Another "game when?" + Focus Change Feedback Thread

[Pandagnome]

I recall something was mentioned of a portal where if those in the instanced boss encounter and the others who are not are defending or doing others things, both could be impactful to each other.

E.g. If the boss was not defeated it could mean the boss escapes and a likely chance to enter into the open world etc

E.g. If the horde was not stopped then they could take over a main area that we need or even hijack a portal etc.

Are there any advantages of instanced encounters such as making it more of a story mode etc

 

[Sy]

^^
The horde is more varied in its uses, you can take the pieces and arrange them differently to make various encounters.

For example, the knee biters a knee biters nest, the humanoids attack a tower with a win and lose state, etc. While the boss encounter is limited in its versatility. Especially if it starts off being instanced.

I think we're on the same general page with this. I agree the boss encounter isn't a good idea for Kickstarter; it's one of the few points Grummz and I directly disagree on.

 

[liandri]

I recall something was mentioned of a portal where if those in the instanced boss encounter and the others who are not are defending or doing others things, both could be impactful to each other.

I remember that too. As long as both events are just as enjoyable as each other, it would work. Player defending OCT in Firefall used to split pretty evenly during the event, and used the general chat if one of the bases were overwhelmed.

 

[Dam13n]

Bump.

It's a hill i'll die on, horde VS boss.

Look at the competition, Destiny, Warframe. Horde mechanics are their bread and butter. A boss encounter is more there to break up the routine. It's like Gwent in the Witcher 3, basically. Plus, it's like a little conveyor belt, the work on one builds up on another.

Now ask me about item decay....

 

[Dam13n]

Now ask me about item decay....

I mean it...

 

[Pandagnome]

It's a hill i'll die on

"Not today your job is not finished".... the medic looks at you near the respawn chamber

I mean it...

Would certain weapons decay faster such as

- A super powerful space cannon that either blows up or some part of the cannon breaks after one or two time use annoying but it uses lots of energy etc etc

That is challenging just to rebuild it or craft the specific part(s) again !

 

[farias]

I remember that too. As long as both events are just as enjoyable as each other, it would work. Player defending OCT in Firefall used to split pretty evenly during the event, and used the general chat if one of the bases were overwhelmed.

Almost as if the players have a collective mind. When it worked well it was very satisfying to be part of it.

 

[Dam13n]

Mark. Don't you want to prove everybody wrong?

If the Legend of Zelda, can introduce item decay, in a way more draconian way than Firefall ever did. Doesn't that feel as if something was taken?

Doesn't it feel as if you were on to something, all along?

 

[farias]

If the Legend of Zelda, can introduce item decay, in a way more draconian way than Firefall ever did. Doesn't that feel as if something was taken?

Doesn't it feel as if you were on to something, all along?

I personally didnt't like item decay, because after grinding for so long to gather some materials to build an item, it seemed that all the work wasn't worth it just to enjoy the item for such a short time afterwards. Maybe if only the item lasted longer it would be less frustrating.
But I'd be willing to test such a feature again just to see if it's not as bad as I remember it.

 

[Dam13n]

I personally didnt't like item decay, because after grinding for so long to gather some materials to build an item, it seemed that all the work wasn't worth it just to enjoy the item for such a short time afterwards. Maybe if only the item lasted longer it would be less frustrating.
But I'd be willing to test such a feature again just to see if it's not as bad as I remember it.

Here's the kicker. It imo, seprates then young from the less young. You are not supposed to like item decay. Hence the analogy of eating your vegies.

You are supposed to put up with it. It serves a purpose. A circle of life thing.

What goes in, comes out. The value of resources are tied to the value of IG currency, and visa versa. Money only has value because of what you can buy with it and how much you want it. Maybe the reason most rich people are miserable. IDK, i'm not rich.

A king Midas type of deal.

 

[Dam13n]

But yeah, the same goal could also be reached with a robust, whatever the si-fi version of a consumable system is. Like power cores or something.

I just wanted to point out that back in the day, Firefall was seen as this game that tried to do something completely new and even controversial but if Firefall would launch today people would more so say "Ah this makes sense, it's basically just a mash-up of everything that's popular."

 

[farias]

It imo, seprates then young from the less young.

It actually separates the hardcore from the casual players. Because it limits access to items and activities, since a casual player usually wouldn't have the time to grind for equipment required to be able to survive in a higher tier activity. A person interested in such harder activity would have to spend all his/her available time obtaining materials to build the higher quality equipment required for the activity, then would have no time to play the activity, and in the end would still lose the item that the person worked so hard to get, which in my opinion creates a very frustrating cycle and act more like an obstacle for those players.

Hence the analogy of eating your vegies.

Not sure if the analogy can be used in this case because veggies are good for everyone even if the person doesn't like it, and as I said above, item decay can be bad for some types of players and even drive them away from the game, which I believe can be bad for the game itself.

 

[Dam13n]

It actually separates the hardcore from the casual players. Because it limits access to items and activities, since a casual player usually wouldn't have the time to grind for equipment required to be able to survive in a higher tier activity. A person interested in such harder activity would have to spend all his/her available time obtaining materials to build the higher quality equipment required for the activity, then would have no time to play the activity, and in the end would still lose the item that the person worked so hard to get, which in my opinion creates a very frustrating cycle and act more like an obstacle for those players.

True, that is another way of looking at it. It is certainly going to affect casual players more negatively than people playing longer hours. A tweak for this would for example be, making it only affect higher level players or having more impact at higher levels.

But, my point still stands that, if you want a reason to keep grinding, something similar is going to be needed. If you can easily get all the best stuff and keep all the best stuff. Then there is no extrinsic motivation for grind. Other MMOs solve this with level cap increases etc. Item decay was at the time Firefall's solution to that problem and the way it was implemented in open beta, was IMO pretty mild.

Decay only occurred on death, for example. Everything rewarded you with resources. It was not very draconian.

But, there are other solutions to accomplish the same goal. I just think it's funny it got implemented in a Zelda game.

 

[Dam13n]

I think the most balanced version i can come up with is... Remember the old power alocation system in Firefall? Power, cpu and mass. Power increased damage, cpu cooldowns on abilities and mass jumpjets.

If those would for example be three power cells you can slot in your mech, have different rarities and the max rarity being like a 40% boost in that area.

It isn't impossible to play the game without, the components are generic enough no one has emotional attachments to it, like with weapons and stuff and lower tiers would still be effective. Once every week or so, you simply have to recraft them or buy them from the market.

Though that doesn't solve the problem as well as the decay and constraint system did. As that one made lower level resources equally retain value. It at least creates a perpetual sink than most people would not oppose. Maybe if the cells required certain lower tier resources too, even at higher levels...

 

[Pandagnome]

I think if decay was implemented i'd hope it is quite slow.

I think the most balanced version i can come up with is... Remember the old power alocation system in Firefall? Power, cpu and mass. Power increased damage, cpu cooldowns on abilities and mass jumpjets.

If those would for example be three power cells you can slot in your mech, have different rarities and the max rarity being like a 40% boost in that area.

It isn't impossible to play the game without, the components are generic enough

Also with the idea of additional power cells that could be interesting until they lose efficiency or stop.
If these are like rechargeable batteries they could be powered by various ways

- Kinetic from movement, weapon firey, impact and even friction etc
- Solar charge from light sources
- wind charge, perhaps as an example everytime you glide in the air, slide down big hills or even surf etc

Would these require specific kind of cell to do that or would all power cells have this feature?


So the player could do perhaps a few things with power cells e.g.

- Re-stabilize power cell (Temp fix until it goes complete poop)
- Exchange at Market place for a lower cost depending on its life e.g. 50% life could cost 50% off
- Recycle power cell for materials and create a new power cell

 

[Dam13n]

Thumping was extremely addictive and a major part of that addiction came from that system. The resources retained in value, because of how much everyone needed them.

People took days off work to grind when extremely rare resources spawned. People had nightmares of their spot being stolen, waking up in the middle of the night going "no, my spot, my spot!!!".

You will not be able to recreate this without a decent sink imo or one that does not affects the player personally.

It needs to hurt a little.



....Plus, Zelda did it.

 

[Dam13n]

Also, I want to make it clear one more time, I am not suggestion a full on decay system as that one might indeed create more problems than it fixes. More a hybrid between a decay system and a consumable system.

The item is generic enough but it still has rarities and you don't need to micro manage it. Only like once a week or so, do you really have to deal with it.

 

[Pandagnome]

Thumping was extremely addictive and a major part of that addiction came from that system. The resources retained in value, because of how much everyone needed them.

Thumping was one aspect that was fun when others helped out, then there were other things such as those side missions racing across on the motorbike to another.

I am not suggestion a full on decay system as that one might indeed create more problems than it fixes. More a hybrid between a decay system and a consumable system.

To me this seems good because you have choices on how to maintain the device.
What is the effectiveness of the decay system compared to the consumable system does it depend on the resource rarity, % mixture and the right quantity?

Would there be super consumables that are potent but last for shorter duration etc etc?

What do others think about it?

 

[Dam13n]

 

[Dam13n]

The whole system could be marketed as; "Consumables 2.0".


Another small suggestion i want to make is. Please fix the current plasma cannon. I don't want to go too deep into it at the moment, i get it, you guys are very busy but currently the whole thing breaks flow.

One shot every 5 seconds (technically three the first time but it might as well be) is just not fun and the Assault rifle doesn't do much for more aerial, hit and run style combat that the Assault class is known for. Plus, most Assault players are purists.

Either drastically up the recharge and fire rate or no recharge rate. If it ain't broke type of deal. The Assault class, at its peak was know for its potential to get players into a "flow state".

There are other things that in the current demo break flow (mostly recharge rate on jumpjets) but if that one could already find its way in, it would do a lot for players like me who live for this "being in the zone" type of playstyle.