Melee combat

Torgue_Joey

Kaiju Slayer
KAIJU 'SPLODER
Jul 27, 2016
1,123
2,697
113
Germany
#81
To make it understandable, that middle segment is the Emitter, otherwise it would just be more like a lightsaber, kinda don't want that. Though I could change the emitter design. but something long that design would be nice for Melee combat, cause I think I'm on of the few that actually remember there's melee attack in more games.
sound reasonable. in case it fails to emit the blade. STAB IT IN THE EYES. OR USE IT AS A BATTER.
 
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Grummz

$6k package
Community Manager
Ember Dev
Jul 25, 2016
759
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#85
I think melee will be possible with the way we are doing our new server architecture.

Normally, in an MMO type server, melee is very restrictive due to lag, and MMO style,slow server ticks (MMO servers only update on a slow tick rate. WoW was up to 5 seconds per tick for some types of events.)

Overwatch, a shooter and non-MMO style server, had a tick of 21, which was increased to 60+ after users complained and they found a way for high bandwidth PCs and low bandwidth PCs handle different rates of data updates.

Firefall was an unusual case. Not only did it have a slow tick rate like MMOs, it also used CS (Counterstrike) style lag compensation. This meant that everything you saw (monsters, other players), was slightly in the past by up to (I forget the exact number) 350ms. This made melee impossible to feel good. It also made it hard for things like monster to pause or stagger if you shot them. This made NPC combat feel terrible.

Em-8ER will feature a brand new server architecture. We won't discuss the secret sauce because we don't know if our experiments will work yet. We're going to be doing a lot of trial and error. But the goal is to allow for very, very responsive shooting, NPC reactions and yes, melee attacks.

The Thumper is meant to go hand to hand with Kaiju. Tsi-hu, in beast mode, are meant to melee your Omniframe. We're going to be trying our best to make it feel great.
 
Oct 3, 2016
21
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#86
Could I suggest a Shield like melee weapon?

Yes call me the nut but I do think Spiked shields (Like rounded til you go for a strike where you bash a now spiked shield into the foe,spikes come out as you bash causing more force on a lesser area )

So it helps teammates ,along with a tank play style but hurts non the less (so a Mix between Heavy melee,light melee and a tank's style ,With a FOR SPARTA vibe)

and if we add smaller arms it could be something like (so you can SLIGHTLY defend yourself against ranged ,but you sariface the defence of near full body)

example
http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net...each-p2.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130329225530
 
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Omnires

Forerunner
Aug 14, 2016
724
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#87


High school students can come up with some crazy and cute inventions. In Ookamisan, one of such inventions are the neko neko knuckles. They are essentially boxing gloves shaped like cat heads and electrified.

I'd like those cute boxing gloves just for the T.H.M.P.R. :D
I remember that anime. Doesn't those gloves also make a cute meowing sound when they hit someone too? I can't remember been a long time since I seen it last. Also, the 3 main characters are based on Little Red Riding Hood, that girl is the wolf.

Anyway.
[T]he
[H]uman
[M]echanical
[P]lanetary
[R]eorganizer

Can kill enemies by drilling their faces off.
 

Torgue_Joey

Kaiju Slayer
KAIJU 'SPLODER
Jul 27, 2016
1,123
2,697
113
Germany
#88
I remember that anime. Doesn't those gloves also make a cute meowing sound when they hit someone too? I can't remember been a long time since I seen it last. Also, the 3 main characters are based on Little Red Riding Hood, that girl is the wolf.

Anyway.
[T]he
[H]uman
[M]echanical
[P]lanetary
[R]eorganizer

Can kill enemies by drilling their faces off.
Uuuuuuum, THE LAST PART IS IN THE WRONG THREAD :p
 
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Grummz

$6k package
Community Manager
Ember Dev
Jul 25, 2016
759
6,419
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#89
I like the idea of shields. We'll try one. No guarantees it will survive gameplay iteration if it doesn't work out. But definitely interested.

Could I suggest a Shield like melee weapon?

Yes call me the nut but I do think Spiked shields (Like rounded til you go for a strike where you bash a now spiked shield into the foe,spikes come out as you bash causing more force on a lesser area )

So it helps teammates ,along with a tank play style but hurts non the less (so a Mix between Heavy melee,light melee and a tank's style ,With a FOR SPARTA vibe)

and if we add smaller arms it could be something like (so you can SLIGHTLY defend yourself against ranged ,but you sariface the defence of near full body)

example
http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net...each-p2.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130329225530
 
#90
Personally MattHunX, I prefer your first design, which I made a rough 3D rendering. The double emitting energy blade is actually something I don't see a lot of.
Fuck, I didn't get a notification for my name being mentioned and I totally missed the post, I'm sorry!

Totally love your 3D-rendering! Thank you so much! :)

I simply put up different iteration for different sword-types, but yeah, pretty much satisfied with just an energy-blade like the above, in different colors!
 
#91
Again. As a person who never blocks while in a fight (I'm a fire style melee fighter,) my only defence is to dodge and/or use counterattacks.
BTW

I'm that way, too. Never use the kind of shields that require me to actively block, one I'd have to hold up. Nope. My combat-style is always the same. Agility and speed. Dodge, slice and dice.
 

Omnires

Forerunner
Aug 14, 2016
724
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#92
I like the idea of shields. We'll try one. No guarantees it will survive gameplay iteration if it doesn't work out. But definitely interested.
Shields are good for the people who like to block and absorb damage. Just remember that some people, myself included, don't like to block and absorb damage. Earth and water style fighters like to block and absorb damage, when you hit a rock or water they resist that force by pushing back and trying to spread it out over a larger area to absorb it. But we fire and air style fighters like to dodge and counterattack, when you try to hit the air or fire they just move out of the away and in the case of fire it always counterattacks by trying to burn you.

A counterattack allows you to turn your opponent's strength against them as you reflect the energy of the attack back to the attacker in some way. The stronger your enemy's attack, the stronger your counterattack becomes. One of the best examples of counterattacks that I think of off the top of my head are from Nanatsu No Taizai (The Seven Deadly Sins).

Full Counter
Full Counter enables its user to reflect attacks aimed at him back at the enemy, but with more than double the power; therefore, the stronger the opponent's powers are, the stronger the user's power becomes. However, there are also many drawbacks to Full Counter: the user cannot initiate any attacks themselves, and they would not be able to reflect attacks if the opponent does not allow them to read the nature and timing of their attacks.

Revenge Counter

Revenge Counter is a variant of Full Counter where the user allows themselves to take damage. After the user has taken enough damage, he charges his weapon with power that he absorbed from the attacks and strikes his enemy with it. This is considered to be an ultimate attack and has an average survival rate of 0.2%.
 

Omnires

Forerunner
Aug 14, 2016
724
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#93
BTW

I'm that way, too. Never use the kind of shields that require me to actively block, one I'd have to hold up. Nope. My combat-style is always the same. Agility and speed. Dodge, slice and dice.
The way I like to fight in games is the same way I like to fight in real life. When I was growing up one of my first martial arts teachers drilled "They can't hurt what they can't hit into my head." it is part of the reason why I'm also good at playing stealth characters. lol
 
Oct 3, 2016
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#94
BTW

I'm that way, too. Never use the kind of shields that require me to actively block, one I'd have to hold up. Nope. My combat-style is always the same. Agility and speed. Dodge, slice and dice.
1. who said you were forced to use one with melee

2. We could have different types of shields (check Heavy Ideas thread ,Fire may love if that gun was transformed into a melee)

When I say shields I mean you can use them to Block damage either passively ,or have a method like counterattack (In a sense a parry ,parry at right time and it stuns the enemy ,but you don't passively block anymore) ,While either being a shield like those in Heavy ideas thread
 
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TankHunter678

Well-Known Member
Jul 26, 2016
369
309
63
#95
Technically a small/medium shield can be designed to function like an extended backplate of a gauntlet. Using the edge of the shield to enhance a punch.

Think of the Uruk-hai shields in Lord of the Rings. Sufficient for blocking an attack, and could be used as a weapon themselves in a punch.

Not every shield needs to be a kite or tower shield. Even then those can be used as part of a shoulder tackle or backhand "slap".

The shield itself could also be used as a weapon mount. A good example being the Gouf Custom from the Gundam Series.




The shield can also be mounted so as not to conflict with rifles.



Overall, it serves as an extra layer of defense that also has offensive potential.
 

Omnires

Forerunner
Aug 14, 2016
724
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#96
Just for fun let's add in something like a buckler shield. For the people who doesn't know, it is one of the smallest shield types in the world. They were most using to deflect attacks away from you while also not limiting your movement. And many people also use them to punch enemies in the face with. lol
 
#97
Just for fun let's add in something like a buckler shield. For the people who doesn't know, it is one of the smallest shield types in the world. They were most using to deflect attacks away from you while also not limiting your movement. And many people also use them to punch enemies in the face with. lol
Yes, but because of their size, they couldn't possibly block your Frame's effectively, only a small part of it and it probably couldn't pack enough extra punch to be effective past human-sized opponents.
 
#98
1. who said you were forced to use one with melee

2. We could have different types of shields (check Heavy Ideas thread ,Fire may love if that gun was transformed into a melee)

When I say shields I mean you can use them to Block damage either passively ,or have a method like counterattack (In a sense a parry ,parry at right time and it stuns the enemy ,but you don't passively block anymore) ,While either being a shield like those in Heavy ideas thread
But, by passive-blocking do you mean that I wouldn't actively have to hold it up for it to actually block? Then, what's the point of even having it one me. It's not a shield, then. It's just a piece our armor, which would (and should) only passively block, when a certain part of our frame was hit. Like the fore-arm, if the shield was held in it, or a part of it, like a gauntlet.

It could transform, as you suggested. Turn from a gauntlet-type shield, to e.g.: a Shock Rail (I have been thinking about a design like that, for both EM-8ER and RWBY) or some other gun, then when you'd press block it would fold back and you could hold in front of you, otherwise how would it block, passively. Only when your forearm would be hit by bullets. Passive blocking sounds lazy to me and we'll probably have shields, as in an invisible field of energy around us, indicated by a blue-bar. That's as passive as it can get. If we're to have shields, they should have to be used, actively.

A counter-system should be limited, depending on the type of enemy we engage, or it would be heavily exploitable, if one could just counter the attack of every opponent. The only way it would be balanced, is if not all attacks of all type of enemies could be countered and not all of them could be stunned. But, again..I think all of us want too much detail in every aspect. When we talk about shields and melee, everyone is secretly thinking of Dark Souls or something, and wants something like bashing, countering, counter-stunning...etc.

We'll be happy if, after an initial single-swipe, we can have a 2 or 3 hit combo with our melee weapon and some will be happy if they can hold up a shield in front of them that they can modify to expand, so they could block whole groups or have it reflect shots or reflect the environment so it would act as a cloaking wall. Those are good uses. But, a counter-system should have only limited use.
 
Oct 3, 2016
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#99
But, by passive-blocking do you mean that I wouldn't actively have to hold it up for it to actually block? Then, what's the point of even having it one me. It's not a shield, then. It's just a piece our armor, which would (and should) only passively block, when a certain part of our frame was hit. Like the fore-arm, if the shield was held in it, or a part of it, like a gauntlet.

It could transform, as you suggested. Turn from a gauntlet-type shield, to e.g.: a Shock Rail (I have been thinking about a design like that, for both EM-8ER and RWBY) or some other gun, then when you'd press block it would fold back and you could hold in front of you, otherwise how would it block, passively. Only when your forearm would be hit by bullets. Passive blocking sounds lazy to me and we'll probably have shields, as in an invisible field of energy around us, indicated by a blue-bar. That's as passive as it can get. If we're to have shields, they should have to be used, actively.

A counter-system should be limited, depending on the type of enemy we engage, or it would be heavily exploitable, if one could just counter the attack of every opponent. The only way it would be balanced, is if not all attacks of all type of enemies could be countered and not all of them could be stunned. But, again..I think all of us want too much detail in every aspect. When we talk about shields and melee, everyone is secretly thinking of Dark Souls or something, and wants something like bashing, countering, counter-stunning...etc.

We'll be happy if, after an initial single-swipe, we can have a 2 or 3 hit combo with our melee weapon and some will be happy if they can hold up a shield in front of them that they can modify to expand, so they could block whole groups or have it reflect shots or reflect the environment so it would act as a cloaking wall. Those are good uses. But, a counter-system should have only limited use.
By passive blocking I meant with it deployed it covers a decent deal of the body (like how tankhunter showed images of) , as well as letting you attack with one handed weapons (the personal shield is moreless the solo tanker idea of a decent bit of offense and defense but not too much of either) ,and since it covers your body somewhat more then a twig it useful for either pushing ,or holding objectives (and a handy dandy ,again as tankhunter said ,Melee weapon to get people off your back).

Moreless all people have to do to end you is be abit more precise at aiming, or use explosives at your sides/flank you ,all of which makes the shield more of a personal rather then a team ,with a team I have to image it's only Use is in hallways or valleys ,where fighting is narrow (since at best it protects a guy DIRECTLY behind you , and you being directly in front of the guy shooting) .

Not exactly boring ,but more for those who either plan to try to make a shield wall of them ,or a solo tank (I made shield ideas in the Heavy Ideas thread which reflect more so Fire ideas, and earth ideas ) , If we include some ideas they could be rather fun and unique ( shields meant for different ideals ,and play styles ,which let fire be fire ,earth be earth , or have in a sense , magma (earth/fire ,resist ,and counterattack)).
 

Silv3r Shadow

Max Kahuna
Max Kahuna
Kaiju Slayer
Jul 29, 2016
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Just adding some more thaught to the thread.
Left arm-swords/gun-swords are pretty cool, like Optimus Prime, (or right handed).
With the melee, I like black desert online and warfare mechanics. The 1 thing that bugs me with melee from games in general is the same '3 chain combo' for every melee attack, like 1, 2, 3 repeated over and over again.
Final fantasy 15 does a great job at the fluent combo fighting (not to that extent though cause it is a big budget game), but putting out the point out there, maybe randomised combo attacks, like 2, 7, 6, 3, 6, 7, 7, 2, 9 as a attack combo that changes for example. It's still kinda button mashing but isn't exactly the same lol.

Or, another option is like importing like a fighting game mechanics into the game like W+shift (lunge), CTRL+S (block), etc, but that may be the more expensive option.
 
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