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Discord is a really powerful tool. I've been using it for other games a lot lately, so this is great that Ember has taken it aboard the mothership! It was a great time being a mod on there for me! There are some really cool & talented people on there that don't necessarily show themselves much on the forums. Tis a good place to network & 'meet' new players too. ha anyway, this is great news! Thanks JG & Fae!
Ever since the the take over of the Ember Discord server I have watched it go way down hill. From the trolls that want to accuse others of watching porn because there was a legit question of a technical nature, spamming the chat with the bot that is there, to now that the presidential election is over people are calling candidates being like Hitler. This not only is unacceptable but in poor taste, but the Moderator (only one is in the position), the Owner (That I have never seen loged on) and tech support has done nothing to control this. Yes free speech is an important thing, especially in the times we currently live in. I have voiced my opinion on the matter in the serer feedback and how to improve the server and the state of things. But more than likely the people that needed to see it just passed it over and and will do nothing about it. So I will do it here.
The server is poorly ran, as one person said there are "300 people" that are on the server. 3 people, Owner, 1 moderator and one tech support are in a position of authority in this server. This is poor planing and over all insufficient staffing to manage this. Before the question comes as to how I would know, or if I have done this before. Yes I have, on a professional level also. The way that this server should be ran is the owner with at least 2 to 3 assistants that can manage it for him, 4 moderators so that some one can be on on a consistent basis to help maintain the peace or answer questions that may arise. Tech support that can remain at the one person may be 3 at various times of the day so that questions can be answered if some one has them.
If this is followed, it doesn't have to be to the letter, the community will flow in conversation better. Also why hasn't information been going through the community that HAS come from DEV's. Is it that much work for a community leader and his staff can't be bothered to do it? We have left Firefall to come to Ember community because it was fracked off, dont make this community the same way.
If you are going to reply to this, fine reply, but be intelligent in your argument. I already know quite a few people that will remain nameless that agree with me and find the lack of Discord server supervision disturbing. As well as I do. Trolls need not say a damn thing because you will be promptly ignored and put on that list.
The server is poorly ran, as one person said there are "300 people" that are on the server. 3 people, Owner, 1 moderator and one tech support are in a position of authority in this server. This is poor planing and over all insufficient staffing to manage this. Before the question comes as to how I would know, or if I have done this before. Yes I have, on a professional level also. The way that this server should be ran is the owner with at least 2 to 3 assistants that can manage it for him, 4 moderators so that some one can be on on a consistent basis to help maintain the peace or answer questions that may arise. Tech support that can remain at the one person may be 3 at various times of the day so that questions can be answered if some one has them.
If this is followed, it doesn't have to be to the letter, the community will flow in conversation better. Also why hasn't information been going through the community that HAS come from DEV's. Is it that much work for a community leader and his staff can't be bothered to do it? We have left Firefall to come to Ember community because it was fracked off, dont make this community the same way.
If you are going to reply to this, fine reply, but be intelligent in your argument. I already know quite a few people that will remain nameless that agree with me and find the lack of Discord server supervision disturbing. As well as I do. Trolls need not say a damn thing because you will be promptly ignored and put on that list.
I have been part of IRC communities and ran some of them for years. None of them had 300+ members, but then again people only show up when they're actually online or have setup a bouncer and thus the activity level comes down to pretty much the same.
Now while I agree that it can be very useful to have multiple operators/moderators, I have yet to see a real issue arise on the Discord server. The points you brought up are all pretty opinionated:
Why does this need a moderator involved? Are we in kindergarten where when A says something and B says "No I did not" both run to the teacher crying? Or is it a problem because porn is involved? If someone "accuses" someone else of eating a sandwich do we also need a moderator involvement?
Bots can always be a bit of a pain, however I'd claim that this is more a bot issue than a people issue. The question is, if you don't want people to use the bot, then why is there a bot in the first place that can potentially spam the channel? If the repeated usage of the bot shouldn't be allowed then that should be configured on the bots side, so he ignores any command sent within a threshold. Usually people forget about bots for many weeks and then suddenly someone uses a command and everyone wants to try it as well or the same person wants to try different variations. Additionally it's generally enough to ask people to PM the bot, instead of spamming the channel and if someone just keeps doing it, they can always be reported and dealt with, whenever a moderator has time.
Again the question, why does that need moderator involvement? Is it a stupid thing to say? Sure, but what should a moderator do about it? Should everyone be banned that says something you don't like or get offended by? If you don't like a statement by someone, then you can either start a discussion with that person to try and show them your opinion on a topic, or you can simply ignore it and move on.
I just feel that this falls a bit into the "I'm offended" category of things and I totally hate where today's society is going with that stance. You said, you're all for free-speech, as such you have to accept that others have opinions and make statements that you might find wrongfully placed or offensive, but that alone is not reason to intervene. If you don't agree with something then there doesn't need some "higher power" to shutdown the person that said it. There doesn't need to be rules that nobody can offend anyone, since such a rule can never be enforced, because offensiveness is highly opinionated and as such the judgement would solely lie with the moderators. And yes, we had this situation before the server was handed over and it was terrible. If you stood good with the moderators, you could do and say pretty much whatever you wanted, but dare you if the mods didn't like you, you'd get circle-jerked for simply providing some feedback. And every person who has run any serious community knows that this is not how you moderate.
I can only more than agree with what Xeevis has said on the server:
And finally there are two useful things you can do:
Now while I agree that it can be very useful to have multiple operators/moderators, I have yet to see a real issue arise on the Discord server. The points you brought up are all pretty opinionated:
Why does this need a moderator involved? Are we in kindergarten where when A says something and B says "No I did not" both run to the teacher crying? Or is it a problem because porn is involved? If someone "accuses" someone else of eating a sandwich do we also need a moderator involvement?
Bots can always be a bit of a pain, however I'd claim that this is more a bot issue than a people issue. The question is, if you don't want people to use the bot, then why is there a bot in the first place that can potentially spam the channel? If the repeated usage of the bot shouldn't be allowed then that should be configured on the bots side, so he ignores any command sent within a threshold. Usually people forget about bots for many weeks and then suddenly someone uses a command and everyone wants to try it as well or the same person wants to try different variations. Additionally it's generally enough to ask people to PM the bot, instead of spamming the channel and if someone just keeps doing it, they can always be reported and dealt with, whenever a moderator has time.
Again the question, why does that need moderator involvement? Is it a stupid thing to say? Sure, but what should a moderator do about it? Should everyone be banned that says something you don't like or get offended by? If you don't like a statement by someone, then you can either start a discussion with that person to try and show them your opinion on a topic, or you can simply ignore it and move on.
I just feel that this falls a bit into the "I'm offended" category of things and I totally hate where today's society is going with that stance. You said, you're all for free-speech, as such you have to accept that others have opinions and make statements that you might find wrongfully placed or offensive, but that alone is not reason to intervene. If you don't agree with something then there doesn't need some "higher power" to shutdown the person that said it. There doesn't need to be rules that nobody can offend anyone, since such a rule can never be enforced, because offensiveness is highly opinionated and as such the judgement would solely lie with the moderators. And yes, we had this situation before the server was handed over and it was terrible. If you stood good with the moderators, you could do and say pretty much whatever you wanted, but dare you if the mods didn't like you, you'd get circle-jerked for simply providing some feedback. And every person who has run any serious community knows that this is not how you moderate.
I can only more than agree with what Xeevis has said on the server:
And finally there are two useful things you can do:
- If you see someone repeatedly trolling or similar, you can bring it up to the moderator in a private message.
- If there's one person you can't stand, but people around don't seem to mind, then you can mute said person, so you won't have to read their messages.
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What I had to say about moderation is in the #serverfeedback channel.
But to address issues you have with the bot. I have added query feature because it's useful and fun. It was always a fluid conversation of many people and wasn't spammed, it was within limits of fair usage and nobody had intent of breaking rules or disrupting the service. I was present there and didn't find anything actionable. Only when @Torgue_Joey queued lots of queries and he did so only because there was a lag and queries weren't responded to, bot tried to catch up so created a small wall of text (which @PoliceTrooper pointed out as spammy) I disabled the feature until I can fix it to prevent this unexpected behavior and as @DarkCisum points out it was indeed my fault for not having proper thresholds and timeouts on it
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But I strongly disagree that server is poorly run, that is uncalled for.
But to address issues you have with the bot. I have added query feature because it's useful and fun. It was always a fluid conversation of many people and wasn't spammed, it was within limits of fair usage and nobody had intent of breaking rules or disrupting the service. I was present there and didn't find anything actionable. Only when @Torgue_Joey queued lots of queries and he did so only because there was a lag and queries weren't responded to, bot tried to catch up so created a small wall of text (which @PoliceTrooper pointed out as spammy) I disabled the feature until I can fix it to prevent this unexpected behavior and as @DarkCisum points out it was indeed my fault for not having proper thresholds and timeouts on it
.But I strongly disagree that server is poorly run, that is uncalled for.
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I believe the two honourable gentlemen above me have expressed my views to a rather accurate extent.
Still the situation begs the question, why are you seeking feedback on and response to harmless and innocent minutes of fun I and the others have been having? My bet is that you're using this and the other situations you mentioned as scapegoat to complain about the officialisation of the server. The motive for such protesting eludes me however.
Regardless of your reasons, I'd urge you to rephrase your feedback in the future as to make it more objective. A visible prevalence of negative emotional and subjective content is likely to put off many from paying attention to your words, let alone do something about it, and go for the ignore button instead.
Still the situation begs the question, why are you seeking feedback on and response to harmless and innocent minutes of fun I and the others have been having? My bet is that you're using this and the other situations you mentioned as scapegoat to complain about the officialisation of the server. The motive for such protesting eludes me however.
Regardless of your reasons, I'd urge you to rephrase your feedback in the future as to make it more objective. A visible prevalence of negative emotional and subjective content is likely to put off many from paying attention to your words, let alone do something about it, and go for the ignore button instead.
Hello Yappy,
Thank you for taking the time to give your feedback both here and on Discord. It is unfortunate to hear that you aren't happy with some of the changes to discord. I will see if I can address at least some of your concerns.
If it seems as though the server is not being monitored I can assure that is far from the case. In addition to the two moderators, I check the server myself multiple times throughout the day and night. At times I pop on quickly (to read literally every line written since my last visit), then leave for a bit. I also spend quite a lot of time online without being visible to everyone that I am there. As of yet, I do not feel that additional moderators or moderation is necessary or beneficial. If and when we feel that time has come we will definitely act on it.
I want to be 100 percent clear when I say that I have been reading all feedback regarding the changes in the Discord server. Since the change to official I have been taking my time watching, listening, and gathering information to get a sense of what rules or format changes (if any) might need to be added or changed. I am also in contact with multiple people who voice their opinions of discord through private messages. I take everyone's feedback into account. In fact I am quite grateful that so many people care enough to be vocal and stay involved.
One thing that is most important to keep in mind is that different people will have different preferences on how discord should be run. Some will prefer more strict rules and more moderation while others will prefer less strict rules and less moderation. Our goal is not to please everyone, as that is literally impossible. Our goal is to create a vibrant, active community where free speech is welcomed. So far I think we are on the road for that.
The rules of both this forum and discord are rather lenient by design. The nature of free speech requires that. We will moderate things like personal attacks and ad hominem, but we will not moderate general interactions. Even some of the relatively awkward or somewhat uncomfortable ones. Ultimately folks will voice their various opinions about many subjects. At times each of us will find ourselves liking what we read, at time it may rub us the wrong way. In either case, these things are allowed as long as they fall within the rules.
I want to add that it is important to understand that a forum and a discord server are very different animals. For better and for worse the conversation flow of a stream of posts on discord is not going to be as structured as a forum with it's very sectioned out format. In many ways that is why we are so pleased to offer both options for our community.
On that note, our discord server currently has no rules on the subject matter that can be discussed in the main lobby. Honestly, this may or may not change at some point in the future. We shall see. For the time being, people discussing everything from other games to world events still falls within the rules as they are written.
In regards to the discord bot, it was implemented specifically to be used. Though I'd agree that there is a line between usage and spam. At one point the bot was purposefully being used in too quick succession by too many people so I asked them to stop spamming the bot, and they did. Otherwise it was being used, not spammed, and so we let it be. When a technical problem appeared with the bot Xeevis disabled it until it can be brought back up to the standards we intend for it.
Now, as for the lack of updates and new information. Well, it has been a while. For that all I can say is that more info is coming soon. So much is going on here that we look forward to sharing. Pretty soon here the new website will drop with some new stuff to talk about.
Hey, I think that the community we have here is amazing and diverse. You are a part of that. I know that sometimes things change in a way that may not fit into our preferences. I hope you stick it out with us through these things. I believe it will be worth it in the long run.
Thank you for taking the time to give your feedback both here and on Discord. It is unfortunate to hear that you aren't happy with some of the changes to discord. I will see if I can address at least some of your concerns.
If it seems as though the server is not being monitored I can assure that is far from the case. In addition to the two moderators, I check the server myself multiple times throughout the day and night. At times I pop on quickly (to read literally every line written since my last visit), then leave for a bit. I also spend quite a lot of time online without being visible to everyone that I am there. As of yet, I do not feel that additional moderators or moderation is necessary or beneficial. If and when we feel that time has come we will definitely act on it.
I want to be 100 percent clear when I say that I have been reading all feedback regarding the changes in the Discord server. Since the change to official I have been taking my time watching, listening, and gathering information to get a sense of what rules or format changes (if any) might need to be added or changed. I am also in contact with multiple people who voice their opinions of discord through private messages. I take everyone's feedback into account. In fact I am quite grateful that so many people care enough to be vocal and stay involved.
One thing that is most important to keep in mind is that different people will have different preferences on how discord should be run. Some will prefer more strict rules and more moderation while others will prefer less strict rules and less moderation. Our goal is not to please everyone, as that is literally impossible. Our goal is to create a vibrant, active community where free speech is welcomed. So far I think we are on the road for that.
The rules of both this forum and discord are rather lenient by design. The nature of free speech requires that. We will moderate things like personal attacks and ad hominem, but we will not moderate general interactions. Even some of the relatively awkward or somewhat uncomfortable ones. Ultimately folks will voice their various opinions about many subjects. At times each of us will find ourselves liking what we read, at time it may rub us the wrong way. In either case, these things are allowed as long as they fall within the rules.
I want to add that it is important to understand that a forum and a discord server are very different animals. For better and for worse the conversation flow of a stream of posts on discord is not going to be as structured as a forum with it's very sectioned out format. In many ways that is why we are so pleased to offer both options for our community.
On that note, our discord server currently has no rules on the subject matter that can be discussed in the main lobby. Honestly, this may or may not change at some point in the future. We shall see. For the time being, people discussing everything from other games to world events still falls within the rules as they are written.
In regards to the discord bot, it was implemented specifically to be used. Though I'd agree that there is a line between usage and spam. At one point the bot was purposefully being used in too quick succession by too many people so I asked them to stop spamming the bot, and they did. Otherwise it was being used, not spammed, and so we let it be. When a technical problem appeared with the bot Xeevis disabled it until it can be brought back up to the standards we intend for it.
Now, as for the lack of updates and new information. Well, it has been a while. For that all I can say is that more info is coming soon. So much is going on here that we look forward to sharing. Pretty soon here the new website will drop with some new stuff to talk about.
Hey, I think that the community we have here is amazing and diverse. You are a part of that. I know that sometimes things change in a way that may not fit into our preferences. I hope you stick it out with us through these things. I believe it will be worth it in the long run.
What I had to say about moderation is in the #serverfeedback channel.
But to address issues you have with the bot. I have added query feature because it's useful and fun. It was always a fluid conversation of many people and wasn't spammed, it was within limits of fair usage and nobody had intent of breaking rules or disrupting the service. I was present there and didn't find anything actionable. Only when @Torgue_Joey queued lots of queries and he did so only because there was a lag and queries weren't responded to, bot tried to catch up so created a small wall of text (which @PoliceTrooper pointed out as spammy) I disabled the feature until I can fix it to prevent this unexpected behavior and as @DarkCisum points out it was indeed my fault for not having proper thresholds and timeouts on it.
But I strongly disagree that server is poorly run, that is uncalled for.
But to address issues you have with the bot. I have added query feature because it's useful and fun. It was always a fluid conversation of many people and wasn't spammed, it was within limits of fair usage and nobody had intent of breaking rules or disrupting the service. I was present there and didn't find anything actionable. Only when @Torgue_Joey queued lots of queries and he did so only because there was a lag and queries weren't responded to, bot tried to catch up so created a small wall of text (which @PoliceTrooper pointed out as spammy) I disabled the feature until I can fix it to prevent this unexpected behavior and as @DarkCisum points out it was indeed my fault for not having proper thresholds and timeouts on it
.But I strongly disagree that server is poorly run, that is uncalled for.
DOES THAT MEAN I CAN GET A "EMBER_BOT DEMOLATOR"? I HOPE I CAN.
*BACKGROUNDEXPLOSION*
WEEBLYBEEBLYMEEDLYMEOWWOWOWEEEOWWWWWWOOOOOOO
Who Let the TORQUE Out?? Who Who Who! Who! Who!
But Seriously, I keep hearing the EM8ER Discord Server has Gone to Crap, I left for other reasons *sorry Grummz it was too Blah Blah in there* I'm happy to read the forums and watch all the cool stuff You *Grummz* & SoloJoe are doing. Itching to get my hands on your first Alpha and Bug *BUG report* the be-jesus all of the devs again.. lol
*I was hated for these Bug Reports, too much Detail they Said*.
Try not to out Stress Your Selves as we don't need Buggered Dev's Lying on the Floor or Catching Keyboard Dreams ROFL.
But Seriously, I keep hearing the EM8ER Discord Server has Gone to Crap, I left for other reasons *sorry Grummz it was too Blah Blah in there* I'm happy to read the forums and watch all the cool stuff You *Grummz* & SoloJoe are doing. Itching to get my hands on your first Alpha and Bug *BUG report* the be-jesus all of the devs again.. lol
*I was hated for these Bug Reports, too much Detail they Said*.
Try not to out Stress Your Selves as we don't need Buggered Dev's Lying on the Floor or Catching Keyboard Dreams ROFL.
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