Melee combat

NoahDVS

Deepscanner
Jul 27, 2016
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#21
What about melee combined with gunplay? I think melee should be an option, but I think most people are going to want to carry a gun even if they like melee. I think it would be cool if you could reflect lasers or deflect projectiles with melee weapons. There would have to be something to prevent spamming like a cooldown before being able to block again. That way even people who don't like melee combat still have a use for melee weapons. To reduce the amount of buttons required and improve the flow of combat, I think the blocking could be incorporated into the drawing of the weapon. To block again, simply press the button that selects your melee weapon again.
 
Aug 14, 2016
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#22
Reminds me of the jat kittag of warframe

Point very well made
The addition of rockets or chains and the like would definitely give a feeling of weight to each swing
Well, it is just one of the basic rules of real life combat for when you can't avoid taking a hit. Remember “The green reed which bends in the wind is stronger than the mighty oak which breaks in a storm.” In other words, it is better to bend and fall with the force than it is to break trying to resist it.

This also works in real life for non-combat things. Like if you fall from a high place it is best to bend, fall over, and roll to lessen the damage you take rather than to stiffen up and try to brace against it. Like they say, "It is not the fall that kills you it the sudden stop.". Bending, fall over, and rolling when you hit the ground all spreads out both the time it takes for you to come to a stop but also defuses and redirects the energy of the impact.

The science of combat has a lot of laws of physics in it. :cool:
 
Likes: Phyrak

Phyrak

Death Reaper
Sep 11, 2016
39
23
8
#23
What about melee combined with gunplay? I think melee should be an option, but I think most people are going to want to carry a gun even if they like melee. I think it would be cool if you could reflect lasers or deflect projectiles with melee weapons. There would have to be something to prevent spamming like a cooldown before being able to block again. That way even people who don't like melee combat still have a use for melee weapons. To reduce the amount of buttons required and improve the flow of combat, I think the blocking could be incorporated into the drawing of the weapon. To block again, simply press the button that selects your melee weapon again.
The sort of combat you're reminding me of is warframe
A blend of blade and gun - in which you can indeed reflect laser and bullet back to your foe
 

Phyrak

Death Reaper
Sep 11, 2016
39
23
8
#24
Well, it is just one of the basic rules of real life combat for when you can't avoid taking a hit. Remember “The green reed which bends in the wind is stronger than the mighty oak which breaks in a storm.” In other words, it is better to bend and fall with the force than it is to break trying to resist it.

This also works in real life for non-combat things. Like if you fall from a high place it is best to bend, fall over, and roll to lessen the damage you take rather than to stiffen up and try to brace against it. Like they say, "It is not the fall that kills you it the sudden stop.". Bending, fall over, and rolling when you hit the ground all spreads out both the time it takes for you to come to a stop but also defuses and redirects the energy of the impact.

The science of combat has a lot of laws of physics in it. :cool:
The factor of armour/protection types may too be interesting and add another layer of to balance + complexity

Shield/armour/health
Each with their own strengths and weaknesses

One attack may make one bend, whist another attack of a different sort could tear it asunder
 
Likes: ApisLove
Aug 14, 2016
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#25
What about melee combined with gunplay? I think melee should be an option, but I think most people are going to want to carry a gun even if they like melee. I think it would be cool if you could reflect lasers or deflect projectiles with melee weapons. There would have to be something to prevent spamming like a cooldown before being able to block again. That way even people who don't like melee combat still have a use for melee weapons. To reduce the amount of buttons required and improve the flow of combat, I think the blocking could be incorporated into the drawing of the weapon. To block again, simply press the button that selects your melee weapon again.
I'm a fun of things like dual wielding (sword in one hand and gun in the other hand). I'm also fan of combo weapons like gunblades and the transforming weapons like in RWBY.

Fact gun-swords have been around since the first guns were made. The idea is nothing new and can be used freely without fear of things like copy write laws.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pistol_sword
 

NoahDVS

Deepscanner
Jul 27, 2016
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#26
The sort of combat you're reminding me of is warframe
A blend of blade and gun - in which you can indeed reflect laser and bullet back to your foe
I don't remember there being a blocking mechanic in the game. I thought there was just a melee button. I haven't played Warframe in a long time, so I guess I wouldn't know. Just in case you misunderstood me, here's what I'm thinking of:

Let's say your melee weapon is bound to a thumb button on a mouse.
1. You see a large projectile coming at you and you don't have enough time to dodge it.
2. You can begin to move to the side of it and draw your melee weapon when it gets close enough while looking at the projectile to curve it away from you.
3. After the blocking/drawing animation finishes, you can block again by pressing the button it's bound to without having to sheath it first.
Melee users have a way to defend against ranged attacks and people who don't use melee much have something that is effectively a quick block.
 
Aug 14, 2016
978
1,554
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#27
The factor of armour/protection types may too be interesting and add another layer of to balance + complexity

Shield/armour/health
Each with their own strengths and weaknesses

One attack may make one bend, whist another attack of a different sort could tear it asunder
Well, that is why things like cars are built with things like crumple zones in them. By designing things to break in a controlled way you make it safer because it'll absorb, defuses, and redirect all incoming energy and force.

For the people that don't know.
Crumple zones are a part of a motor vehicle, especially the extreme front and rear, designed to crumple easily in a crash and absorb the main force of an impact.
 

Phyrak

Death Reaper
Sep 11, 2016
39
23
8
#28
I don't remember there being a blocking mechanic in the game. I thought there was just a melee button. I haven't played Warframe in a long time, so I guess I wouldn't know. Just in case you misunderstood me, here's what I'm thinking of:

Let's say your melee weapon is bound to a thumb button on a mouse.
1. You see a large projectile coming at you and you don't have enough time to dodge it.
2. You can begin to move to the side of it and draw your melee weapon when it gets close enough while looking at the projectile to curve it away from you.
3. After the blocking/drawing animation finishes, you can block again by pressing the button it's bound to without having to sheath it first.
Melee users have a way to defend against ranged attacks and people who don't use melee much have something that is effectively a quick block.
Melee can now be used pretty much as you said in your explanation in wf

Its system conceptually would be a decent build off to get into the quirks of melee in an omni frame
 

Phyrak

Death Reaper
Sep 11, 2016
39
23
8
#29
Well, that is why things like cars are built with things like crumple zones in them. By designing things to break in a controlled way you make it safer because it'll absorb, defuses, and redirect all incoming energy and force.

For the people that don't know.
Crumple zones are a part of a motor vehicle, especially the extreme front and rear, designed to crumple easily in a crash and absorb the main force of an impact.
A crumple zone would be rad graphically to show the increase damage and damaging effects for ranged and melee combat
Though, would kill any computing power as doing it in mass

The other option is skins showing such damage
 

NoahDVS

Deepscanner
Jul 27, 2016
182
133
43
#30
I'm a fun of things like dual wielding (sword in one hand and gun in the other hand). I'm also fan of combo weapons like gunblades and the transforming weapons like in RWBY.

Fact gun-swords have been around since the first guns were made. The idea is nothing new and can be used freely without fear of things like copy write laws.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pistol_sword
I'm not a fan of the weapons in RWBY
 
Aug 14, 2016
978
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#31
I'm not a fan of the weapons in RWBY
That is understandable. Not all weapons armor types appeal to everyone.

For example, because I value freedom of movement and speed I don't big bulky heavy armor. As for weapons, I like things that do a lot of damage in as few hits possible. This why in most games I play I'm the guy who likes to kill things in 1 hit or in 1 combo. My fav abilities to have games are super powerful nearly unblockable attack that's designed to kill everything hit by in 1 hit and death by a thousand cuts (using small fast weapons like daggers to attack super high number of times that both stun locks enemies and attacks nonstop.)

For the that don't know. Here are 2 examples of death by a thousand cuts.
http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Final_Hit
This how the attack looks in things like anime

 
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Phyrak

Death Reaper
Sep 11, 2016
39
23
8
#32
I'm not a fan of the weapons in RWBY
Perhaps in relation to split weapons, make them limited in capacity

Ie. Sniper spear

Relatively easy to adjust to due to the nature of shape between the weapons - this gives niche to those wanting to use such weapons whilst not treading on the toes of those wanting to stay traditional with their weaponry
 
#34
I like to play as stealth assassin characters. So I'll give up having lots of armor and health as a trade off for having powerful melee attacks (killing in 1 or 2 hits) and high mobility. Even if I don't have the ability to do things like turn invisible it still counts as stealth as long as I can move fast enough to always stay behind my target and/or stay out of line of sight.

Also I made I post awhile back. Keeping the science in sci-fi
Force is mass times acceleration. So it would nice if you could use things like the thrusters and pile drivers on our mecha to aid us in melee fighting. For example, if you are flying toward that enemy just before landing a punch you'll do more damage than if you were standing still doing the same punch. Although even if you were standing still if you had a pile driver on or in your arms you could active it at the right moment to add a lot of extra force to the punch.

This would also work in lessening or to avoid taking damage too. As there are a number of ways to absorb, defuses, and redirect oncoming a force. Using a punch as an example, one way to minimize damage from a punch is to move with the punch in the same direction at close to the same speed. Lessing the force you take from the hit as there less energy transferred into your body. In effect to take less damage do things like bending and falling over with the hit rather than taking it head on. But that is just one example.

This can also be used in weapons. For example, adding thrusters the head of a hammer to give you greater speed when you swing it.
edited for typos.
As good a concept as all that is and as useful in practice as it all comes in reality, I don't think programming some Tai Chi would be very cheap or even completely possible. Never seen a game with such an elaborate fighting/melee system and I'd wager it isn't because developer couldn't do one, but because it would take forever and would eventually cost them their pension.
 
#35
What about melee combined with gunplay? I think melee should be an option, but I think most people are going to want to carry a gun even if they like melee. I think it would be cool if you could reflect lasers or deflect projectiles with melee weapons. There would have to be something to prevent spamming like a cooldown before being able to block again. That way even people who don't like melee combat still have a use for melee weapons. To reduce the amount of buttons required and improve the flow of combat, I think the blocking could be incorporated into the drawing of the weapon. To block again, simply press the button that selects your melee weapon again.
I'd love me some gun-kata.

But, yeah, something like swatting away an energy blast with an energy, blade. Not reflecting it, just swatting it.

That thing in Dragon Age Inquisition where you could upgrade you enchanter's blade-attack to reflect enemy attacks was so poorly done. I expected something more than just some flailing, spinning light.
 
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#36
A question to @Grummz and the rest of the developers:

I'm wondering if you guys have a concept for which type of melee weapons we'd use. Physical, cold, hard steel (or whatever material)? Or...energy-projections?

And if energy-types, then which one. I differentiate between two sub-types. Fuzzy and smooth.

Fuzzy, is where the "edges" of the blade are unstable...think Kylo Ren (or however his names is spelled) or this:


Smooth is this:

Now, I like both types. They are both visually appealing. However, the reason I would choose the smooth design over the fuzzy one, is because it allows for more elaborate shapes than just a basic(ally slightly rounded) rod. And the sci-fi can explain why the fuzzy-type could not be bent into different shapes and why the smooth design can be.

Also, not melee-related, but some good sci-fi concept of how repairing could look, one of my favorite fan-art from the Mega Man Zero series (look at the head-piece being repaired by some...I don't know...super-duper futuristic 3D-printer):

Although, I don't see how they'd make good hammers out of energy-projections (oh, well - more fun for sword-users:p).

Also, melee weapons where the blade/edge would be projected would be more weight/size/space-efficient, when they'd be powered off and would only activate when used. So...

Like the fan-art I'm going to make...an unassuming, but sizable gun, can suddenly project energy-blades both on the top and below the barrel, like large, energy-bayonets, making a double-edged sword.:D
 
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NoahDVS

Deepscanner
Jul 27, 2016
182
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#38
I liked Melee on firefall 1.3 and back. Did not like that ridicules sword they added on 1.6
There was never anything special about melee in Firefall though. The most 1.6 did with melee was make melee bound to equipment rather than perks and some melee weapons had special attacks like blade dash.
 

Ronyn

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Jul 26, 2016
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#40
If I actually had 3D modeling software AND more importantly skill + the patience to learn them. :confused:
Cool weapon. Can you make one of those on the standard, buffed out frame?