Expedite game production pls

[Silv3r Shadow]

Hi, im Silv3r Shadow, some of you know me. If you've never seen me post, just believe me that i am very supportive of this game and want the best for it. I love the community and Grummz, but hear me out. no complaints at anyone personally or the devs or community staff and friends, but:

Today my complaint for complaint department is the slow development and updates.

yes, of course im not the first to bring this up. but even there comes a time when the most loyal fans like myself get a bit anxious. what is my goal? i want the game as much as you guys do, and i would like it to be made, or at least start production (post-kickstarter)

1. Development '''seems''' like it has gone snail pace.

2. half a year delayed roadmap

3. Still no kickstarter

4. Maintenance mode updates

5. lack of forum updates
.a) Last Em-8er news - 2 months ago
.b) Em-8ER Art & Design Updates - 8 months ago
.c) Grummz last forum post - 7 months ago
.d)Private Subscription Forum - 3 years ago

6. the forums was created almost 7 years ago. (firefall lived only 7 years, meaning. i know some of you for over 12 years now). our hopes can only last for so long:
.a) the longer the game in development the worse publicity
.b)people will label the game a 'Star Citizen' or 'Chronicles of elyria' (will be a great youtube/media scoop) and hurt its reputation, bad publicity, loss of supporters and kill this game before getting anywhere.

7. Long term sustainability of development in general not viable.

8. Hiding behind the 'only 5 devs part time' excuse forever.

Im not wanting my hand to be held with the development of the game, but i believe these points are valid and have some weight to them with perspective. Im wanting to create discussion without anyone being an ember andy, i am very passionate and supportive of this game,

But, i have good points, email update consistency is great, same for the artwork for skins, even the Collab.

My suggestions?
- i believe communication by official means is important. even a list of updates and changes added.
- We have a great foundation of game assets, concept art, lore etc, and i know its all being ported over to UE5, but a roadmap will do well.
- Hire a few more devs to make it a playable mockup to get the kickstarter ball rolling.

Thank you for reading that all
cheers, Silv3r

 

[Skube]

I agree with everything you say and I'll add that:

1.The Home Demo while not essential to KS was supposed to be out over a year ago and we really didn't get an update on it since Ricardo completed his move.
2.The "We're shifting the Focus to Mecha" that was over a month ago has been said in the past (Around when the Bunny 3D model was revealed Last Year) and what we got is Grummz Doubling Down on skins with the collab with a "niche well loved IP" that has nothing to do with 2 out of the 3 pillars of the game (one of them being Mecha). Why is it going to be different this time? And the statement in it of itself is incredibly vague. Can we get a solid goal for what the Devs are working towards in the immediate future at the very least?
3. To someone who knows nothing about game dev it seems like we've being toying around with random stuff (The Nanite/Voxel Builds) for the past year almost.
4. The last major step we've made was the 64 Square KM Build which had the first iteration of the complete mining encounter (It actually felt like we're really close to KS).
5. The Plasma Cannon Model??? What's up with that it's been literal years since we've got the Plasma Cannon.
6.Music from Michael Bross???
7.The Wise Sound Engine we talked about a long time ago? I want to have all the sounds back and more.
8.The Light/Heavy/New Medium Omniframes???




I also fear that due the Subscription system's Constant Revenue stream of 7.95*1500 = $11925 a month plus pack sales and the practically non existent community Grummz has grown Carefree. While we have almost 36k members on the forums we only got a hand full of people active in the Discord/Forums (excluding Chief Chats) besides the Community Team itself, the rest are waiting for something to happen that will be worth their attention.

So what we need is as a community demand Grummz answer, cause a couple of people asking this in Chief Chat ain't enough and I do not posses the following to generate an uproar to get Grummz to talk.

*Tweaked the second point to avoid confusion

 

[Silv3r Shadow]

This:

4. The last major step we've made was the 64 Square KM Build which had the first iteration of the complete mining encounter (It actually felt like we're really close to KS).

I was amazed from the build, also very exited to see the mockup almost complete. but it stopped there. The output of work should of continued along side with the same rate of skin releases. Not skins being the only new monthly update.

Remixthis made some VERY good points in his video (which i know you've watched) (time stamped @ 6:09)
Quote(with context): "...and this is important as I dont want to be making videos on what the devs say what will be in the game, but what's actually in the game"

The plans Grummz has for the game are great. but updates is too slow, needs 2x or 3x times more development going on. Its getting dated while its being made

 

[CeasarAugustus]

i don't disagree with Neither of you. the development of Em-8er shouldn't be in this situation. i have many different issues with the project, but as the same with you, i wanted it to succeed and still do.

but things are taking too long. I feel from the updates we get is that the project is just stuck and has a brick wall in the way. like every time we move forward the project would take 3 steps back.

i remember before we went to the White box demo grummz said they started working on the environment art for Kickstarter and we haven't seen any of that from years ago. they keep switching directions always starting something new and never finishing it and not letting us know that they have pivoted the project

all I want to say, I still have hope and things can get fixed, if it has to do with getting more dev's or something in management changes.

 

[Pandagnome]

I have been asking for a visual representation of a roadmap shown somewhere in forum & discord.
Even if it has approximation on the dates, these could be moved around if needed but hopefully not so much.

The plans Grummz has for the game are great. but updates is too slow

We have to consider that some work part time while only a few work full time!
Does that mean we need to be a little more patient or does Em8er team need to search for the right extra pair of hands to help?

Music from Michael Bross???

I am anticipating how good the music is going to be, also i wonder what music Bross Boss is influenced in and enjoys hmm

So what we need is as a community demand Grummz answer, cause a couple of people asking this in Chief Chat ain't enough and I do not posses the following to generate an uproar

There is a chief chat coming on Saturday a good time to get answers!

 

[Silv3r Shadow]

Thanks for all of you being understanding and civil. To further address this, i'll touch on this point of yours panda:

We have to consider that some work part time while only a few work full time!
Does that mean we need to be a little more patient or does Em8er team need to search for the right extra pair of hands to help?

Yes! 100% there needs to be more fulltime to kinda further my no.8 point. More fulltime will have greater consistency of progress and updates. half the team cant be part-time, development of part-time employees (if it is apart of the main development team( not small systems)) caps out production from only when they have availability, and that may be a few hours in a week. or if their main job gets busy, dont have time, holidays, or life in general, we lose that production possibly missing that available development time on Em-8er, making a trickling effect of development.


With only a few full-time devs, there is too much work (obviously) and their skillsets have to cover various areas and complete work they may not be as skillful in as if there is a larger team with more members who may have those skillsets and are better fitted for that area of development.
(disclaimer: not saying this is what is going on, but these are variables to consider)

I know everyone wanted Em-8er to be ported to UE5, meaning work needed to be done to amend this change. But this cant be the catalyst of slow development over the past years.

8. Hiding behind the 'only 5 devs part time' excuse forever.

I also understand if there are delays within development, like a lot of games, however, it is a very small team trying to achieve high quallity gameplay,
With that said, if im able to to ask on behalf of everyone :

1) How long is development of Em-8er projected for/going to be?

2) Is there any intention to increase work output?

3) How far away is Kickstarter?

I'd like these 3 questions answered without the 'Soon™'

We also cant remain comfy as the Firefall fandom (us) keeping the game alive / community active for the lights to remain on for development. Yes there are new players, but this is a small stream of them, just somehow stumbling across this game. We've supported this game, and keeping on supporting it to keep development. Since indigogo M2, to now, there's bound to be half of the backers/supporters who have forgotten about this game.

There is a chief chat coming on Saturday a good time to get answers!

Unfortunately i wont be available for the next couple of Chief Chats. Im hoping this thread will generate enough visibility to devs/grummz for it to be addressed, with a solution. But i'll stay tuned, good luck to you guys

Edit:
From our emails about Saturday Chief Chat: "Don't miss it because Grummz has something rather cool to share with the community!
See you there! "

Having something new to show sounds great, but i feel like it is just going to be another niche TBA whitebox feature; of small progress just enough to stimulate dopamine exactment. Unless it blast our socks off, with a secret build that has been in development for months.
It needs to be out of whitebox, testing phase, instanced builds and be singular-further-down-the-line-kickstarter-ready-build, and out of this early Alpha limbo.

 

[Pandagnome]

Just to add the full details of the chief chat:

In the official Em-8er Discord this Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 11:00 AM PDT

I hope we will get some good answers/solutions of whats to come next, because there are some valid concerns pointed out.

It needs to be out of whitebox, testing phase,

The whitebox could be more such as put in a disco ball or something! In all seriousness though there does need to be something other than this a bike perhaps hmm hmm.

I recall Grummz mentioning that it was done so the big reveal for a surprise on the kickstarter.
So all those questions you put across are going to be well worth to understand better where we are at.

Unfortunately i wont be available for the next couple of Chief Chats. Im hoping this thread will generate enough visibility to devs/grummz for it to be addressed, with a solution. But i'll stay tuned, good luck to you guys

You might not be there but the shadow is never far behind!!

 

[Silv3r Shadow]

Yeah I wouldn't be surprised if the bikes were added, or maybe light frame, or UE5 terrain reveal.

im hoping for the THMPR encounter to be functional. The assets are there for it. models are rigged, guns shoot, abilities work, even gliding. NPC's spawn (randomly), But its missing the whole THMPR encounter. The UE5 terrain creation is super great and quick to make environment. Before we get anymore new systems like niche destructible environments etc, the focus should remain on the THMPR encounter system to actually show the game vision

All of the ideas and niche systems and nice-to-have's should come after the core system. Mark says that we're working towards the playable mockup but there is everything else being worked on at the same time, what seems like not the core THMPR encounter system at all. If these posts helps him jolt his memory incase he lost focus of every other cool thing to add, then im glad we helped steer him back on track.

again, i wont criticize without suggestions:
- Generate the UE5 terrain, like what already has been shown (or finish porting copa assets)
- Slightly improve NPC's AI
- Add THMPR HP + Resource collection Bar
- Add UI for THMPR encounter,
- Add shapeshifting/or more than the 1 enemy NPC' like Elite/larger mob/kaiju (more challenging mobs)
- Connect THMPR to the scaned/calldown area for drilling (rather than roaming)
- Create/invite Party

Optional:
- THMPR vs Kaiju combat
- Spawn in at home station
. - ODST down to planet to the map
- Resource table
- Night mode
- Environmental mobs

Then go into the niche things. Finish the playable mockup first. If the THMPR encounter isnt prioritized, the way we're heading, it will be another 2 years before the kickstarter. Im sure EM-8er in 2 years from now will look great, but ive already harped on about the prolonged development. We would like to see a playable mockup, something has to happen/change.

 

[Pandagnome]

If it takes too long this will happen to some of the community members :O

I keep thinking of what Grummz mentioned that surprise perhaps its going to be put out then... well i do hope so.

It is tricky to know what is going on behind the scenes, actually most of it is all guess work from our ends unless we see actual proof with our very eyes and to be able to do things in the demo.

Do you know what i want to hear what the team & Grummz have to say and be a bit more clear where they are. The visual representation of a roadmap could be a good thing a very good thing to refer to and see where we are and how far we have progressed since the beginning.

If they mentioned in the worst case scenario that the Bengal tiger has started playing with the computer and 60% of the work got destroyed.

I will take a economy flight to personally see this and call the fbi don't make me do this

 

[liandri]

5. lack of forum updates

D. Private Subscriber forum about the same

I could write a long post too, but this explains how I feel almost exactly:

From our emails about Saturday Chief Chat: "Don't miss it because Grummz has something rather cool to share with the community!
See you there! "

Having something new to show sounds great, but i feel like it is just going to be another niche TBA whitebox feature; of small progress just enough to stimulate dopamine exactment.

Either that, or a skin that while nice, won't do anything for a few years.

I'd like to see the roadmap soon. We've waited almost 5 years since M3, and while most are happy to wait longer, I'd be good to see how much longer we wait now and what the priorities are.

 

[Silv3r Shadow]

D. Private Subscriber forum about the same

Oops, I actually forgot to list that one in, I'll edit my OP to include it

We've waited almost 5 years since M3, and while most are happy to wait longer, I'd be good to see how much longer we wait now and what the priorities are.

I was originally one of those majority, being happy with steady progress, but since that we know how long it's been and how much left to be done, I think that myself and others haven't been voicing our opinions on it till now/recent



We can see it's come to the point now that change has to happen, the cool small honeymoon updates need to be more frequent and larger. And get back onto the good standard of forum updates

I feel like we're now way behind where were meant to be. We might as well voice our opinions now as a collective effort, for the devs/Grummz to take notice and address this issue or make changes in production

 

[Pandagnome]

Curious i see great things yet some obscured, and with our community magnifying glass we can truly see more!

I feel like we're now way behind where were meant to be. We might as well voice our opinions now as a collective effort, for the devs/Grummz to take notice and address this issue or make changes in production

Em8er Team are surely reading all this they know the situation... a reminder never hurts and somewhere in their HQ they have the Em8erbot who also helps out too.
Just like Cortana from Halo with more customization options!

We are very curious and interested in what will be said / shown in the upcoming chief chat

In the roadmap i'd also like to know of our first Em8ercon if that is ingame or actually somewhere in reality!

 

[Pandagnome]

Very very Good signs could probably be best chief chat?

- Grummz twitter more focused on gaming than political bringing more gamer appeal
- Niche Gamer would like to cover Em8er in due time
- Grummz keeping on top with his health with a good break that was needed to come back fully charged, motivated, and enlightened.
- Em8er team is expanding with more specialists, with a new addition Artist Mark C to help with kickstarter cinematic and terrian system starting May 2nd.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1464842404 Can see his work @19mins into the stream.
- Grummz also looking for Animator to animate directly to Unreal & someone who is a Hard surface modeller who specialize in machinery for mechs. Also to bring a technical Artist for model movement.
- Lump of terrain in Em8er perhaps a poop hmmm
- Grummz is skilled as the team co-coordinator to bring flow of work to take formation with good support and to better delegate work in the team.
- Great potential of voxel terrain in UE5

- Unreal engine 4 is 32 bits compared to Unreal engine 5 which is 64bit towards creating one gigantic planet all on the same planet with no zones. learned something new @Grummz
- Kickstarter minimum needed raise $500'000, to aim for $1-2million or even $5million + as @PartTimeJedi mentioned new record??
- Media kit so we can be Ambassador for Em8er to bridge and make Em8er the greatest
- Newcomer packs retiring and the Bridge funding packs arrive around May
- Triple skin this month as an apology for Grummz taking a break.
- Dev blog update will be back to share
- A special button for @Ronyn so no more individually adding packs to players coming soon!
- One topic per chief chat and new regular chief chat staying informed and staying true

 

[Silv3r Shadow]

That's really good to hear, excited for more of the same news. Glad to see it's more focused of the build for a Kickstarter. Seems like lots of things in the right direction.

Based on this news, we should hopefully expect a roadmap soon as these updates reflect where we are in development in preparation wise

 

[Pandagnome]

 

[Silv3r Shadow]

I might as well share @Skube 's video, he also showed this thread in it.

I also share the same opinions. The terrain looks nice, but hiring just the dev for the environment is only 1 aspect of the development. Many other things need to be worked on. But yes, this is a step in the right direction.

I meantioned before that:

...their skillsets have to cover various areas and complete work they may not be as skillful in as if there is a larger team with more members who may have those skillsets and are better fitted for that area of development.

Also, with the team expanding, How much by?
It will give us more confidence @Grummz
Cheers.

 

[Pandagnome]

I am glad @Skube has encouraged folks to pop by in the forum to discuss this further.

Also, with the team expanding, How much by?

That is also what i am wondering could some be hired freelancers and work for one time jobs or will there be more part time / full timer team members?

Could it depend also on the work that needs to be done at this moment versus what is still in the works until further brain storming is made clear?

I also like to see that visual representation of the Em8er Roadmap too!

 

[liandri]

Also, with the team expanding, How much by?

- Em8er team is expanding with more specialists, with a new addition Artist Mark C to help with kickstarter cinematic and terrian system starting May 2nd.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1464842404 Can see his work @19mins into the stream.
- Grummz also looking for Animator to animate directly to Unreal & someone who is a Hard surface modeller who specialize in machinery for mechs. Also to bring a technical Artist for model movement.

So that's 4, most of whom I'd guess would be part-time or on commission, which seems solid considering what they have now.

Terrain is a very big aspect of the game, and something I think needs to be done at a higher priority. This is the world that everything plays out in. Every enemy needs to competently and intelligently path around objects. Every encounter needs to take place without the terrain immediately breaking it (like spawning an encounter in the current demo can break spawns). Omniframe weapon (ie. missile swarm) and movement abilities (skimming, wall-running, surfing) need to account for terrain elements. It should feel like a young, unpredictable and inhospitable world.

That's just the mock-up. I'm not expecting a Death Stranding-like terrain though (which is what I think of when I look at EM-8ER's mountains).

Are they missing a sound engineer? Presumably there is already someone who has knowledge, but even ambient noise on the HOS will be interesting. And that assault rifle, eh.

I also like to see that visual representation of the Em8er Roadmap too!

+1, maybe before mid-year. Not sure when you American's get tax back (or if you do), but I'd have some extra funds I'd be comfortable parting with if I knew what was coming. I'd like to see a new demo (ideally of the HOS) with the male model, or a reveal of the light and/or heavy frames models, too.

 

[Pandagnome]

I am also looking out for this media kit because we can make sure that more know of Em8er and to support the progress.

You know what i'd really like a behind the scenes video and could even hide the identity of the individual. They can wear a box with a face of their choosing perhaps a waifu face, Mek face even a kaiju face etc etc hmm.

Then we can hear about their day while they use Microsoft sam or some other voice as they point out.
With official Em8er Reaper team gloves to some work that can be shown.

Perhaps this can be part of the Em8er chief chats where we get to know a different Team member each time when possible?

Then again they could just as well do this in the forum under Introducing the Em8er team
and they could also add some useless information such as having many socks with holes decided to wear another sock over their primary socks which has the holes holes so that the holes were covered by the second socks!

They could also have Under the members drop list Team so it is easier to locate the Em8er team if anyone was curious or wanted to contact them.

 

[Remixthispurple]

Thanks for linking my video. I've been quiet because I've been waiting for some content to drip so I can cover it. I missed the info from the last chiefs chat but I've been watching regularly. I'll have my next one released at the end of the month I think. Content or not. I'm getting too antzy just like you all are.