Traditional RPG system

[Wintersiege]

A game I have seen mentioned in upcoming MMO videos is Crowfall (https://www.crowfall.com/en/) and from what I gathered the game has a world that has a finite timeline and then restarts. Not exactly sure how it all plays out but its nice to see other gaming developers trying to tackle the problems mentioned above in many of the replies here.

 

[Sn0wfIak3]

Where to begin. A purely vertical progression system is based on scaling pretty much only, meaning first you kill a 100HP creature with a 10DMG bullet, later levels you kill a 1000HP creature with 100DMG bullets, rinse repeat. Yeah, i could try to do this indefinitely, i could fool myself into believing this is actual progress. I also could not.

There are alternatives. The perfect "MMO" would be a virtual home, another reality you spend the other time of your life in you don't know what else to do with your life. The power fantasy works in single player games because it's a single player game. You're playing it alone, it is a fantasy in its purest form.

When you introduce other players, you start moving away from this fantasy and closer to a reality.

Similar to how in your mind you have the perfect answer for all the problems of the world until you take into account that there's other people living there. The key aspect here is that the prefect MMO is an ecosystem. Not everyone is a top predator. Nor should they try to be.

Different strokes for different folks. It is not a single player experience. I've seen this been ignored so much on the FF forums, i had to bite my tongue until it bleeds. "I want to craft until my hands fall off, but i don't like item decay".

It doesn't work that way. It's the same difference.

"I want vertical progression but i don't want the player base to only care about progression".

It doesn't work that way.

 

[Krhys]

I enjoy the traditional RPG system. Fight more enemies, get XP, rank up, get stronger.

Whoever invented the traditional RPG system and especially XP should be taken out and flogged to death.

 

[NoahDVS]

Whoever invented the traditional RPG system and especially XP should be taken out and flogged to death.

Let's not get all ISIS up in here. It's been used in the wrong way too many times, especially in online games, but Pokemon and Final Fantasy were fun.

 

[HighCaliber]

"I want to craft until my hands fall off, but i don't like item decay".

It doesn't work that way.

That's kind of a confused thing to say. That's not even really what most people said. Most of the people who wanted to craft until their hands fell off were the ones who were ok with item decay. Most of the people who didn't like item decay weren't really that into crafting.

Anyway, you can have infinite crafting as long as their are some items that leave the system at a high rate. It doesn't have to be item decay in particular. So it's not weird to want to want infinite and crafting and still dislike item decay specifically.

It's the same difference.

"I want vertical progression but i don't want the player base to only care about progression".

It doesn't work that way.

Let's fix the starting line on this too. There are at least two types of vertical progression. The reality of it and the illusion of it.
What you described is the illusion of it. You get stronger proportionally to the enemies so the interaction stays static.
But real vertical progression is something that directly alters the interaction. Flying higher, running faster, quicker cooldowns. Those things actually change the way the game plays.

Anyway, why do you think that if their is vertical progression that is all the player will care about?
Isn't it possible that there could be other things that become interesting in the same game?
I think the real problem is that most games with vertical progression don't offer much else meaningful to care about anyway.

 

[Sn0wfIak3]

Let's fix the starting line on this too. There are at least two types of vertical progression. The reality of it and the illusion of it.
What you described is the illusion of it. You get stronger proportionally to the enemies so the interaction stays static.
But real vertical progression is something that directly alters the interaction. Flying higher, running faster, quicker cooldowns. Those things actually change the way the game plays.

Completely agree, this is indeed why i do support diagonal progression. As an Assault player i understood pretty well the difference between a low level Assault and a high level. But a low level Assault could still take me out on my worst day as my ability to pilot my frame still played a role.

I could hand my character to a newb but it would get its ass kicked by a skilled low level player. However, the potential of the frame was insane. This while vertical scaling only offers god mode and nothing else.

 

[Daynen]

Whoever invented the traditional RPG system and especially XP should be taken out and flogged to death.

Now now, let's be mindful of something: without that system, a major chunk of the games we enjoy today wouldn't exist and we wouldn't have had the chance to learn from them.

 

[Alfonso]

There are lots of online games with vertical progression. Not all of them are great but that is enough proof that vertical progression works on online games.
I think people who don't like vertical progression want different style of games. Not everyone likes FF series, you know.

 

[Vladplaya]

There are lots of online games with vertical progression. Not all of them are great but that is enough proof that vertical progression works on online games.
I think people who don't like vertical progression want different style of games. Not everyone likes FF series, you know.

I don't think the argument is whether vertical progression works or not, but rather how well it works, where and why. It certainly can work pretty well in single player for many reasons, but then it has a lot of negative effects in mmos. However most of those negative effects (like power creep, and content obsolescence) can be ignored because it is so easy to "fake" progression and new content/experience by simply increasing numbers and reusing assets.
Bottom line is that its cheap and gets the job done, and that's like the main reason why stuff takes off in any industry.

 

[DARKB1KE]

Whoever invented the traditional RPG system and especially XP should be taken out and flogged to death.

Ahhh lovely.

*Steve Irwin voice*
Awwwwe crickey mate! A wild gamer specimen has appeared in its natural habitat. Stay clear, no sudden movements now. Avoid eye contact.

 

[Krhys]

Ahhh lovely.

*Steve Irwin voice*
Awwwwe crickey mate! A wild gamer specimen has appeared in its natural habitat. Stay clear, no sudden movements now. Avoid eye contact.

Too funny!