Yeah ok. Hypothetically turrets could be some thing no one likes in these games. In reality there are tons of people who play turret characters, look for turret characters, look for games with turret characters. That's what I talking about. You're not really going to say turrets don't have a fanbase. We know they do.
"I like thing" still isn't a valid reason to have said thing. If it was, why wouldnt "I don't like thing" hold just as much weight? Do you have stats that suggest it's a major draw for these games? Or could it be that quite a lot of people don't care or don't like turrets, and focus on the rest of the game instead?
Anything that exists for more than one iteration has a fanbase. A fanbase existing does not prove anything about a particular thing. In some dark corner of the internet, the Atari ET game has a fanbase
Beeman responds by suggesting those pesky differences could be solved by taking away weaknesses and adding strengths. True, obvious and pointless to say.
If we make those abilities limited use the different strengths of the loadouts generally remain. So tankhunter was right.
If we make those abilities constant then the weapons become way too similar. Homogenization gone crazy. Boring. That's not the goal.
Interesting strawman you've built. Quite flimsy though
Your statement depends on quite a few assumptions
1. That the game will not have generalist builds
2. More specifically, that you cannot have explosives, a long range weapons, and heals on the same frame loadout (something that has even been possible in class-based games)
3. That somehow I have covered all the bases by adding AOE abilities, or an AOE secondary (equippable in a classless system, I might add) to a sniper with heals
4. That you cannot have meaningful differences without changing categories
Given that you're 0 for 4 there, I'd say you're shit out of luck on your attempted jab
The positive for one guy isn't the same for another. Sometimes the goal is to make a game that works for multiple levels and types of skill.
If you had read my posts, youd know why I think turrets don't work for multiple levels and types of skill. You could address those specifically, but simply restating a position I've been debunking doesn't undo whatever I've said
Some players don't have the shooter skill set required to keep up with other shooter players.
OTHER shooter players. So you accept that Ember is a shooter then?
Turret classes can be a way for that person to contribute to the team anyway.
You know, somehow those of us who came late to the FPS genre and had to develop those skills on our own managed without the game doing the shooting for us. If I recall correctly there was a type of weapon that could do decent damage in... Well I suppose you'd call it affecting a large area
With these large area affecting weapons, newbies and shitters (the latter being a category I have been in in many games, before digging myself out or, in the case of CPM, resigning myself to a lifetime of getting good) could do things like deny movement to particular areas, or hit enemies relatively easily
But I suppose hitting the same city block as your target is too hard for people these days. Maybe we should target health management next with a god mode drone
Sometimes this means the skill ceiling and skill floor aren't so far apart for the turret class. That's for when the class is meant for lower skill players.
Except turrets are at their worst in low end matches. New players are attempting to learn things with a skill curve and are matched up with people who get their damage dealt for them. This can be discouraging even in a PvE environment, where new players will essentially be carried by players with AI-based damage, until such a point that the reverse happens
Sometimes the turret class is made so it has to worry about things like resource management, build times and build order to a degree that would be too much for someone in the middle of twitch aiming.
Please name the game where this is the case. Remember that games like Quake and CS exist, wherein players are expected to spin quite a number of plates. Same goes for your high skill requirement
*Boom, heal pods incoming!*