Some thoughts about crafting/durability/items/lootz

[Sik San]

DISCLAIMER: That is my HO and this thread opened for active discussion.



Hi, Mark!

1. Durability
Yeah, I know you don't want to make wearing out gear. But I hope you might reconsider.
Since Ember have to incorporate some of sandbox elements, it's pretty essential feature that also makes crafting and crafters very valuable. It should not be hardcore as fk when your rifle is blowing up in your hands after 50 shots fired, but the system I'd love to see is something like that:
- Items have max durability.
- Each repair decreases max durability
- An item considered beyond repair at certain stage (let's say - 5-10% of max durability value).

So you can delay/eliminate gear overstack + make crafting as one of the essential parts of gameplay.

Personally I like crafting, and I like when I know that my work rly matters.

2. Loot
To make crafting even more meaningful it could be great if most of the loot will be obtained as spare parts/crafting ingredients wich should be used in crafting to make any gear your character needs.

So you're traveling in the open world, thumping raw mats, fighting aliens and looting weird devices and techs to make sick guns etc. Feels much more fun than just looting imba lazer from a mutant beast that does not even have hands to hold it

Once again, this makes crafting and crafters valuable and encourages social interactions.

 

[Cadbane]

I hate the idea of losing an item due to it being not be able to be repair. There is nothing more demoralizing then seeing that weapon you spent forever making get tossed into the recycle bin.

I think a more approachable idea would to be to replace parts of the item as they get worn beyond repair. Going one step further, you should be able to swap out components of your item with the same type components(think of it as a slot). This would allow you to tweak stats using different components (with different stats). When components get damaged beyond repair, you have a choice to replace it with what you have on hand or the item becomes considerably weaker, but still usable.

 

[NoahDVS]

The durability system introduced in the Firefall beta should be thrown into the fires of hell and left to burn for all eternity. That implementation was by far one of the worst I've ever seen.

 

[Sik San]

I hate the idea of losing an item due to it being not be able to be repair. There is nothing more demoralizing then seeing that weapon you spent forever making get tossed into the recycle bin.

I think a more approachable idea would to be to replace parts of the item as they get worn beyond repair. Going one step further, you should be able to swap out components of your item with the same type components(think of it as a slot). This would allow you to tweak stats using different components (with different stats). When components get damaged beyond repair, you have a choice to replace it with what you have on hand or the item becomes considerably weaker, but still usable.

That will do too. But much more complicated in development I guess.

 

[OziriusSVK]

Hello, lots of things were mentioned on fanpage http://www.thmpr02.com/threads/crafting-depth-in-a-crafting-system.29/ , so now we can continue discussion here

 

[Wintersiege]

The one thing I didnt mind about permanent equipment damage was the fact that you did everything in your power to NOT die, like, ever. The later stages of Firefall basically meant almost nothing when you died.

I guess I have a soft spot for death meaning something as I started my online gaming with Everquest back when Luclin launched and dying back then, in that game often meant contacting your friends/guild to help you recover your possessions which very much gave a sense of urgency to surviving and/or networking.

 

[EviltwO]

The one thing I didnt mind about permanent equipment damage was the fact that you did everything in your power to NOT die, like, ever. The later stages of Firefall basically meant almost nothing when you died.

I guess I have a soft spot for death meaning something as I started my online gaming with Everquest back when Luclin launched and dying back then, in that game often meant contacting your friends/guild to help you recover your possessions which very much gave a sense of urgency to surviving and/or networking.

yeah. death started to mean something and everyone tried to avoid it. from one side it made game a bit less fun (cause on stages before you would rush alot and no care about it ) but from other side it made game more interesting in questions of getting/not getting into fight, relying on yourself/mates and ofc. it became harder.

As i remember community was not very happy about durability (very-very not happy) but it wasn't that scary cause losing your gear could take months ^_^
i actually started to love this feature when it gone already.

So according to reaction in past i think they should not implement this again, according to myself i would like to see this again

 

[PlzBanMe]

Durability is never added for fun but to encourage player behavior. In WoW it is used to help eat up extra gold. In most free to play game it is there to get you to spend more money. Unless there is a need to pull weapon out of the system we really don't need this mechanic. Breaking down weapons to get resourced might be worth looking instead of using durability.

 

[NitroMidgets]

Man, does the NDA from my visit to Red5 still count?

Not saying it was mentioned at that time as that would be violating the NDA but imagine if it had a resource sink such as call downs to be used in battle that would use our resources rather then having to spend them on repairing our weapons? Calldown, clan items and so on. Not sure where I heard it said but it sure sounded, I mean sounds like a much better resources sink then what Red5 went with. Hypothetically speaking, naturally.

 

[Juno]

I wouldn't mind a modified system for durability, instead of permanent breakage. Like a 'tune-up' system instead, where stats deplete and the occasional tune-up brings it back up to near-new quality. Maybe after multiple tune-ups, items still don't function as well as a new model even after the repairs, but are still usable.

 

[Ronyn]

In addition to the crafting of gear and weaponry that won't break....
Expect to see the resources used in the creation and replacing of the various call downs and buildings that can and will be destroyed.

 

[NitroMidgets]

In addition to the crafting of gear and weaponry that won't break....
Expect to see the resources used in the creation and replacing of the various call downs and buildings that can and will be destroyed.

Yeah, that's what I wanted to hear.

 

[Ronyn]

Yeah, that's what I wanted to hear.

I was picking up what you were putting down.

 

[Skyewauker]

You honestly cannot have a crafter driven economy without durability. They go hand in hand. Without durability, crafters are just irrelevant. Firefall implemented it horribly. SWG did it perfectly. If you don't do perma durability, you might as well copy / .paste the WoW typical crafting system and call it a day.

To Cadbane, with a crafter driven economy, you aren't supposed to be the jack of all trades. You arent supposed to be 1 class and craft the best gear, fight the best, travel the best, etc.

Crafters need to be a stand alone class. You really need to go play the swg emu. You would understand then.

 

[Ronyn]

You honestly cannot have a crafter driven economy without durability.

I think this leads to two important questions.
1: Has a "crafter driven economy" been announced as one of the design goals?
2: If so, would the continuous crafting of various destroyable call downs and buildings potentially fulfill that need?

 

[Skyewauker]

I think this leads to two important questions.
1: Has a "crafter driven economy" been announced as one of the design goals?
2: If so, would the continuous crafting of various destroyable call downs and buildings potentially fulfill that need?

1. With any TRUE sandbox, its always a crafter driven economy. If not, its not a sandbox. It takes a playstyle and tosses it out of the window... a huge playstyle at that.

The theme park, WoW style crafting is (yawn yawn yawn). I lump it in with mistakes and the cookie cutter MMO of today (levels , ! for quests, on rails, MEANINGLESS crafting).

2. Oh without a doubt. Weapons / Armor doesn't have to be perma break, but a lot has to be or crafters as a "main" class / profession / role is just meaningless.

A list of things you could have :

Calldowns
- Thumpers
- Vehicles

Gathering tools
- Hatchets, "Scan Hammers"

Powerups for Combat
- Damage modifiers (Damage Enhancement Shot)
- Defense Modifiers (Health Boosting Shot)

Weapons and Armor
- Self explanatory

Buffs
- Doctor / Entertainer Buffs - in SWG let you be enhanced for periods of time. Administered by a "doctor" profession. People paid / tipped for them

 

[Sik San]

You honestly cannot have a crafter driven economy without durability. They go hand in hand. Without durability, crafters are just irrelevant.

That is what i tried to point out.

 

[Ronyn]

I could debate some of the statements made regarding number 1 but...

2. Oh without a doubt.

....since the goal for Ember is to more-or-less cover the general ideas expressed in number 2 I'd like to think you should be rather pleased with the planned economic model as it comes to be.

 

[Skyewauker]

That is what i tried to point out.

Yea. Most of these players have seen Firefalls implementation of durability. They failed at it. To be educated, they need to load up the SWG emulator, actually dive into the game and see how the crafting worked.

I really don't think there is one SWG player that would actually say "holy shit SWG crafting and durability sucked!".

 

[Skyewauker]

I could debate some of the statements made regarding number 1 but...

....since the goal for Ember is to more-or-less cover the general ideas expressed in number 2 I'd like to think you should be rather pleased with the planned economic model as it comes to be.

I hope you are right man. Me playing hinges on it. There hasn't really been a true sandbox since SWG. Its the only MMO I will play now.