Living/Evolving gear

Aug 14, 2016
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#1
This topic is related to gear customization and character development. In some games the is a class gear that is players never outgrow because the power of the grows with the player. Most people call things like this living gear as often times in fantasy games these items have minds and personalities of their own. In sci-fi games, the closest things would be gear with an advanced A.I. able to change things about itself and/or the gear it controls to best fit the players' wants/needs.

I know this game is going to have a somewhat horizontal progression system. But I still like the idea of living weapons/armor in games. This because I often find one or two weapons I really like and want to keep forever, but do to how different games work that is often impossible. But living gear breaks those rules that normal weapons and armor follow because they can be somewhat counted as a character rather than an item. This means I don't have to wastes time hunting for new gear as progress in the game as long as I remember to also change the stats on my living gear to match.

In the name of trying to keep this post short. Here are 3 example of how you change/level living weapons.
  • Experience from usage - This means just like how your character gains experience from doing things your weapons and armor also experience as you use them. Going by the game type and style this does everything from raising the states, unlock abilities that only that gear can do, add more slots for things like arguments and mods, etc.
  • Player building ability - This means how powerful the gear can get is based on limited of the player themselves. For example, let's say there is a blacksmithing skill in a game and living weapon that can be leveled up based on the skill of the character. Meaning that as the person becomes better at blacksmithing they can use those abilities to make the living weapon better. And like before based on the type game can do anything from raising stats and stuff.
  • Essence absorbing and transference - This means it is not the item itself that is the source of its power and abilities but the mind/soul/A.I. that lives within it. This means they can grow based on how much they can learn and grow as a conscious being. So by letting them do things like absorb (eat) other items or study/scan other items helps them better to understand more about how things word and to better help you by changing things about themselves. But this also means you can move the conscious being out of one item into another item if you feel it is better suited to your style. This type of living gear helps games where new weapons and stuff are added often, allowing players to move the stats and abilities of one weapon or item into a new one (like moving and A.I. from one one computer into another one.)

What are your thoughts on living gear in games?

P.s.
In games where living weapons have a mind of their own. It can sometimes make for odd talks in chat as when people say things like "My sword is pissed off at me. I need to find something to feed her so she'll stop yelling at me when I ask for help." or "The reason my gun never needs ammo or needs to reload is because it can draw in energy from outside sources. Although it gets mad at me if I miss too many shots and gets tired if there is not enough energy around for it to absorb. Although it'll start to drain my energy/health if I keep using it after that point."
 

Vladplaya

Commander
Em-8er Contributor
Jul 27, 2016
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#3
Living grear is for standard mmorpgs, where you discard weapons only because of the vertical progression. With horizontal progression in Ember, we shouldn't be outgrowing our gear, even with little vertical progression that the game might end up, all weapons should be more or less viable. So if you have favorite weapon you like, then just keep it and keep crafting better versions of it with better resources. Horizontal progression and power curve, basically make any gear, the living gear by its nature.
 
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Aug 14, 2016
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#4
True, but I still want to have an A.I. controlled transforming gun. That way the gun itself could talk to me and given me information. After all, it'll know enough to know I'm the type of person who likes to kill in 1 shot if at all possible. So it might do things like highlight a spot on a rock for me to aim for to make the bullet ricochet and hit the enemy in the head or make the rock fall off the cliff so it can land on enemies.

As I level up the A.I. by having it scan more weapons and enemies it can unlock new abilities. Like a sniper rifle that fires long range shotgun shells, by changing the ammo into a time delay or range delay round the shell fired from the sniper rifle will explode spread out like a cone pattern just before getting to the target. Or a sniper rifle that fires AOE rounds, by changing ammo to one with proximity charges and/or a time delay charges the A.I. can help make sure the rounds will explode within the right range for damage. (Note as odd and futuristic as this sounds, there are a few guns and ammo types that can do this real life. So those two examples are not reality breaking. But I'll admit they would be hard to balance for in a video game. It just helps to prove that in real life wars and combat is not fair.)
 
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Daynen

Active Member
Aug 3, 2016
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#5
Ultimately you're just talking about a piece of gear you can modify more extensively rather than multiple pieces of gear that add up to the same effect. In a standard vertical MMO this would be an "heirloom" or "legacy" item that grows with the player, but in Ember, it may be difficult to make worthwhile without obsoleting a lot of gear acquisition and advancement. Hard to say exactly how one could implement this within the current design goals.

Doesn't mean it's out of the question; just means an old concept has to be seriously rethought and carefully implemented before being added to this particular game. We should also probably wait to see a few more facets of the game get fleshed out before adding something so potentially subversive.
 

zdoofop

Firstclaimer
Jul 26, 2016
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#6
True, but I still want to have an A.I. controlled transforming gun. That way the gun itself could talk to me and given me information. After all, it'll know enough to know I'm the type of person who likes to kill in 1 shot if at all possible. So it might do things like highlight a spot on a rock for me to aim for to make the bullet ricochet and hit the enemy in the head or make the rock fall off the cliff so it can land on enemies.

As I level up the A.I. by having it scan more weapons and enemies it can unlock new abilities. Like a sniper rifle that fires long range shotgun shells, by changing the ammo into a time delay or range delay round the shell fired from the sniper rifle will explode spread out like a cone pattern just before getting to the target. Or a sniper rifle that fires AOE rounds, by changing ammo to one with proximity charges and/or a time delay charges the A.I. can help make sure the rounds will explode within the right range for damage. (Note as odd and futuristic as this sounds, there are a few guns and ammo types that can do this real life. So those two examples are not reality breaking. But I'll admit they would be hard to balance for in a video game. It just helps to prove that in real life wars and combat is not fair.)
so basically you want knight rider
 
Aug 14, 2016
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#7
More like Jarvis from Ironman or Cortana from Halo or Jehuty and Anubis from Zone Of The Enders or other things like that.

Hell even in games like fantasy games where levels don't really matter like Mabinogi they have spirit weapons, part of the reason to have a spirit weapon is because it can never be dropped (when you die you risk dropping the gear you have on) and they can never break (there is only many times you can repair something before it just pointless to do so or it breaks).

Spirit Weapons, also known as Egos, are utilized by casting a spirit onto a desirable weapon in order to awaken one's true strength. With continuous and intense care by the user, a spirit weapon can grow up to a point where it can easily surpass the abilities of upgraded or enchanted weapons.
http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Spirit_Weapon

P.s.
In Mabinogi I have a female spirit sword who calls me things like "big brother" and give my the title of "the Older Brother of Female Spirit for Sword" lol
 
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TankHunter678

Well-Known Member
Jul 26, 2016
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#10
More like Jarvis from Ironman or Cortana from Halo or Jehuty and Anubis from Zone Of The Enders or other things like that.

Hell even in games like fantasy games where levels don't really matter like Mabinogi they have spirit weapons, part of the reason to have a spirit weapon is because it can never be dropped (when you die you risk dropping the gear you have on) and they can never break (there is only many times you can repair something before it just pointless to do so or it breaks).

Spirit Weapons, also known as Egos, are utilized by casting a spirit onto a desirable weapon in order to awaken one's true strength. With continuous and intense care by the user, a spirit weapon can grow up to a point where it can easily surpass the abilities of upgraded or enchanted weapons.
http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Spirit_Weapon

P.s.
In Mabinogi I have a female spirit sword who calls me things like "big brother" and give my the title of "the Older Brother of Female Spirit for Sword" lol
The Female Bludgeon Spirit is the best looking of the spirits.

Although she has confidence issues, probably due to blunt weapons having such a wide damage range with a low minimum and very high maximum damage so it is not the most useful of weapon types.
 
Aug 14, 2016
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#11
The Female Bludgeon Spirit is the best looking of the spirits.

Although she has confidence issues, probably due to blunt weapons having such a wide damage range with a low minimum and very high maximum damage so it is not the most useful of weapon types.
Now picture her in something like a gun with a large damage range because of things like needing to charge to full power or having an odd random elemental damage type. An A.I. in a weapon like that would also have some confidence issues just because it would be too hard to get consist damage due to the random nature of the gun and/or ammo type itself.

Different A.I. personalities can have abilities based on what they are good at.
 

TankHunter678

Well-Known Member
Jul 26, 2016
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#12
Now picture her in something like a gun with a large damage range because of things like needing to charge to full power or having an odd random elemental damage type. An A.I. in a weapon like that would also have some confidence issues just because it would be too hard to get consist damage due to the random nature of the gun and/or ammo type itself.

Different A.I. personalities can have abilities based on what they are good at.
Could take it a different way in that the AI instead of being in the gun is your suit's support AI, with the AI having program slots that you slot specific programs in to manage certain kinds of systems (granting bonuses/negatives to particular things), while the personality/appearance is something that is cosmetic. This way different AI personalities can be implemented, but the player is not punished for using an AI whose appearance/voice they like.

It would also make more sense that way.

In Mabinogi I got a Female Blunt Spirit because I liked her (though the way she talked and how lacking in confidence she was made me want to hug her...), even though I only ever really used swords in actual combat.

If you still want a weapon that has its own AI separate from the suit, one thing that could be looked at is recovered Tsihu weapons from ruin vaults. This way you can get Borderlands style talking weapons.
 

Pandagnome

Kaiju Slayer
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Jul 27, 2016
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#14
I like the idea that there various a.i options with personalities perhaps one is a defensive a.i or another more offensive
they could be adaptable as you progress and how you play

Female voices
http://techcabal.com/2015/11/16/why-artificial-intelligence-usually-has-a-female-voice/

The a.i is your companion in some ways relaying info and having its personality that attaches you to it
with concern for the pilot and the stuipid jokes it could make on those harsh battles the a.i & pilot could face!

The sound the a.i's i'd like to imagine would be like these some more robotic sounding while others sounding more human
that make you connect more to it.

I personally like both styles i am sure there are more but these i get drawn to more.

(love this)
(Elizabeth voice is cool)

Scott Menville voice of arthur in second chance series

(i just added this because imagined if the suit would be in a state of panic
if it did not want to die?)
 
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#18
Could take it a different way in that the AI instead of being in the gun is your suit's support AI, with the AI having program slots that you slot specific programs in to manage certain kinds of systems (granting bonuses/negatives to particular things), while the personality/appearance is something that is cosmetic. This way different AI personalities can be implemented, but the player is not punished for using an AI whose appearance/voice they like.

It would also make more sense that way.

In Mabinogi I got a Female Blunt Spirit because I liked her (though the way she talked and how lacking in confidence she was made me want to hug her...), even though I only ever really used swords in actual combat.

If you still want a weapon that has its own AI separate from the suit, one thing that could be looked at is recovered Tsihu weapons from ruin vaults. This way you can get Borderlands style talking weapons.
Yea, I know what you mean. I came across a few characters in games that just made me want to hug them. And in one game it was a boss enemy too, but after the fight and learning more about them I just wanted to give them a hug or something.

To me, one the high marks of any game is can the make me feel for the characters in it. Can they make me care about them and their wellbeing beyond reasons of game mechanics? If so then that is good character development.

Just because I like to kill things in one hit and use stealth, and sometimes go into a blood rage killing everything in my path without thought, doesn't mean I'm not also a caring person. I have a bit of an overactive paternal instinct, so get this odd sense of joy when I protect and nurture those who need it. This could be part of the reason why I do better in some games when my companion charater is child-like in nature.