Enemy scaling

Jul 26, 2016
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#41
something i've tried to push for Warframe is Destructible Armor - for Enemies that are supposed to be Armored.
the tl;dr gist of that is many different damage zones across the body, some for increased actual Damage, others being for disablement or Et Cetera.

the important part here, is that Enemies that are intended to be more difficult, can do so without much vertical in the sense of protecting their weakpoints with Armor (exactly as it sounds, wearing Armor). but can be Damaged or destroyed with attacks, non Damaging utility things, Et Cetera.

that creates new ways you interact with Enemies, without simply making them a Bullet Sponge, perse. the same can be done with space magic as well, protective fields made out of destructible 'pieces', or whatever else.
these do make it take longer to eliminate an Enemy, but it's far more interesting a way for Enemies to 'progress' than never ending exponential increase on EHP and Damage Output(same goes for the Player in a game too ofcourse). because that's lame, and everybody knows it.

In my opinion, I find the days where enemies didn't have super long name variants and tougher enemies were simply rare as they were like deathclaws in fallout or hunters in halo in their environment made for less complaints and boredom.
aye. more difficult being because of how you interact with it and it being something different (preferably unique but that can be pretty expensive) is much more interesting.

games that are okay with meeting in the middle for practicality sake and having special variants that are different and rarer, but not completely unique, is acceptable IMO.
Eximus Units in Warframe is this middle ground for example - using art assets that already exist to speed up, but still functioning significantly differently.

elemental bullets are a stupid idea. They have nothing to do with laws of physics.
just like, the almost nothing else that has anything to do with reality in Vidjya Games?
pulling the Realism card only works if you actually want Realism. which applies to everything. if you're selectively choosing things to exclude from Realism, then it isn't Realistic and it's no different from the other games that use space magic. not that this is a problem.
 

Daynen

Active Member
Aug 3, 2016
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#43
"Brute force scaling." I like that term; that's a good term for what's being decried here. Same enemy behavior and weapon, more damage if they hit, and takes more hits to kill; eventually just becomes the norm when they show up in numbers...yeah. "Brute force scaling" is an apt term for that; thank you.

Screw brute force scaling. Give me enemies who use the terrain more defensively; give me enemies who actually learn to use more varieties of weapons; give me enemies who suddenly forego safety and charge in with a lit grenade; give me enemies that leap over cliffs to flank me; give me enemies that use group tactics and SURPRISE ME FROM TIME TO TIME.

Smarter enemies are ALWAYS more challenging than bullet sponges.
 

Vedemin

Deepscanner
Jul 27, 2016
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#45
how about non-bulletsponge-BRUTAL FORCE-enemies? like one that deals far too much dmg and can 3 hit you? :D
Nah, too hardcore for OW. We had it in DoD (but they were also bullet sponges) and it sucked. We'd have to tryhard all the time to even live. Bad idea. We need casual enemies that are interesting to fight not only because they can shred you
 

Ars Nova

Omni Ace
Omni Ace
Jul 28, 2016
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#46
Elemental bullets = bad.
Different kinds of weapons for elemental and other kinds of damage = good.
I.e. Lasers (piercing), flamethrowers (DoT/AoE), tesla gun (arcing), cryo beam(speed debuff), toxin thrower(def debuff), air cannon (knockback). Plus whatever melee variants you want.

Then, add in combination attacks / environmental buffs/debuffs.
I.e. Fire melts ice, creates water, water extends arc range of electric. (including existing bodies of water)

Water extends range (in/under water) of concussive weapons. (#physics)

Air Cannon type weapons knock enemies into the pool of acid they just dodged
>>can be used to launch debris/boost weapon projectile range/change direction. (i.e. player 1 fires toxin grenade, player 2 blasts it so it goes further/heads around a corner. Enemies unprepared for chemical damage only brace for knockback, get hit with acid.)
>>Perhaps could also be used to launch allies into the air for better strafing/assisted air control.(Or play ping pong. With your enemies as the ball.)
 
Likes: Vedemin
Jul 28, 2016
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#47
.6 and .7 (when I started playing Firefall) was a modified horizontal progression system. It work quite well (with tiers and min/max). I think some people in management thought it was too complicated for people to learn, but I totally disagree...the challenge of learning is what made it fun and engaging.
 
Likes: Krhys
#48
toxin thrower(def debuff)
Well... it seems like you dazzled "toxins" with "acid". Toxins can't reduce armor 'cause they are poisonous and not corrosive... so toxins would rather ignore the armor and directly kill the host, depending on the state they were used... if it were clouds of particles or gasses they would expand from teh lungs into other organs while fluids would take too much time...

.6 and .7 (when I started playing Firefall) was a modified horizontal progression system. It work quite well (with tiers and min/max). I think some people in management thought it was too complicated for people to learn, but I totally disagree...the challenge of learning is what made it fun and engaging.
Well... learning complex crafting is fun for me. I got an idea once 'bout a game where you could craft your gun (or the guns of others) with a certain class. And i don't mean the simple way, but the hella complex way... choosing what components you used, and even the material of teh components. Tungsten, steel, iron, what so ever, every1 had its pros, but also its drawbacks... so gaining experience from crafting is the hard part of it ^^
 

Vedemin

Deepscanner
Jul 27, 2016
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#49
Well... it seems like you dazzled "toxins" with "acid". Toxins can't reduce armor 'cause they are poisonous and not corrosive... so toxins would rather ignore the armor and directly kill the host, depending on the state they were used... if it were clouds of particles or gasses they would expand from teh lungs into other organs while fluids would take too much time...


Well... learning complex crafting is fun for me. I got an idea once 'bout a game where you could craft your gun (or the guns of others) with a certain class. And i don't mean the simple way, but the hella complex way... choosing what components you used, and even the material of teh components. Tungsten, steel, iron, what so ever, every1 had its pros, but also its drawbacks... so gaining experience from crafting is the hard part of it ^^
Heh, funny, that is exactly the same as crafting system I proposed :)
 
Jul 26, 2016
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#50
.6 and .7 (when I started playing Firefall) was a modified horizontal progression system. It work quite well (with tiers and min/max). I think some people in management thought it was too complicated for people to learn, but I totally disagree...the challenge of learning is what made it fun and engaging.
i've always found this strange - the original system didn't seem complex at all to me. it all seemed logical.
it's the systems after that seemed complex because everything was setup basically randomly, there was no logic backing it.

so instead of 'this plus that makes this' it was 'these things do many different things, buy why?'.