Style events e.g. pets, pilots and mech, homes to encourage visiting other places and see what they have too those could be featured randomly for folks to turn up knock on your door and invite for a game or some interesting chit chats.

Yeah, im also a huge fan of things like halloween and christmas events etc. Just the general atmosphere. This was something Firefall kinda lacked in a bit imo, if I recall correct.

Compared to other MMOs. Guild wars 2 ones are bonkers. It's basically a festival.

 

[Dam13n]

The simplicity but effectiveness of Firefall's loop of easy, plenty reward, high octane play, playing how you want and then the organic consistent downtime of spending time at the printer. Is a something most games miss by a mile, imo.

I got reminded of this playing Wafinder. It's a good game, basically Warframe meets Dauntless. Nice mechanics and variation in the dungeons, interesting mini games in these dungeons. Open world with sorta dynamic events.

There's a lot it does right. But damn, is the grind real....

The crafting costs are through the roof, plus for a lot of these you have to pray to RNGesus to get a very specific event in a dungeon, offer three first borne almost extinct animals, at the right time of day, facing south, south east, on an empty stomach. Basic components in lower level areas that don't give a lot of XP. Now you have to make a choice. Do you want the weapon or do you want to level up? Can't really do both.

We kinda learned to put up with this but come on. Well, thank god we don't have item decay right...

 

[Pandagnome]

Wayfinder didn't really appeal to me personally, perhaps it was the theme & looks like another mmo. Also the player has not an option to create a custom character etc etc.

However it is early days with the game still i am not really sure and if things do change who knows.

What i am really keen on is this game called Em8er, and hope the progress will continue to be steady
to finally have a good beta and make an impression to get more involved.

Sooooon i hope hmm

 

[Dam13n]

Wayfinder didn't really appeal to me personally, perhaps it was the theme & looks like another mmo. Also the player has not an option to create a custom character etc etc.

However it is early days with the game still i am not really sure and if things do change who knows.

Probably best. Burnout happened rather quick for me too. A combination of things, mostly the wall of grind and for me personally that you cant really play it as a fun mindless "hack and slash" game unless you play Wingrave (healing tank), which is a missed opportunity, imo, because dashing around with the greatsword is hella fun.

The simplicity but effectiveness of Firefall's loop of easy, plenty reward, high octane play, playing how you want and then the organic consistent downtime of spending time at the printer. Is a something most games miss by a mile, imo.

In a way, the convoluted nature of the crafting and always having to run back and forth between the printer and garage, may even have helped this further. Yes, crafting was probably needlessly complex but for that specific use, it might have been a benefit. Plus the timers.

We naturally used to spend a lot of time around the printer and not just to push a button and be done with it.

Wayfinder made the same mistake so many online games make today. No reason for consistent downtime. Not a social game, so why play an MMO then.

 

[Dam13n]

Imma bump this one more time.

For almost a decade on the forums we have discussed item decay, in game economics, fun vs function, etc.

If item decay is too spicy and consumables is too mild, is there a middle ground to be had? Is there a solution to this puzzle that might please, not everyone... but most.

As Em8er is a game about collecting resources and the loop is closer to a survival game than tradition MMO, this remains an important question imo.