Not exactly a complaint...

#21
Of course there are no guarantees man. We're all adults. We want to try and make Em8er happen so we invest some money knowing it might not pan out. We're all aware of the possibility of failure. You got burned with Firefall so it's understandable that you're weary of this kinda stuff. Who knows what the odds of getting this game off the ground are, probably still better than crypto at least lmao
 

PopinFRESH

New Member
Feb 18, 2017
4
2
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#22
Same can be said about firefall actually. Still we were ignored when ANY decision was made concerning the game or the tech tree and RNG resources/crafting would not have vanished BEFORE the major fiasco's happened!

So was firefall initially. In fact when I started supporting firefall it was through postal money orders.

THIS!!!!
I am fully aware that the point of making games is no longer art. It is now entirely commercialized. ( frankly this has ruined gaming in so many ways)
So maybe you should consider treating early supporters as the legal entities they truly are... INVESTORS!!!!! Without myself and hundreds of other early investors. firefall would never have attracted the TRIAD investors that Mark was (deleted bitterness) to get conned by. But what did we get for it in the end?
IGNORED!!!

The things we LIKED about the game were removed one at a time. The things we were promised for our early support were,
1) completely removed.
2) replaced with useless garbage.
3) suddenly available to NON-founders


Now THAT is a scary statement. Are you referring to technology wise or marketability wise? If it is technology wise then frankly modern programming and DB technology has vastly improved so the database issues of pre-fireFAIL should be easily (relatively speaking of course) be resolved.
If it is marketability wise then I am forced to point out that if you go over the login numbers you will realize that for the first couple years there was only growth UNTIL arbitrary decisions were made DESPITE community input. Essentially the game started going downhill slowly from the time the tech tree was removed. Sure, it would have major new user spikes every few months around year 4-5 onwards but they WERE NOT STAYING. Out of hundreds of people that got interested in Firefall on my recommendation, in the end NONE of them stayed after the rng resource spawn system and tech tree were removed.


I have been keeping watch. Frankly I am severely disappointed. Apparently so much time/effort is being spent on graphics and visuals but very little obvious work done on gameplay.
Instead of arguing about whether or not to make more exaggerated "cow" type female skins, simply add a character creator so people can customize their own char based on a limited number of choices... say 5 base body types 5 base chest sizes etc. etc.
If people want Cows with D, E or F tits let them use VISUAL MODS.
Want your character to have a huge bulge between his legs? download a mod.
Want all characters to be naked on your screen? download a mod. There is no reason at all to make those things part of the core game.

That crap is far too soon to bother with at this point anyways. This is the time that Core ENGINE, Interaction, Stress testing should be the focus. Firefall did great at slowly building a fan base (and collecting the annoying scum known as "fanbois") until someone suddenly got desperate for money. Thus fireFAIL was born.

Want to know what is truly hilarious?
I discovered Firefall because some kid working in a shopping mall in Ottawa, Ontario , Canada was scamming people into buying Firefall Installation cd's... ( Unlike most people I could tell the difference between a printed CD and a burned copy) When I got home, I searched for it online to see if it really existed. Thus my interest and support was generated
I have to agree with Mad. As someone who was on FireFall from the second playtest until they broke the Steam integration and never bothered to fix it before shutting down the servers completely, I am also largely unimpressed with where Em-8ER is at and what the balance of priorities are. The original FireFall playtest was on a red & white checkered floor and the only thing that mattered was the feel of the gameplay. The early days of FireFall it was gameplay that trumped everything. It didn't matter playing on a simple greybox'd "level", the movement and gunplay felt great and it was a great PVP arena-like experience.

Where I disagree with Mad is when FIreFall died. In my opinion FireFall died while Mark was still calling the shots when they killed progression; which then led to the eventual killing of the crafting system. Jazzhands didn't ruin the game, it was already in a flaming ball falling to earth like the Arclight.

I've been watching Em-8ER since the original poll, going on 6+ years now. Still not impressed, still won't give Mark another dime until there is a fully functional finished game. I wish I could be more hopeful as FireFall was one of my all time favorite games with more than 7000 hours in it between the direct download and the Steam versions. I just don't have any confidence that Mark can lead this to fruition.

P.S. Also concur that FireFall was not community/crowd funded originally and it wasn't until the bean shop was added that community funding really started. There were a few small donation drives before then but they were tiny in comparison and pretty much surrounded the PAX events.
 
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Pandagnome

Kaiju Slayer
Happy Kaiju
Jul 27, 2016
5,946
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#23
As someone who was on FireFall from the second playtest until they broke the Steam integration and never bothered to fix it before shutting down the servers completely,
With more control of the game & community support i am sure this wont happen this time!

The original FireFall playtest was on a red & white checkered floor and the only thing that mattered was the feel of the gameplay. The early days of FireFall it was gameplay that trumped everything.
Never was into checkered floors always reminded me of chess blaaa!
Gameplay is still a focus i am sure of that, we get to play the demos and provide our feedback so yes i think Em8er will be even better than firefall in time.

I just don't have any confidence that Mark can lead this to fruition.
Not to worry the action will speak for itself, many of us have been waiting and i cannot wait to see it all gel together.


1625224439210.jpeg
 
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Rawgi

Deepstriker
Sep 9, 2016
105
193
43
CA,USA
#24
I have noticed that everytime a negative post is out there maybe pointing at revealing the real story, someone tries to derail that discussion and redirect the conversation to another topic. All kinds of excuses, but nothing concrete. I was hoping to see this put to rest, but will have to give up as it is not to be, that is obvious. It is not bad to admit failure or mistakes as we are all only human. Seems these days it is better to pretend it never happened and sweep under the carpet, than to learn from it and move forward with the knowledge so one doesn't make the same mistake again.
 
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Pandagnome

Kaiju Slayer
Happy Kaiju
Jul 27, 2016
5,946
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#26
I have noticed that everytime a negative post is out there maybe pointing at revealing the real story, someone tries to derail that discussion and redirect the conversation to another topic. All kinds of excuses, but nothing concrete. I was hoping to see this put to rest, but will have to give up as it is not to be, that is obvious. It is not bad to admit failure or mistakes as we are all only human. Seems these days it is better to pretend it never happened and sweep under the carpet, than to learn from it and move forward with the knowledge so one doesn't make the same mistake again.
Doubt that we will ever know the entire truth because of the NDA agreement.

Have you also considered contacting the9 and have they answered?


Thanks again Pandagnome for redirecting
no no ............
1625872221462.gif
 
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liandri

Omni Ace
Omni Ace
Jul 29, 2016
265
689
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Zone of Bones, Australia
www.youtube.com
#27
I have noticed that everytime a negative post is out there maybe pointing at revealing the real story, someone tries to derail that discussion and redirect the conversation to another topic.
Noticed this too on occasion.

Mark has already told his version of events time and time again. The Reddit posts are still up. You can find any related Twitter posts in the Wayback Machine. He did interviews where he covered what happened.
On the other side are the Reddit posts, this news article that's pretty interesting, which reminds everyone that he did have another studio with some decent funding that fizzled and died without achieving seemingly anything.
If you're expecting a clear and concise history of what happened, good luck, because it doesn't sound like any of the ex-staff want to get together publicly and write a book about it. Mark had mentioned in an interview or two that he couldn't get into some aspects of Red5 due to an NDA. No confirmation on if everyone else is bound by an NDA, but it's more likely than not.

For now, Firefall fell victim to mismanagement, and a remarkable amount of it. You're here because you wanted Firefall. Mark said he could do it. Some of us still think he can, with varying levels of confidence. If you want alternatives, and nothing exists like Firefall that is any good, the only other in progress projects are:
- TheMeldingWars (creators of Arcporter), currently still being worked on, nothing playable
- Abyssall (Project A), who plan to have their first play test demo out "soon"

Don't like the progress? Too slow? It sucks? Keep your money in your wallet. $120,000 from M3, $??? from Newcomer packs and the Monthly Patron pulled in around $10,000 last month based on sub count... Should damn well get it to the playable mock-up. You're a Deepstriker? Just wait for the final mock-up at the Kickstarter.
 
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Rawgi

Deepstriker
Sep 9, 2016
105
193
43
CA,USA
#28
I don't think myself or anyone will ever know the whole story and you are right, It doesn't reallyu matter anymore. I just threw it out there to see how much napalm or some kind of flame would be thrown to make sure it dies and stays that way. We have much more to worry about with the " raising prices because everybody else is doing that".. Tells me alot about Em8er. I didn't read we have to because costs are up, it said because the Secretary said we will experience a "rise in inflation soon ", like $15.00 an hour minimum wage isn't going to be enough. People forget someone has to pay that wage and they have to get the money somewhere. A big vicious circle that never ends in your favor. Everyone loses and sure your paycheck is bigger , but your cost of living just went up too usually more than the raise you just got. So now we all go backward a few steps and our money buys less than it did before. Yea but we got that good minimum wage up. If anyone has a better explanation, I would really like to hear it. And sending an email informing us that they are going to raise prices just because everyone else is, not what we expect from the company we have all invested in. I'll see you in the lake or the cliff we are supposed to jump off with everyone else.
 

Pandagnome

Kaiju Slayer
Happy Kaiju
Jul 27, 2016
5,946
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#29
I don't think myself or anyone will ever know the whole story and you are right, It doesn't reallyu matter anymore. I just threw it out there to see how much napalm or some kind of flame would be thrown to make sure it dies and stays that way. We have much more to worry about with the " raising prices because everybody else is doing that".. Tells me alot about Em8er. I didn't read we have to because costs are up, it said because the Secretary said we will experience a "rise in inflation soon ", like $15.00 an hour minimum wage isn't going to be enough. People forget someone has to pay that wage and they have to get the money somewhere. A big vicious circle that never ends in your favor. Everyone loses and sure your paycheck is bigger , but your cost of living just went up too usually more than the raise you just got. So now we all go backward a few steps and our money buys less than it did before. Yea but we got that good minimum wage up. If anyone has a better explanation, I would really like to hear it. And sending an email informing us that they are going to raise prices just because everyone else is, not what we expect from the company we have all invested in. I'll see you in the lake or the cliff we are supposed to jump off with everyone else.
Personally that past is done the blame game can go on forever it is what is is now for the next part.

Understand with the pay i have a small part time job it gets me going and have to sacrifice a lot so my priories have changed as an example

I had to stop or reduce:
- Gym subscription,
- Tv subscription, cinema
- Motor vehicle
- Vacations abroad
- Selective food/drink shopping

Alternative i have done are:

- Exercise at home / Playing sports in park etc
- Internet and selective shows
- Bicycle and walking
- Lazy pyjama days, short day trips to other areas
- Comparing stores/shops including sale for best price on the same/similar product


Ah i see the news letter got this too and these points stood out to me:

Today, US Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen warned of several months of rapid inflation ahead in the US economy, confirming what we have already been experiencing in cost increases.

What does this have to do with gaming? Unfortunately these factors will affect all aspects of the economy. We expect to see prices increases in the future and expect to have to adjust prices ourselves to reflect this in the coming months.

As previously promised, we will lock subscription rates to the current price until after Kickstarter. Anyone who is an active subscriber at the time the new subscription tiers are introduced will be grandfathered and can lock in the current low price for peerless skins

We do expect to have to raise prices on newcomer packs and any upgrades in the coming months. We do not want to do this, but since the entire economy is likely to experience increased costs, we don't have much choice. While we don't have a timeline for this, we will hold off as long as we can. Much depends on what happens globally in the near future.

For now, prices remain the same. We want to thank you for your support and to provide you with upfront candidness about what is likely to come, well in advance, so as to not have it catch anyone by surprise.

Our next demo will be in several weeks as we pivot from the Thumper encounter to the whitebox level design of Home, the Gatestrider station in orbit around Em-8ER! See you there!


From what i understand nothing has changed yet, however because of the uncertain situation that may happen. We should remain aware that if these changes occurs we would be given enough time for when the price do change.

Then there is the question of how much is the price going up, that would depend on what is going on in the economy and the team's goals?

The newcomer pack and any upgrades are what will be effected so i am assuming this includes
Those also who already have an M3 pack or win an M3 pack from raffles and want to upgrade to a higher M3 pack too.

The Subscription as a Monthly Patron could be affected but that would be until after kickstarter so since we have the opportunity to be grandfathered in price.

Grandfather pricing gives the opportunity for those to continue paying the same price for the subscription even after new change in pricing.

I also recall that after we are grandfathered you could stop and start subscription and the Grandfather pricing will remain locked to that price.


So since it all depends on the situation for now we shouldn't worry but keep it in mind, this still gives people time to look into the packs before such changes could take affect.

I am eagerly looking forward to the new Demo in several weeks time!
 

Mahdi

Firstclaimer
Jul 26, 2016
835
1,888
93
Montana, US
#30
An example of inflation here in the states is housing has gone up 30%, groceries 2.2% etc. Costs of running businesses, no matter what, is harder. Server and cloud costs are some things I can think of. I do share a concern about this regardless of those examples. This kind of a project is a very friendly work from home arrangement. I want to look behind the scenes on things that we may not know. The staff of volunteers and those who do get paid for example. Businesses here have done a lot of willing pay raises before the federal side of thing even gets into a minimum wage. Is there more with the team than we know? If so, I'm an optimistic individual with how the kickstarter feels very much around the corner. Is there a wage approach for a dedicated dev team waiting in the wings with the kickstarter? I still see some people waving red flags, but as I've stated, I believe in Grummz to run a successful business with Em-8ER. Anyways, out of time to add more right now.

Sigh
Work work