My thoughts and ideas as a gamer and a designer

[cross-x]

There a quite a few things that i think most games need to recognize and i believe they will be expressed in this game.
1. Ranks should not represent over powered gear instead ranks should be based on skill such as counter strike or league of legends
2. Most games now should stick to a cost of around 15-20 dollars as though those are the most successful and best for players and the developers
3. DLC content should add new and interesting things but they should not by any means be overpowering for instance in Tom Clancy The Division the game had perfect leveling and a decent fairness inside of each bracket but the guns were all generally balance depending on xp rank and my opinions on that have already been stated in topic #1. But within the ranks there were balanced fights with each gun having fair and equal opportunities. Once DLC hit this all changed however
4. Grinding and normal players - Now as though we all know that grinding is one of the things we can all say we have done it should not be essential to the games mechanics and it should be balanced somehow with the individual person.
5. PvP and PvE - This comes from the heart by saying these two need to be balanced and what i mean by this is my friend who loves PvE can not keep up with me (In some games) because of the overpowered drops and xp in PvP which is my favorite thing to do in a game and in contrast some games like defiance i cant keep up with him. These need to be balanced if i choose to stick to PvP and my friend chooses PvE and we have about the same hours we should both be in about the same rank and gear level
6. Coin systems and points - Some of my favorite games have used this method which id like to describe. Planetside 2 the free to play shooter struggled at first with making the points (Certs) available by the free 2 play players but still making money and have found a easy solution in which i commend them for Certs (Coins) are used for everything. To armor upgrades and even gun upgrades in perks there is nothing not available by these coins. Meaning i do not have to be rank 13 to use this gun i just need to save up a certain amount of points to own that gun.
7. Following games past - With the following theme of hindsight 20/20 we should listen to what i believe some games did perfectly with free 2 play weekends and other different nice things for example Call of Duty one of my least favorite games really did some unique and interesting things that once again i have to give them credit for 1. Double xp weekends 2. Free 2 play weeks every so often as to inspire new players. 3. Just sometimes listening to outcry such as nerfs and buffs to certain or all guns =.

So let me just thank mark for reading this and anyone else who may stumble upon this.
If you would like to hear any of my other opinions my Youtube link is https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQFYdS1YVpRjYDYjXOma13w
One last time thank you all for taking the time out of your day to read this

 

[cross-x]

I understand the flaws in spelling they will be fixed later tonight.

 

[Noctus]

I feel that Firefall had the right idea at the end. PvP should be completely gated and separately balanced from PvE. If you go into a PvP mode, there needs to be separate stats from each weapon and piece of gear. As we've seen in many other MMO's with focused fair PvP, a calss balanced for PvP isn't neccicarily balanced for PvE and vice versa. Every time, they tried to create a system where both were combined you stepped on peoples toes, by making froms too overpowered in PvP or too underpowered in PvE.

Ideally, if PvP is included at the start of the game, it would almost function as a completely separate game from the PvE. And would have nearly zero power progression, if not no progression at all.

As far, as PvE progression goes. I hope we see an even more horizontal progression system than even it's peak during the Tech Tree and Tiers system, where instead of gaining any vertical progression, you instead have a give and take system where to gain more of one thing you have to sacrifice something else, and the progression comes from opening up more options rather than stronger versions of stuff we already have. A good example of this would be like a MOBA, where you progress by unlocking new characters rather than making current characters "better."

 

[Tragedy]

The problem with Elite Ranks was not that they made you stronger, it was that you could have everything because there was no limit. That is assuming Elite Ranks were the core problem in 1.6, which they were not - but that's another topic entirely.

I agree with Noctus - having a system where you give and take would be ideal, specialization at the sacrifice of other attributes. Increased AoE at the cost of less duration, etc. This can be done many ways, and doesn't need to be as boring as through Elite Ranks or a passive skill tree. Ideally this would be done through advanced frames, but we'll see what happens.

I do not want to have a rank system similar to LoL or CS because that does not encourage playing the objective, which in a PvE game is pretty fucking important.

 

[Noctus]

I agree with Noctus - having a system where you give and take would be ideal, specialization at the sacrifice of other attributes. Increased AoE at the cost of less duration, etc. This can be done many ways, and doesn't need to be as boring as through Elite Ranks or a passive skill tree. Ideally this would be done through advanced frames, but we'll see what happens.

I do not want to have a rank system similar to LoL or CS because that does not encourage playing the objective, which in a PvE game is pretty fucking important.

The constraints system did this really well. I hope that's the design system we go with in this game now that permanent breakage isn't a thing, which was the biggest nuisance with that system.

 

[DommyNator]

I like the free2play model, but understand that could cause cash flow problems. I don't play regularly because of outside things I need to do, so a monthly fee also does not work for me. I like the model used in the GuildWars games where you buy the game and the big expansion packs. If you don't buy the expansions, you cannot go beyond a certain areal, etc. but otherwise there are no penalties to game play. That seems to work best for me. I don't know how others feel about that, but it would guarantee some income along with in-game purchases.
Otherwise, I tend to agree with OP.

 

[Shivaji]

There a quite a few things that i think most games need to recognize and i believe they will be expressed in this game.
1. Ranks should not represent over powered gear instead ranks should be based on skill such as counter strike or league of legends
2. Most games now should stick to a cost of around 15-20 dollars as though those are the most successful and best for players and the developers
3. DLC content should add new and interesting things but they should not by any means be overpowering for instance in Tom Clancy The Division the game had perfect leveling and a decent fairness inside of each bracket but the guns were all generally balance depending on xp rank and my opinions on that have already been stated in topic #1. But within the ranks there were balanced fights with each gun having fair and equal opportunities. Once DLC hit this all changed however
4. Grinding and normal players - Now as though we all know that grinding is one of the things we can all say we have done it should not be essential to the games mechanics and it should be balanced somehow with the individual person.
5. PvP and PvE - This comes from the heart by saying these two need to be balanced and what i mean by this is my friend who loves PvE can not keep up with me (In some games) because of the overpowered drops and xp in PvP which is my favorite thing to do in a game and in contrast some games like defiance i cant keep up with him. These need to be balanced if i choose to stick to PvP and my friend chooses PvE and we have about the same hours we should both be in about the same rank and gear level
6. Coin systems and points - Some of my favorite games have used this method which id like to describe. Planetside 2 the free to play shooter struggled at first with making the points (Certs) available by the free 2 play players but still making money and have found a easy solution in which i commend them for Certs (Coins) are used for everything. To armor upgrades and even gun upgrades in perks there is nothing not available by these coins. Meaning i do not have to be rank 13 to use this gun i just need to save up a certain amount of points to own that gun.
7. Following games past - With the following theme of hindsight 20/20 we should listen to what i believe some games did perfectly with free 2 play weekends and other different nice things for example Call of Duty one of my least favorite games really did some unique and interesting things that once again i have to give them credit for 1. Double xp weekends 2. Free 2 play weeks every so often as to inspire new players. 3. Just sometimes listening to outcry such as nerfs and buffs to certain or all guns =.

So let me just thank mark for reading this and anyone else who may stumble upon this.
If you would like to hear any of my other opinions my Youtube link is https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQFYdS1YVpRjYDYjXOma13w
One last time thank you all for taking the time out of your day to read this

This is as the the original Firefall before the launch...
1. I dont think we had a leveling system the weapons or items you wear dependent on the core (the central system of your frame) if your core can handle it then you can wear it.
2. For a start 20 dollars is good, the history of R5 was that firefall project was about to close and mark brought investors for the game to actually happen, but now its more of a crowdfunded game.
3. Mark has already mentioned about the DLC in his Q&A it will have only map expansion or cosmetics and not higher level weapons, everything is crafted in firefall that was why there were more minerals in the game with different qualities.
4. Grinding - for minerals YES.
5. I am a PVE player if there is no leveling system like the original then this wouldnt be a problem.
6. Any free mmo nowadays have the micro-transactions. That said all cosmetics, 2 or 4 wheelers, glider, base building starter packs and more will be in that.
7. I agree to it if there is a free to play demo version for like 3 days for new comers it would be really great.

The above points which I have mentioned are my memories of the original firefall, the extra additions are Marks decisions.

Thanks

 

[john alex]

The problem with Elite Ranks was not that they made you stronger, it was that you could have everything because there was no limit. That is assuming Elite Ranks were the core problem in 1.6, which they were not - but that's another topic entirely.

I agree with Noctus - having a system where you give and take would be ideal, specialization at the sacrifice of other attributes. Increased AoE at the cost of less duration, etc. This can be done many ways, and doesn't need to be as boring as through Elite Ranks or a passive skill tree. Ideally this would be done through advanced frames, but we'll see what happens.

I do not want to have a rank system similar to LoL or CS because that does not encourage playing the objective, which in a PvE game is pretty fucking important.

Would people have reached such high Elite ranks levels if it weren't for the xp packs or the exploitation of Baneclaw? NO! It is not elite ranks that spoiled the game but the dev's implementation system.

 

[Grummz]

There a quite a few things that i think most games need to recognize and i believe they will be expressed in this game.
1. Ranks should not represent over powered gear instead ranks should be based on skill such as counter strike or league of legends

Just because we might have tiers, doesn't mean it reps skill. Being skill based, we also need a good representation of something, rank or otherwise, that reflects that. Good idea.

2. Most games now should stick to a cost of around 15-20 dollars as though those are the most successful and best for players and the developers

Games are too expensive. If we can keep our production costs down, and be more of sandbox/procedural type system, I can see a reasonable price for Ember. Dunno what that is is. Many $20 games are 2D and cheaper to make. Cities: Skylines is about $30 for example, and its production costs reflect that.

3. DLC content should add new and interesting things but they should not by any means be overpowering for instance in Tom Clancy The Division the game had perfect leveling and a decent fairness inside of each bracket but the guns were all generally balance depending on xp rank and my opinions on that have already been stated in topic #1. But within the ranks there were balanced fights with each gun having fair and equal opportunities. Once DLC hit this all changed however

Not selling guns, not doing F2P style design. Nope, nope nope.

4. Grinding and normal players - Now as though we all know that grinding is one of the things we can all say we have done it should not be essential to the games mechanics and it should be balanced somehow with the individual person.

All games have grinding. The trick is making it fun. In EQ you killed mobs over and over to level. In WoW we "hid" the grind by doing tons of quests that gave the majority of xp. Now players have figured that out and are bored with it. I agree that our "grinding" is going to be more like Minecraft grinding...resource mining and the fun encounters we can base around that.

5. PvP and PvE - This comes from the heart by saying these two need to be balanced and what i mean by this is my friend who loves PvE can not keep up with me (In some games) because of the overpowered drops and xp in PvP which is my favorite thing to do in a game and in contrast some games like defiance i cant keep up with him. These need to be balanced if i choose to stick to PvP and my friend chooses PvE and we have about the same hours we should both be in about the same rank and gear level

Right now, Ember is PvE only. I've never found a way to design for both at the same time. Later, if we do PvP, it will likely be "tournament standard frames" or something like that.

6. Coin systems and points - Some of my favorite games have used this method which id like to describe. Planetside 2 the free to play shooter struggled at first with making the points (Certs) available by the free 2 play players but still making money and have found a easy solution in which i commend them for Certs (Coins) are used for everything. To armor upgrades and even gun upgrades in perks there is nothing not available by these coins. Meaning i do not have to be rank 13 to use this gun i just need to save up a certain amount of points to own that gun.

Again, not sure we'll even have this. Trying to avoid any F2P style mechanics. But maybe. Too early to tell. I can see earning points for skill to acquire cosmetics we otherwise sell.

7. Following games past - With the following theme of hindsight 20/20 we should listen to what i believe some games did perfectly with free 2 play weekends and other different nice things for example Call of Duty one of my least favorite games really did some unique and interesting things that once again i have to give them credit for 1. Double xp weekends 2. Free 2 play weeks every so often as to inspire new players. 3. Just sometimes listening to outcry such as nerfs and buffs to certain or all guns =.

Yep, love them free weekends and other promotions.

So let me just thank mark for reading this and anyone else who may stumble upon this.
If you would like to hear any of my other opinions my Youtube link is https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQFYdS1YVpRjYDYjXOma13w
One last time thank you all for taking the time out of your day to read this

 

[Tragedy]

Would people have reached such high Elite ranks levels if it weren't for the xp packs or the exploitation of Baneclaw? NO! It is not elite ranks that spoiled the game but the dev's implementation system.

I know players in 1.6 who reached ER1k entirely legit, no durst, no VD, no xp packs. Again, ranks don't make you a good player - 1.7 is proof of that. The core problem with 1.6/7 has always been that you can directly modify your damage through Tinkers, Power Rating and Force Modules, abilities can do 5-10m damage per activation.

I don't hate Elite Ranks, and I don't think they were overpowered in the least - but I don't want to see them or a similar system in Ember, either. Should for whatever reason we decide that we want Elite Ranks, I would like to see a weekly cap on the amount of Elite Ranks you can gain on a single frame, starting high and then decreasing as you gained more ranks. This would allow new players to catch up to veterans and encourage playing multiple frames.

 

[Tragedy]

Being skill based, we also need a good representation of something, rank or otherwise, that reflects that. Good idea.

I would avoid this at all costs - I've been playing Firefall for a long time, and people have been consistently terrible. This isn't just Firefall though, this is all games: people suck. If you add a way to identify "player skill" it will only encourage elitism, playing the game in a way it wasn't designed (abusing the system for maximum rank instead of actually playing the game,) and it prevents new players or people who simply aren't very good from playing in the end game.

We already have this issue in Firefall with Elite Ranks, and those aren't even a sign of player skill, "LFM Defense of Dredge 300ER+ only!" is not something I'd like to see in Ember.

 

[SunderPlunder]

Anyone remember during FF"S milestone had no leveling system? That was good , it meant you could go anywhere you want , depending on your skill. Just my opinion tho.

 

[polarity]

Anyone remember during FF"S milestone had no leveling system? That was good , it meant you could go anywhere you want , depending on your skill. Just my opinion tho.

Sure would be nice to have an MMO game where instead of 'endgame' being instanced for groups, it was instead in pockets of the open-world, but too hard to solo, needing teamwork and class synergy to go there.

Firefall's Invasions were open-world teamwork content, but the issue was that they brought far too many players to one location for the servers, or many of the players' computers, to handle.

Perhaps instead the open-world could contain a number of areas that need players to work as groups, so that the impromptu 'raids' are spread out, but perhaps they could fade out on the map as more players arrive, to show that they are soon going to reach a point at which your participation will be giving diminished rewards, encouraging players to go to newer spawns rather than take on content with more players than intended.