We should all keep in mind that Ember is being built under the "Shooter first" Mantra. The other features will be extremely important but at this time there is no sign that they are ever meant to become a complete play-style in themselves.
SWG, for example, had some pretty different design goals in mind. We should manage our expectations accordingly.
SWG, for example, had some pretty different design goals in mind. We should manage our expectations accordingly.
Likes:
NitroMidgets
Eh, then why even have anything other than the WoW style crafting?
If I can be a weaponsmith + the best dmg dealer in the game, why even try to have an in depth crafting system.
A real sandbox makes being good at crafting take as long as being good as a damage dealer. I spent weeks , months, and even years scanning / gathering / crafting in SWG. To be the best, you should have to dedicate the time. Not just herp derp away crafting while leveling / skilling up your combat.
Im sorry, but in SWG, the only thing you could really bot / macro to is more materials / leveling in SWG. No bot is going to :
A : scan for resources on multiple land masses / planets.
B : Gather said materials
C : Drop harvesters in the best spots on said material spots
D : Experiement on different combinations to get the highest possible outcome on your stat rolls
E : Get to your merchant and list all your gear / set prices.
Its just not gonna happen.... but put in a secondary crafting system like WoW does. You can bot that all day every day.
If I can be a weaponsmith + the best dmg dealer in the game, why even try to have an in depth crafting system.
A real sandbox makes being good at crafting take as long as being good as a damage dealer. I spent weeks , months, and even years scanning / gathering / crafting in SWG. To be the best, you should have to dedicate the time. Not just herp derp away crafting while leveling / skilling up your combat.
Im sorry, but in SWG, the only thing you could really bot / macro to is more materials / leveling in SWG. No bot is going to :
A : scan for resources on multiple land masses / planets.
B : Gather said materials
C : Drop harvesters in the best spots on said material spots
D : Experiement on different combinations to get the highest possible outcome on your stat rolls
E : Get to your merchant and list all your gear / set prices.
Its just not gonna happen.... but put in a secondary crafting system like WoW does. You can bot that all day every day.
Oh i know. I just use SWG in terms of the things it did better that no other MMO has come close to duplicating in both implementation and quality:
Housing
Crafting
TEF PvP
We have Destiny and The Division. No need to go that route with Ember unless you just want to be like everyone else/
Housing
Crafting
TEF PvP
We have Destiny and The Division. No need to go that route with Ember unless you just want to be like everyone else/
Likes:
Ronyn
Ronyn keeps making rational posts like this and I am going to have to get all creepy stalker on them. Next thing they know, the game is in beta and I am following them around the map from a distance just watching them. Occasionally after a battle I might even run over and light off some fireworks to celebrate for them, just before running off to watch them from behind a rock or tree.
Speaking for myself, I rather enjoy deep customization. So the more a games crafting system allows me to build things to my very particular specifications the more I enjoy it. The happier I am. I never found WOW's crafting system up to that task.
Though I have had a lot of enjoyment out of the weapon buidling in games like loadout and dead space 3. I have also had a lot of enjoyment out of mech games and car games where I was able to tune my machine to my unique specifications.
That in mind I would personally ask for deep crafting/customization system regardless of how it did or did not tie into the games larger economic model.
Though I have had a lot of enjoyment out of the weapon buidling in games like loadout and dead space 3. I have also had a lot of enjoyment out of mech games and car games where I was able to tune my machine to my unique specifications.
That in mind I would personally ask for deep crafting/customization system regardless of how it did or did not tie into the games larger economic model.
DISCLAIMER: That is my HO and this thread opened for active discussion.
Hi, Mark!
1. Durability
Yeah, I know you don't want to make wearing out gear. But I hope you might reconsider.
Since Ember have to incorporate some of sandbox elements, it's pretty essential feature that also makes crafting and crafters very valuable. It should not be hardcore as fk when your rifle is blowing up in your hands after 50 shots fired, but the system I'd love to see is something like that:
- Items have max durability.
- Each repair decreases max durability
- An item considered beyond repair at certain stage (let's say - 5-10% of max durability value).
So you can delay/eliminate gear overstack + make crafting as one of the essential parts of gameplay.
Personally I like crafting, and I like when I know that my work rly matters.
2. Loot
To make crafting even more meaningful it could be great if most of the loot will be obtained as spare parts/crafting ingredients wich should be used in crafting to make any gear your character needs.
So you're traveling in the open world, thumping raw mats, fighting aliens and looting weird devices and techs to make sick guns etc. Feels much more fun than just looting imba lazer from a mutant beast that does not even have hands to hold it
Once again, this makes crafting and crafters valuable and encourages social interactions.
Hi, Mark!
1. Durability
Yeah, I know you don't want to make wearing out gear. But I hope you might reconsider.
Since Ember have to incorporate some of sandbox elements, it's pretty essential feature that also makes crafting and crafters very valuable. It should not be hardcore as fk when your rifle is blowing up in your hands after 50 shots fired, but the system I'd love to see is something like that:
- Items have max durability.
- Each repair decreases max durability
- An item considered beyond repair at certain stage (let's say - 5-10% of max durability value).
So you can delay/eliminate gear overstack + make crafting as one of the essential parts of gameplay.
Personally I like crafting, and I like when I know that my work rly matters.
2. Loot
To make crafting even more meaningful it could be great if most of the loot will be obtained as spare parts/crafting ingredients wich should be used in crafting to make any gear your character needs.
So you're traveling in the open world, thumping raw mats, fighting aliens and looting weird devices and techs to make sick guns etc. Feels much more fun than just looting imba lazer from a mutant beast that does not even have hands to hold it
Once again, this makes crafting and crafters valuable and encourages social interactions.
Some solutions:
-Expensive ammo and batteries: Using high quality weapons would require crafting expensive ammo, and omnisuits would require batteries or reactors to operate at full potential
-Modular items: Some parts of your gear could degrade and need replacement, but the main frame of your suit or your main gun parts can be repaired every time.
-Gear drop on death: losing your gear on death is a fair punishment, most of the time death is result of bad decisions and this punishment is justified, of course the dropped loot should be reclaimable and not just disappear so the player can recover it.
I fully agree with finding parts and not finished weapons, having unique components that can be made in better-than-usual items by a skilled crafter is much more exciting than just giving a flashy new gun to the player
Drops for ammo, health, glider station, equipment station, defensive turrets, barriers, clan buildings, town gates, town defenses, thumpers, beacon for a transport ship to pick you up, thermal generators to cool an area or heat it up depending on the environment, signal flares, basic ground vehicles like our old bikes (small fee just to deploy them) and so on. There were options or should I say are options.
Likes:
Daynen, Luisedgm and Ronyn
As dedicating entire characters to crafting i find that a neat idea, but it ends up forcing the player to have alts for combat, so maybe each character could have different progressions for combat and for crafting at the same time, each with its own decisions and branching options totally independent from the other
But i think crafting need specializations, not every character should be able to make all gun types for example
I think a game that has done crafting REALLY well is Mortal Online, i recommend people to check out their crafting systems
But i think crafting need specializations, not every character should be able to make all gun types for example
I think a game that has done crafting REALLY well is Mortal Online, i recommend people to check out their crafting systems
I'd like to see that, but the only reason I did not mention this option is that Ember not going to be hardcore game. And I'm ok with that. True hardcore sandbox sometime makes more frustration than fun (EVE for example). But on the other hand I don't want it to become another theme park I rly tired of. A proper blend could be just great but that's why I started this thread - we could find out how it could be mixed.
The best resource sink shouldn't be weapons and armor at all but rather planet infrastructure. Building and laying out a base could require massive amounts of resources, more than any one player could easily gather. Combine that with the chance of buildings being destroyed in attacks and you have an ongoing material sink that would at the same time allow the opportunity for team building and player advancement on a global scale.
Destructible gear in a game with vertical progression isn't very fun.
It's probably a good idea for a horizontal type game, typically with FPS you want skill > stats. However that can get a bit dull.
Durability sucked, the items in Firefall didn't meet their demise soon enough. The way you crafted also didn't seem to support the lost of gear, you could theoretically have a piece of gear never to be seen again.
Firefall had too much customization, so losing something hurt way too much. Customization should end at the "Omniframe" loadout, tweaking the AoE of a gun or ammo amount was just tedious. I'd like to see a system where your frame is lost on death and then the loot can be recover by anyone, perhaps through a salvaging profession.
It's probably a good idea for a horizontal type game, typically with FPS you want skill > stats. However that can get a bit dull.
Durability sucked, the items in Firefall didn't meet their demise soon enough. The way you crafted also didn't seem to support the lost of gear, you could theoretically have a piece of gear never to be seen again.
Firefall had too much customization, so losing something hurt way too much. Customization should end at the "Omniframe" loadout, tweaking the AoE of a gun or ammo amount was just tedious. I'd like to see a system where your frame is lost on death and then the loot can be recover by anyone, perhaps through a salvaging profession.
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You would really be amazed at how many people want to do something other than combat. If WoW had dedicated crafters, you would see a lot of people doing it and mainly only it.
Some people hate would rather spend all day crafting and gathering than killing things.
Id like to see it, again done like SWG, where you have X number of skill points and you can spec however you want, with the limits being if you go full crafting you can only go half way combat... basically enough combat to get you by... the same in reverse. Full combat with enough crafting to get you buy survival wise.
Its all a moot point anyways. This game will be Firefall pre 1.0. Its not going to be the game id want it to be anyways.
Some people hate would rather spend all day crafting and gathering than killing things.
Id like to see it, again done like SWG, where you have X number of skill points and you can spec however you want, with the limits being if you go full crafting you can only go half way combat... basically enough combat to get you by... the same in reverse. Full combat with enough crafting to get you buy survival wise.
Its all a moot point anyways. This game will be Firefall pre 1.0. Its not going to be the game id want it to be anyways.
Durability system can be nice, but it shouldn't be too punishing.
This is what I have in mind:
This is what I have in mind:
- Durability decreases as you use your item. So if it lies unused in your inventory, or you took a break from the game, your items shouldn't decay.
- Decayed items shouldn't be entirely worthless. They should either be recycled to get some of the resources back, or the item can be used to produce another copy of itself at a lowered resource price.
- Your character becomes better at crafting specific weapons over time. So if you like that specific weapon, then each time you craft it, your character refines the crafting process even more, so next craft of this same weapon will require less resources.
I hate mechanics that force you to replace a weapon simply because you used it too much.
I hate mechanics where you drop your gear/items on death, because then you wont be getting that gear back unless the open world is minecraft difficulty, where mobs are easy and simple which does not fit for a shooter game.
So that being said...
We are going to be crafting entire bases, and those bases could be attacked by swarms of creatures. A enviroment generator could get destroyed leading to the toxin atmosphere filling in the void and our bases turned into alien monster nests leading to us blasting our way through our own bases trying to reclaim them. Imagine if Warfront had a destructible environment.
I also see no point to there being dedicated crafter classes or dedicated gatherer classes when it looks like the game wont even have classes. Probably should not have classes.
"Crafters" will rise up from their investment in crafting blueprints. "Gatherers" will rise up from their love of battle content. No need for dedicated classes when we are going to be using molecular printers.
What is this, some WoW clone where you need special professions to do anything that does not involve killing mobs?
I hate mechanics where you drop your gear/items on death, because then you wont be getting that gear back unless the open world is minecraft difficulty, where mobs are easy and simple which does not fit for a shooter game.
So that being said...
We are going to be crafting entire bases, and those bases could be attacked by swarms of creatures. A enviroment generator could get destroyed leading to the toxin atmosphere filling in the void and our bases turned into alien monster nests leading to us blasting our way through our own bases trying to reclaim them. Imagine if Warfront had a destructible environment.
I also see no point to there being dedicated crafter classes or dedicated gatherer classes when it looks like the game wont even have classes. Probably should not have classes.
"Crafters" will rise up from their investment in crafting blueprints. "Gatherers" will rise up from their love of battle content. No need for dedicated classes when we are going to be using molecular printers.
What is this, some WoW clone where you need special professions to do anything that does not involve killing mobs?
I've always been against the "siege" type destructible bases. Look at the attached map of Neocron. There are mines, uplinks, fortresses, factories, and labs to fight over. Now building turrets to place in places like this would be great.
To your class point, Id bet money that this game will have classes. You will be "something". You had classes in Firefall. If you do a skill point based system and you skill into the "mammoth frame", you are a mammoth at that point. There are ALWAYS classes in any MMO that has ever came out. You can call them classes, professions, expertise... whatever you like. They still exist just like leveling does.
To your class point, Id bet money that this game will have classes. You will be "something". You had classes in Firefall. If you do a skill point based system and you skill into the "mammoth frame", you are a mammoth at that point. There are ALWAYS classes in any MMO that has ever came out. You can call them classes, professions, expertise... whatever you like. They still exist just like leveling does.
I attached an image of a piece of armor from SWG.
Condition - durability (# drops taking dmg, can be repaired but on repair, max durability goes down, item would eventually be unrepairable). Armor could last a few weeks. Longer if you were careful
Socekts Available - The # of attachments you could put in the gear. They had Armor attachments, weapon attachments, and clothing attachments.
Protection, Effectiveness are pretty much the same thing. Subtle differences.
Vulnerability - Could be weak against certain dmg types.
Encumbrance - pretty much constraints. You had to get buffed to raise your stats to be able to put the full set on.
Slicers could improve the gear's protection, max condition, encumbrances, etc. I also attached an image of an attachment.
Condition - durability (# drops taking dmg, can be repaired but on repair, max durability goes down, item would eventually be unrepairable). Armor could last a few weeks. Longer if you were careful
Socekts Available - The # of attachments you could put in the gear. They had Armor attachments, weapon attachments, and clothing attachments.
Protection, Effectiveness are pretty much the same thing. Subtle differences.
Vulnerability - Could be weak against certain dmg types.
Encumbrance - pretty much constraints. You had to get buffed to raise your stats to be able to put the full set on.
Slicers could improve the gear's protection, max condition, encumbrances, etc. I also attached an image of an attachment.
I feel bad for you guys that are uneducated in terms of what real crafting in an MMO can be like. WoW's crafting is a joke compared to REAL crafting. Firefall tried to rip off SWG's crafting but implemented it piss poor.
Go to 4:35 in the below link
Will kinda show you exactly what a real crafting system looks like and this is just basic things. This doesn't even get into experiementing and making items stronger.
Go to 4:35 in the below link
Will kinda show you exactly what a real crafting system looks like and this is just basic things. This doesn't even get into experiementing and making items stronger.