Lets talk character resets

[Cadbane]

I think this topic may need some serious discussion and debate. More importanly, find out peoples expectations and make reasonable decisions to help Ember stay fun for the vets and fair for newbies.

Thoughts:

Character whipes:
Yes and No... This one is kinda tricky and my main concern. I am thinking yes to anything that gives major advantages over others just starting. No to the other stuff. Kinda vague I know, but common sense should prevail.

Example of advantages: The 80 million in cy I am sitting on in Firefall. While others struggle to get. The 50 rk 9 modules I have cause I farmed easy shit for module credits. Massive xp packs.....

Maybe the answer lies in test servers being completely seperate from actual live server accounts?

I know this maybe premature and there is a lot more to think about then just the above. I feel we should discuss now before people get the feeling of being owed or feel entitled to things for being Alpha/Beta players.

Tldr; How to test and play milestones, without ruining the game due to feeling entitled or gaining massive advantages over others. Yet be rewarded in some fashion?

 

[Vedemin]

If a real horizontal progression will be here, we won't have such problems. Mk.9 modules wouldn't exist as there wouldn't be better alternatives of the same thing

 

[Cadbane]

If a real horizontal progression will be here, we won't have such problems. Mk.9 modules wouldn't exist as there wouldn't be better alternatives of the same thing

I was using things like modules as a concept or example of unfair advantages that could be gained. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Vladplaya]

Yes to character wipes. That is just a natural thing that should happen when you are testing a game. Horizontal progression or not. If you don't like wipes, then don't play. Or better yet, play the game, give your feedback, try to make it the best game out there, AND DON'T GET ATTACHED TO VIRTUAL CRAP. Its just a game, if you build up your character or made so much resources, its okay if that will get wiped, you will build it up again just like the last time, probably faster because you know what you are doing, and you will once again enjoy playing the game.

I have bad memories from FF when people acquired so much resources, exp and everything else because of bugs and glitches of incomplete game, and than were allowed to keep all that stuff. It's just a bad deal imo.

 

[Ammara]

The deal with old FireFall players being rich is because there was simply too many re-hauls and compensations. Normally, those who spend more effective game play time would be rich fair and square.

I don't see character wipes being necessary in Ember, it should start well and keep going well from the start. If resets prove to be needed, I would go for currency and equipment wipe rather than completely wiping characters. That should prevents trolls from stealing nicknames and other things.

 

[Vladplaya]

it should start well and keep going well from the start.

That's like everyone hope, ever. Never goes like that though.

That should prevents trolls from stealing nicknames and other things.

I should clarify that by character wipes I mean erasing stuff on your character and your exp, you would still keep your actual character with the original name, since there is no need to erase that. Most games that had full wipes follow that logic.

Also I am not asking for wipes, I hate them just like everyone else, however it is easy to see how much advantage people can get by using new glitches, or broken AI, unbalanced skills/gear/weapons, etc. Everything needs testing, and majority of the time, when new things are introduced, they usually don't work as intended, and allowing people to take advantage of stuff like that not only unfair for those who have to play fair later, but also is bad for the economy as people start to stockpile resources and exp from the very beginning. Which is exactly what happened in FireFall early on.

So I don't like wipes, but let's all not act like they are the end of the world. Character wipes are just part of the process of making a good game, and if more people would view those as such that would be awesome

 

[Nunaden]

Then let them abuse the shit. I will use the skills that fit my playstyle... And that will be perhaps the fair ones (unless they make a poison trail or a shield unfair *lol*)

 

[DeyjaVou]

To my current understanding, Ember is being released incrementally and will feature test builds at each milestone.

Once we get to a point where we start testing a persistent universe, we should have persistent characters. If it requires an overhaul, or major features are introduced that are irrelevant to built up players, a wipe should happen to facilitate proper testing.

Or maybe once we reach open beta everything is brought to zero and we can start permanent characters. I wouldn't be against tester badges or cosmetics though ♥

 

[Brezals]

If not wiping means more dev time spent on migration and playe support, or changes in design to compensate the non-wiping that will occur, then Heeeeeelllll no. Just wipe it.

 

[TankHunter678]

Wipes are expected during things like test builds, ongoing incremental betas, and game release approaching playerbase equalization.

This is largely because post release the core of the game should be done, and anything after that should not change core systems too heavily. Except for refinement of the systems to be more effective.

Basically, the game should never wind up with major overhauls changing the core gameplay changing everything and causing things like Firefall migrations.

 

[NitroMidgets]

Wipes are useful. It helps remove the shit. You know, gives you a clean start.

 

[DemonSlayer873]

Character wipes in alpha or closed beta are fine as long as you get something cosmetic after that. Character wipes in open beta would also be fine if the beta period is short. Character wipes after release are something stupid and if this happens im quitting

 

[Nellana]

In modern Game Development it is standart to Wipe Characters after every milestone or major game changeing patch.
It is in fact alot esayer for a Developer to catch bugs when they dont have to worry about migrading characters items / costmetics and such things when they bring out a new Milestone. Becouse with a migraded Database chances are high there are glitched items some where, while on a clean slate you can concentrate and identify issues that arise alot quicker.

I remember well alpha/beta testing Defiance for examble, we had a full clean slate wipe with every milestone, sure you had some people cry about their wiped characters but over all it was clearly stated that character wipes will be common.

In my honest opinion as long it is clearly communicated that Character Wipes after a Milestone / Major Game change will happen i am sure people will accept it.

Obviously wipeing character progress after Release is virtual suicide, and as Red5 has shown us trying to do major changes to a hacked up Engine and absolutely terrible database backend is just plain murdering your game when you try to migrade a playerbase on a scale as Firefall was. But im not gona go into detail about that here, Firefall is done and over. Lets just not have the same mistakes beeing done with Ember.

[edit]
Forgot to add, focus testing content and having lvls boosted / general item setups for focus tests can also speed up things, when the leveling expiriance is pretty much done and you are starting to work on endgame you obviously dont want to have the playerbase have to level a character (frame) from the start again and instead give them max lvl characters after a wipe and then focus test new content.

Same rings true for all level / progression ranges, so frequent wipes plus focus testing setups provided can speed up the whole bug smashing cycle tenfold.

 

[DARKB1KE]

During testing, yes if needed.
Once cash shop is live and working, no, that's final.

 

[Nellana]

During testing, yes if needed.
Once cash shop is live and working, no, that's final.

The best way to avoide issues with a cash shop is to have it run on a totally redundant database to the character database and unlock items on a account level. That way you can still wipe characters and systems clean slate and at the same time retain any cash shop item (costmetics and such). With a redundant running cash shop for costmetics and such you could wipe daily and people could just claim their stuff again.

 

[NitroMidgets]

I'd like to think that they can wipe anything not purchased in the shop for real cash. Just give anything from the Cash Shop a bracket of its own like "Cosmetics" or "Cash Shop" and that bracket can never be wiped.

 

[EvilKitten]

As has already been pointed out, with purely horizontal progression there is no need for 1-1000 qualities of materials so those hard sought out resources that you spent your blood sweat and tears over wouldn't exist. If player gear is quickly and easily obtained so that it doesn't take more than a few days to get back to the state you were in before I don't even see that there would be many reasons for a wipe, and if needed would not really be all that painful.

 

[Squid Boss]

Closed Beta? - Wipe regularly or with every major change to game fundamentals.
Open Beta - Wipe prior to release.

At no point should anything accumulate during design testing or beta testing and flow into the launch.

"But my time!"

Shut up. You got X amount of time to play the game and learn everything before other people. Reward enough. I suppose if it makes you feel better about yourself you could have a Beta Tester title.

 

[Luisedgm]

Just give an exclusive cosmetic to all beta players. People may whine and moan but they know they are playing a beta and shit will be reset several times, they will keep playing anyways.

 

[HighCaliber]

I don't like resets but I live through them.