I see no problem in paying a fee to get in, I loved the GW2 type moodel. I will look forward to where this leads Grummz and the rest of the Ember Dev team. I genuinely hope I can play a true version of Morningstar in the reincarnation of Firefall (and the engineer that was in-game is not Morningstar). Here's looking to see you on the new battlefield.
Likes:
Ammara
Free 6h demo or not, i have no problem. Also no problem with even a monthly membership.
I would pay just for the community alone! I mean, why not. I pre-purched The Division!
...but that didn't turn out that well
I would pay just for the community alone! I mean, why not. I pre-purched The Division!
...but that didn't turn out that well
Likes:
NitroMidgets and Nellana
it also helps that buying Equipment just skips the (usually) pretty simple process of Crafting it. so just a button for being lazy/impatient.
Likes:
Waspyeh and Kryusien
I think it's a good way for Warframe to make money from inventory slots. Even better, you can spend as little as $5 for a few as you need them. I think I put nearly $50 so far into the game (possibly $20 for inventory slots for Warframes and weapons) into the game. Could be a good way for Ember to make its money between expansions.
Just make the regular equipment both awesome in performance AND ordinary in appearance... or make them all look the same. If the player wants to make himself look different from everyone else, he/she should pay for those accessories. The danger here though is what happened to Warframe... I hear the endgame is called "Fashion Frame" now... But I'm not sure it's a bad thing. And yes... I admit to buying at least TWO frames outright. Equniox and Mesa as I like those frames but they would've been a pain for me to get.
Just make the regular equipment both awesome in performance AND ordinary in appearance... or make them all look the same. If the player wants to make himself look different from everyone else, he/she should pay for those accessories. The danger here though is what happened to Warframe... I hear the endgame is called "Fashion Frame" now... But I'm not sure it's a bad thing. And yes... I admit to buying at least TWO frames outright. Equniox and Mesa as I like those frames but they would've been a pain for me to get.
There was a way to get around it in warframe.
You could trade cores and mods for platinum from other players then use that to buy the slots.
You could trade cores and mods for platinum from other players then use that to buy the slots.
Likes:
Waspyeh and Kryusien
I have to echo the people saying they're fine with initial cost/subscription. I think the F2P model is allowing too much room for game creators to release unfinished/unpolished products.
Likes:
Krhys, Mahdi and Fryepod
I'm up for a vanilla up front charge. Initial founders packages are cool too.
If you did decide to have some kind of initial short term founders packages, give a free access key or two to that founder so we can get other people on board and since it'd be the founders pack fee, not the vanilla fee you'd wouldn't lose any money from us inviting others in.
I'm just saying, i had never even herd of firefall until my cousin had sent me a beta key
If you did decide to have some kind of initial short term founders packages, give a free access key or two to that founder so we can get other people on board and since it'd be the founders pack fee, not the vanilla fee you'd wouldn't lose any money from us inviting others in.
I'm just saying, i had never even herd of firefall until my cousin had sent me a beta key
Free 6h demo or not, i have no problem. Also no problem with even a monthly membership.
I would pay just for the community alone! I mean, why not. I pre-purched The Division!
...but that didn't turn out that well
I would pay just for the community alone! I mean, why not. I pre-purched The Division!
...but that didn't turn out that well
Oh well wonderfull people like daddy pez are extremly rare, but theres outstanding community managers (frank) good community managers and even decent community managers (like the cryptic ones from STO) and then you have these kinda rotten apples as community managers we have sitting at Division community team.
But back to topic, i am all for a Pay to Play / Monthly Sub setup if done right, wich means global coverage and possible time card purchases if going with a monthly Sub system, or at the very least add the most common current payment options to pay your account. Paysafe / Paypal / Monybookers / Credit Card. I am sure i missed some but thos are the ones i see beeing supported by many Companys who run a Pay to Play / Sub system.
Likes:
TGVirus
Buy to Play: Pay once, play for free... u-transactions for cosmetics
Pay to Play: Subscription [and has there been a sub to play game that didn't have an upfront purchase?], I prefer this option personally but let's face it, it does matter if Ember can get AND keep a large enough community of players for this to work. You would need to be able to hit FFXIV's kinda of numbers.
Free to play WITH subscription: So strictly F2P, u-transactions for cosmetics BUT an optional subscription that does things like +15% XP gain, an additional bank vault, perma mount/etc and other stuff. Kinda have to walk a fine line here... if you gave subscribers things like 100% faster crafting times [assuming crafting armored underwear took 24 hours] or no cooldowns on gliders. They don't give you an edge while in combat but... you can then do things like 5 daily mission bonuses instead of 3 and so on. You can even throw in free 1 day or 1 week subscriber status when you make larger purchases at the in-game store.
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Pay to Play: Subscription [and has there been a sub to play game that didn't have an upfront purchase?], I prefer this option personally but let's face it, it does matter if Ember can get AND keep a large enough community of players for this to work. You would need to be able to hit FFXIV's kinda of numbers.
Free to play WITH subscription: So strictly F2P, u-transactions for cosmetics BUT an optional subscription that does things like +15% XP gain, an additional bank vault, perma mount/etc and other stuff. Kinda have to walk a fine line here... if you gave subscribers things like 100% faster crafting times [assuming crafting armored underwear took 24 hours] or no cooldowns on gliders. They don't give you an edge while in combat but... you can then do things like 5 daily mission bonuses instead of 3 and so on. You can even throw in free 1 day or 1 week subscriber status when you make larger purchases at the in-game store.
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F2P is nice because it lets you find out if you actually enjoy a game before you spend any money. It's also nice because the things you buy are things you like and nothing else. "Voting with your wallet" is a very clear message in an F2P premium shop; either an item sells because people buy it, or it doesn't. It's NOT nice because it lets you abuse a game's playerbase via scams, spamming, and bots without any real consequences. (ESO had a rampant problem with this and probably still does.)
Retail price is nice because you know that every player in the game has supported it financially and actually cared enough to spend money on a hobby they want. It's not nice because if you don't like the game, disagree with developer/publisher decisions, or see a problem you can't tolerate, you're out of luck; not only are you out your cash, but you've effectively told the devs that what they're doing is good, even if it really isn't. (Elite Dangerous is in this camp: I'm severely disappointed in their current direction, but I've already paid up, so oh well.)
Subscription is nice because you can accurately gauge when players decide your game is or isn't worth supporting and playing, and the profits can add up quickly. It's not nice because it ends up being a VERY expensive game for players, especially when you bury it in endless progression and create an unhealthy attachment to completely trivial things, which in turn can lead to some pretty sad life stories. It also means players can't vote on certain features with their wallet: either they're paying for everything at once, or they're not playing at all. It's very hard to gauge interest in specific features via subscription fees. Sure, $15 a month is still paltry compared to anything else in life, but when a retail game is $40 to $60, you're overpaying after 3-4 months, whether the game is actually good or not. It's very binary. (WoW, I'm looking at you.)
If anyone's curious, Chronicles of Elyria is planning a new, yet very old, profit model, wherein a player pays a set price for each life. Permadeath is a thing, but not such a draconian thing as one might imagine. It's an intriguing model and bears examining, for those interested in the topic.
Retail price is nice because you know that every player in the game has supported it financially and actually cared enough to spend money on a hobby they want. It's not nice because if you don't like the game, disagree with developer/publisher decisions, or see a problem you can't tolerate, you're out of luck; not only are you out your cash, but you've effectively told the devs that what they're doing is good, even if it really isn't. (Elite Dangerous is in this camp: I'm severely disappointed in their current direction, but I've already paid up, so oh well.)
Subscription is nice because you can accurately gauge when players decide your game is or isn't worth supporting and playing, and the profits can add up quickly. It's not nice because it ends up being a VERY expensive game for players, especially when you bury it in endless progression and create an unhealthy attachment to completely trivial things, which in turn can lead to some pretty sad life stories. It also means players can't vote on certain features with their wallet: either they're paying for everything at once, or they're not playing at all. It's very hard to gauge interest in specific features via subscription fees. Sure, $15 a month is still paltry compared to anything else in life, but when a retail game is $40 to $60, you're overpaying after 3-4 months, whether the game is actually good or not. It's very binary. (WoW, I'm looking at you.)
If anyone's curious, Chronicles of Elyria is planning a new, yet very old, profit model, wherein a player pays a set price for each life. Permadeath is a thing, but not such a draconian thing as one might imagine. It's an intriguing model and bears examining, for those interested in the topic.
these are dangerous suggestions. Paying to speed up the game is a risky business; when your players are done with everything, they eventually get bored and leave. Designing a game that forcibly imposes ridiculous wait times and then charging them to alleviate them isn't good gameplay design, nor is it good business; it's scummy. If you design a good game, you don't want players to pay to skip most of it. Otherwise...you haven't designed a very good game, aye?
Likes:
taiiat
I could do that, but the trade channel was FLOODED with offers to buy and sell, something I had no patience for (wading through all that text made my eyes bleed). Still it's nice that the option is there. And some people support the game by buying Platinum which they then trade to other players to get what they want without having to go out and get it themselves. You still have to build it though...
interesting. i've tried to encourage Players getting a few Slots over the course of their lifetime, such as a Weapon slot every couple Mastery Ranks and a Warframe Slot every 5, Et Cetera. this isn't a thing (yet?) though.
(don't start a discussion about Mastery Rank here, i've been with Warframe plenty long enough, i'm fully aware what it intends to do it is not completely successful at)
FYI, nowadays Players can put item Links in Chat to make it easier to find things(like what Players are used to in many online games, recognized links of an item that show up in a unified way). baby steps.
eventually i expect being able to search/Filter Trade Chat for certain things, and/or separate Channels for buying and selling.
(don't start a discussion about Mastery Rank here, i've been with Warframe plenty long enough, i'm fully aware what it intends to do it is not completely successful at)
FYI, nowadays Players can put item Links in Chat to make it easier to find things(like what Players are used to in many online games, recognized links of an item that show up in a unified way). baby steps.
eventually i expect being able to search/Filter Trade Chat for certain things, and/or separate Channels for buying and selling.
Let Me just say i am one of those cheapskates who never intends to spend money on F2P games, or moreover not spend money while im fresh out of college and thus broke. However i must say that Warframe has probably Conned me out of $50, not because i felt i had to to speed up build times or get items, i haven't spent a single plat on the foundry or store, i can get those things for free. I spent that money because i Wanted To! Warframes gameplay kept me around long enough to realise i would like it long term, it gave me everything but cosmetics, so bland and boring frame colors, and designs. but everything came to a Head when the daily reward Rolled one day and gave me a 70% Discount. It was Just too Tantalizing, I can get a bunch of the stuff i wanted at so little cost, also inventory slots and better ability to trade for what i want.
So I think there is some Merit in having sales as random daily rewards, giving you $1000 worth of Cosmetics doesn't actually cost them anything, you not paying them anything is what costs them. a player Market driven Directly or indirectly by real World Currency helps too allowing Paying players to spend more getting rewards from free players hard work.
an additional idea i have is that keep a Warframe type update schedule, update small bits often, not every time you have overhauled everything. But unlike Warframe, crowdfund it, heck you could even do crowdfunding polls offering Players their pick of new features to throw their money at, this may give players the feeling of influence over the games direction. but that's not all, Free Players can also Participate, they gather resources and materials, or credits, from common to rare and Donate it towards the Crowdfunding goal of their choosing. when the crowdfunding has been successful, the Donated Resources of the Free Players are Spread to the Paying players. this way free players can sweeten the pot and feel like they have influence while the sweetened Pot gets the Payers to Pony up more Dough.
So I think there is some Merit in having sales as random daily rewards, giving you $1000 worth of Cosmetics doesn't actually cost them anything, you not paying them anything is what costs them. a player Market driven Directly or indirectly by real World Currency helps too allowing Paying players to spend more getting rewards from free players hard work.
an additional idea i have is that keep a Warframe type update schedule, update small bits often, not every time you have overhauled everything. But unlike Warframe, crowdfund it, heck you could even do crowdfunding polls offering Players their pick of new features to throw their money at, this may give players the feeling of influence over the games direction. but that's not all, Free Players can also Participate, they gather resources and materials, or credits, from common to rare and Donate it towards the Crowdfunding goal of their choosing. when the crowdfunding has been successful, the Donated Resources of the Free Players are Spread to the Paying players. this way free players can sweeten the pot and feel like they have influence while the sweetened Pot gets the Payers to Pony up more Dough.
Likes:
NitroMidgets
they're nice, yes. at the same time it is a tricky balance to make them often enough that people actually get them, but not to make Players always want to sit around and wait for one before they ever spend money.
not that people shouldn't ever or anything, but you don't want to inadvertently end up discouraging people from giving you money, that's not what any business wants!
i don't think there's a true 'correct' answer to where it should land.
also i'm pretty sure i recognize that name.
not that people shouldn't ever or anything, but you don't want to inadvertently end up discouraging people from giving you money, that's not what any business wants!
i don't think there's a true 'correct' answer to where it should land.
also i'm pretty sure i recognize that name.
And then there are those who would exploit the login system for their own gain. While I could mention his name due to not being on the Warframe forums, I won't. I don't want people looking him up...
However, the Buy to Play system could deter such activity unless said person had a REALLY DEEP wallet (this brings up the memory I had of shopping in Gamestop and watching a chinese guy buy up the store's entire stock of Perfect World cards which I had been hoping to buy one of)...
However, the Buy to Play system could deter such activity unless said person had a REALLY DEEP wallet (this brings up the memory I had of shopping in Gamestop and watching a chinese guy buy up the store's entire stock of Perfect World cards which I had been hoping to buy one of)...
The thing i don't like about the B2P/F2P model is it's over reliance on cosmetics as one of the main sources of revenue. Now, the problem is that cosmetic items that are most popular in the item shop are usually ones that look ridiculous, campy and kitchy. They completely destroy the lore and visual integrity of the game.
For example, I used to play The Secret World, which was supposed to be this dark fantasy game with lovecraftian atmosphere. But as the game turned B2P, they started putting in some ridiculous immersion breaking items, like bunny slippers, speedo's, horse heads and rainbow afterburners. For me, this ruined the game.
And not to mention TERA and this bullshit:
So, since Ember is going with a B2P model, I hope that they will avoid this pitfall.
For example, I used to play The Secret World, which was supposed to be this dark fantasy game with lovecraftian atmosphere. But as the game turned B2P, they started putting in some ridiculous immersion breaking items, like bunny slippers, speedo's, horse heads and rainbow afterburners. For me, this ruined the game.
And not to mention TERA and this bullshit:
So, since Ember is going with a B2P model, I hope that they will avoid this pitfall.
Likes:
Mizogin