Not exactly a complaint...

Mad

Commander
Jul 27, 2016
9
14
3
#1
but after dumping upwards of 2000$ into supporting firefall's alpha and beta development, only to have the game replaced with generic plugin's on release and then shut down less then a year later, what guarantee's do we have that this will not be a repeat?
 

Pandagnome

Kaiju Slayer
Happy Kaiju
Jul 27, 2016
5,316
7,212
113
Island of Tofu
#2
what guarantee's do we have that this will not be a repeat?
Could check the chief chat when it happens and see what is going on and ask questions directly to the dev and others for further answers.

Personally i am trusting them because they are working steadily and keep adding updated demos and other content.

Already see you are supporting Em8er it is good you are here with so many who have played in firefall and those who have not too can bring much to the table.

Sadly none of us can predict the future, we can only do our best and support and play our part.
I hope you will be part of this when the game comes to life for all.
 

Ronyn

Commander
Staff member
Community Manager
Jul 26, 2016
635
2,263
93
#3
@Mad
What is the guarantee that what happened to firefall wont happen with Em-8er?
The first reason is.....YOU!
Well, everyone really. This community.
You see Em-8er is community funded. That means we are able to build this game, step by step, due to the continuous contributions of this community. That means there is no outside corporate investor that is in a position to come in and push the game in different direction. That was the biggest reason firefall went off the rails in the way that it did.

The second reason is the laser focus we have on delivering the core gameplay experience. We have learned from hindsight what did and didnt work in firefall, so this time we can devote our entire selves to what works.

Ultimately I'd say that if you're not convinced that is totally ok.
Just keep watch on us and see how the game develops.
Some cool stuff has happened, more cool stuff is on the way!
 

Mad

Commander
Jul 27, 2016
9
14
3
#4
@Mad
What is the guarantee that what happened to firefall wont happen with Em-8er?
The first reason is.....YOU!!
Well, everyone really. This community.
...
Same can be said about firefall actually. Still we were ignored when ANY decision was made concerning the game or the tech tree and RNG resources/crafting would not have vanished BEFORE the major fiasco's happened!
...You see Em-8er is community funded. ...
So was firefall initially. In fact when I started supporting firefall it was through postal money orders.
...That means we are able to build this game, step by step, due to the continuous contributions of this community. That means there is no outside corporate investor that is in a position to come in and push the game in different direction. ...
THIS!!!!
I am fully aware that the point of making games is no longer art. It is now entirely commercialized. ( frankly this has ruined gaming in so many ways)
So maybe you should consider treating early supporters as the legal entities they truly are... INVESTORS!!!!! Without myself and hundreds of other early investors. firefall would never have attracted the TRIAD investors that Mark was (deleted bitterness) to get conned by. But what did we get for it in the end?
IGNORED!!!

The things we LIKED about the game were removed one at a time. The things we were promised for our early support were,
1) completely removed.
2) replaced with useless garbage.
3) suddenly available to NON-founders

...
That was the biggest reason firefall went off the rails in the way that it did.
The second reason is the laser focus we have on delivering the core gameplay experience. We have learned from hindsight what did and didn't work in firefall, so this time we can devote our entire selves to what works.
...
Now THAT is a scary statement. Are you referring to technology wise or marketability wise? If it is technology wise then frankly modern programming and DB technology has vastly improved so the database issues of pre-fireFAIL should be easily (relatively speaking of course) be resolved.
If it is marketability wise then I am forced to point out that if you go over the login numbers you will realize that for the first couple years there was only growth UNTIL arbitrary decisions were made DESPITE community input. Essentially the game started going downhill slowly from the time the tech tree was removed. Sure, it would have major new user spikes every few months around year 4-5 onwards but they WERE NOT STAYING. Out of hundreds of people that got interested in Firefall on my recommendation, in the end NONE of them stayed after the rng resource spawn system and tech tree were removed.
...
Ultimately I'd say that if you're not convinced that is totally ok.
Just keep watch on us and see how the game develops.
Some cool stuff has happened, more cool stuff is on the way!
I have been keeping watch. Frankly I am severely disappointed. Apparently so much time/effort is being spent on graphics and visuals but very little obvious work done on gameplay.
Instead of arguing about whether or not to make more exaggerated "cow" type female skins, simply add a character creator so people can customize their own char based on a limited number of choices... say 5 base body types 5 base chest sizes etc. etc.
If people want Cows with D, E or F tits let them use VISUAL MODS.
Want your character to have a huge bulge between his legs? download a mod.
Want all characters to be naked on your screen? download a mod. There is no reason at all to make those things part of the core game.

That crap is far too soon to bother with at this point anyways. This is the time that Core ENGINE, Interaction, Stress testing should be the focus. Firefall did great at slowly building a fan base (and collecting the annoying scum known as "fanbois") until someone suddenly got desperate for money. Thus fireFAIL was born.

Want to know what is truly hilarious?
I discovered Firefall because some kid working in a shopping mall in Ottawa, Ontario , Canada was scamming people into buying Firefall Installation cd's... ( Unlike most people I could tell the difference between a printed CD and a burned copy) When I got home, I searched for it online to see if it really existed. Thus my interest and support was generated
 

Ronyn

Commander
Staff member
Community Manager
Jul 26, 2016
635
2,263
93
#6
Same can be said about firefall actually. ......
This information is in parts incorrect, in parts confused, and in parts a matter of opinion.
Let me clarify some of it.

One thing to be clear on: Firefall was NOT a community funded game, Em-8er is.

Firefall was funded through traditional sources. Millions of dollars were put into firefalls development, for several years before it was announced to the public. While firefall did open up a way for people to buy founder packs, and a fair amount of money was made through it, that was not where the funding of the game came from. Moreover, the money that came from traditional sources came with a lot of pressure at the corporate level. Due to the nature of such arrangements, a certain amount of decisions are made at that corporate level, out of the hands of the developers and community. To restate what i said before: The fact that so many decisions were out of the hands of the developers and community is the biggest reason firefall went off the rails.

In the case of Em-8er, it has received all of it's funding from the community. From indiegogo, new comer packs, and monthly subs. There is no corporate pressure on the devs making Em-8er, meaning there is no other voice beside the devs and the community to answer to. While it would be disingenuous to directly compare thousands of people in a community to a small board of investors, we do indeed take the concerns of the community in a similar way. If the community was not happy with what we offered for our Indiegogo campaigns, they would not have been successful let alone gone so far above and beyond what we asked for. If the community is not happy with what we are doing, we loose subs, drop in funding, and so on. I cannot stress this enough, this is not remotely the same thing as firefalls funding model.

I will also add that the community is run somewhat differently now, as I have my own specific ways of collecting user data and community requests. This is a new ballgame.

To speak to the nature of Em-8ers development, the art verses resources, etc.
There are a great many reasons why the strategy has been how it is. In part it's a matter of balancing work on things that will keep the games funding rolling in along with work on things that will get the game further along in development. make no mistake, there has to be a balance or the game could not be developed, because without funding there is no one to work on it.

Firefall lost it's way in this balance, though not where you might think it did. That is a long story though, and not nearly as obvious from the outside as some may claim.

Now...How well we have balanced all of this for Em-8er is a matter of opinion. You are welcome to yours. Either way we can't say how effective it is just yet, as we can't call a game at half time.

Either way stick around to watch and see what we do, or don't.
Much will be shown in the coming months. Only the future will reveal if what we are doing is the right way to go.
 

Myst

Archon
Ark Liege
Greeter
Aug 19, 2016
33
163
33
26
#7
This information is in parts incorrect, in parts confused, and in parts a matter of opinion.
Let me clarify some of it.

One thing to be clear on: Firefall was NOT a community funded game, Em-8er is.

Firefall was funded through traditional sources. Millions of dollars were put into firefalls development, for several years before it was announced to the public. While firefall did open up a way for people to buy founder packs, and a fair amount of money was made through it, that was not where the funding of the game came from. Moreover, the money that came from traditional sources came with a lot of pressure at the corporate level. Due to the nature of such arrangements, a certain amount of decisions are made at that corporate level, out of the hands of the developers and community. To restate what i said before: The fact that so many decisions were out of the hands of the developers and community is the biggest reason firefall went off the rails.

In the case of Em-8er, it has received all of it's funding from the community. From indiegogo, new comer packs, and monthly subs. There is no corporate pressure on the devs making Em-8er, meaning there is no other voice beside the devs and the community to answer to. While it would be disingenuous to directly compare thousands of people in a community to a small board of investors, we do indeed take the concerns of the community in a similar way. If the community was not happy with what we offered for our Indiegogo campaigns, they would not have been successful let alone gone so far above and beyond what we asked for. If the community is not happy with what we are doing, we loose subs, drop in funding, and so on. I cannot stress this enough, this is not remotely the same thing as firefalls funding model.

I will also add that the community is run somewhat differently now, as I have my own specific ways of collecting user data and community requests. This is a new ballgame.

To speak to the nature of Em-8ers development, the art verses resources, etc.
There are a great many reasons why the strategy has been how it is. In part it's a matter of balancing work on things that will keep the games funding rolling in along with work on things that will get the game further along in development. make no mistake, there has to be a balance or the game could not be developed, because without funding there is no one to work on it.

Firefall lost it's way in this balance, though not where you might think it did. That is a long story though, and not nearly as obvious from the outside as some may claim.

Now...How well we have balanced all of this for Em-8er is a matter of opinion. You are welcome to yours. Either way we can't say how effective it is just yet, as we can't call a game at half time.

Either way stick around to watch and see what we do, or don't.
Much will be shown in the coming months. Only the future will reveal if what we are doing is the right way to go.
Well spoken, as always.
 
Mar 11, 2017
19
64
13
27
#8
also founder exclusives were never reintroduced to the game I always had my exclusive founder bike and tiki thumpers, tiki masks, and other founder items but they were never made available to anyone else in Firefall again
 

Pandagnome

Kaiju Slayer
Happy Kaiju
Jul 27, 2016
5,316
7,212
113
Island of Tofu
#9
I discovered Firefall because some kid working in a shopping mall in Ottawa, Ontario , Canada was scamming people into buying Firefall Installation cd's... ( Unlike most people I could tell the difference between a printed CD and a burned copy) When I got home, I searched for it online to see if it really existed. Thus my interest and support was generated
Least the kid wasn't selling drugs called red beans :eek:

This is interesting especially in these times, with all this covid protocols etc etc
I am sure it will be easier to spread the word this time round regarding Em8er.

As for physical installation could have a way to just click a button and burn it to dvd and tada
your copy and take it with you to play somewhere i guess and keep it somewhere safe.

There are still games stores around not as many and some near the malls.
Maybe the community members could play their part and ask to put up posters near the mall/games stores where ever they live.

A new poster that everyone can print off with some info could be really good i know about 2 or 3 game stores near my area.

Also think a nicely made poster just for ourselves like the Arclight poster to keep in our rooms or wherever.

1611760008658.jpeg
Arclight!