HRV (Hyper Reality Vision) is actually core mechanic of the game. Some people hate it, some people love it, but it does add a new twist to the standard shooter gameplay. I think it adds quite a bit of depth, as there are few machines that you can use to avoid been seeing in HRV. Furthermore it also funny when people start to rely on HRV so much that they get seriously spooked when you get close to them without then noticing you.
It's definitely something that takes skill to master and to use properly.
As far as shitty spawns, well, I have played very few games that haven't had that problem. It mostly depends on the map and the game mode though, if you are playing death match on a tiny map, you gonna have bad spawns no matter what you do.
But anyways, Blacklight has its positives and negatives, and it use to be much better, hopefully they will get that game up to speed again, sooner than later.
(Btw my in game name there is also Vladplaya, feel free to add me if you still play it
)
It's definitely something that takes skill to master and to use properly.
As far as shitty spawns, well, I have played very few games that haven't had that problem. It mostly depends on the map and the game mode though, if you are playing death match on a tiny map, you gonna have bad spawns no matter what you do.
But anyways, Blacklight has its positives and negatives, and it use to be much better, hopefully they will get that game up to speed again, sooner than later.
(Btw my in game name there is also Vladplaya, feel free to add me if you still play it
)
Already deleted the game and that Arc installer crap it came with.
I know it's not going to happen, but I think balancing for PvP is way to go. Especially with mostly horizontal progression.
To many mmos make mistake of making it sound like every player is a walking god and savior of the realm, and they have to become super powerful. Which results in insane AoE and other skill spam at the end game, because that's what players expect.
If you treat everyone like average scrub mercenary, like we are going to be in Ember, then there is no reason for people to expect to act like they are gods on earth, by the end game. Yeah your equipment can get little bit better, you will have more options for diverse gameplay, but nobody should really have insane over kill abilities. And this is how it is in most shooter PvP games, Battlefield, Planetside whatever.
Also if they balance for PvP now, it will be easier to add it later. And it won't be like Warframe where game is getting really stale now with so much focus on PvE, while devs having hard time doing anything with PvP because some frames have skills that are too op or useless in pvp.
Anyways last time I talked to Grumms about PvP on Discord, he wasn't really fond of the idea. But I think it would be a huge missed opportunity if it will not be in Ebert, they will be turning away a lot of potential players, and not using great opportunity of the gameplay based on horizontal progression.
You only can kill mindless computer for so long before you will start wondering "wouldn't it be freaking cool if we could go to war with each other using all these cool frames, guns and vehicles?" It's going to happen, probably sooner than later too.
But we will see what future will bring.
To many mmos make mistake of making it sound like every player is a walking god and savior of the realm, and they have to become super powerful. Which results in insane AoE and other skill spam at the end game, because that's what players expect.
If you treat everyone like average scrub mercenary, like we are going to be in Ember, then there is no reason for people to expect to act like they are gods on earth, by the end game. Yeah your equipment can get little bit better, you will have more options for diverse gameplay, but nobody should really have insane over kill abilities. And this is how it is in most shooter PvP games, Battlefield, Planetside whatever.
Also if they balance for PvP now, it will be easier to add it later. And it won't be like Warframe where game is getting really stale now with so much focus on PvE, while devs having hard time doing anything with PvP because some frames have skills that are too op or useless in pvp.
Anyways last time I talked to Grumms about PvP on Discord, he wasn't really fond of the idea. But I think it would be a huge missed opportunity if it will not be in Ebert, they will be turning away a lot of potential players, and not using great opportunity of the gameplay based on horizontal progression.
You only can kill mindless computer for so long before you will start wondering "wouldn't it be freaking cool if we could go to war with each other using all these cool frames, guns and vehicles?" It's going to happen, probably sooner than later too.
But we will see what future will bring.
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MattHunX
Hi guys.
Digging into this would be a long subject but to keep it short let me just say...
Balance is a key component to just about any game regardless of whether it is pve or pvp.
Though it is important to note that pve and pvp have some very heavy difference in how you approach that balance.
Ember is being developed as a pve only game. So the balance will be based on that design directive.
If and when Grummz ever decides to build a pvp component for Ember it will be well after the pve aspect is alive and kicking.
Moreover it will be a very separate mode, with it's own style of balance.
Digging into this would be a long subject but to keep it short let me just say...
Balance is a key component to just about any game regardless of whether it is pve or pvp.
Though it is important to note that pve and pvp have some very heavy difference in how you approach that balance.
Ember is being developed as a pve only game. So the balance will be based on that design directive.
If and when Grummz ever decides to build a pvp component for Ember it will be well after the pve aspect is alive and kicking.
Moreover it will be a very separate mode, with it's own style of balance.
Just curious...
You know how in Firefall, when one transitioned from one zone to another, their level and power-rating was brought down and capped at a certain point.
Wouldn't it be possible to have such a system take over and control a strictly PvP room. We'd be messing around in PvE and someone said "Let's do some PvP death-matches" or whatever and they'd queue for an instance-like room, where upon entering their stats, multipliers, abilities...etc. would be re-calculated and modified by a different set of scripts or algorithms or whatever to convert everyone's character to the PvP environment, as long as they remain in that room.
You know how in Firefall, when one transitioned from one zone to another, their level and power-rating was brought down and capped at a certain point.
Wouldn't it be possible to have such a system take over and control a strictly PvP room. We'd be messing around in PvE and someone said "Let's do some PvP death-matches" or whatever and they'd queue for an instance-like room, where upon entering their stats, multipliers, abilities...etc. would be re-calculated and modified by a different set of scripts or algorithms or whatever to convert everyone's character to the PvP environment, as long as they remain in that room.
It's like having two games that are not related other than sharing some assets... Very cliche, very boring, never really works out that well.
It's like let's have this vast world with horizontal progression that is used in pretty much all pvp shooters... but let's not allow pvp player to use any of that, and instead pigeonhole them into some tacked on shitty arena mode. Because that has never been done before. *Sigh*
Maybe if there was a game that was doing something very different from everything else and their developers had balls to make pve and pvp work well in the same world?
I remember when FireFall was balancing it's PvE for PvP, it worked perfectly fine, the only problem was all the mmo players were crying how they don't feel powerful, because majority of them had no clue what horizontal progression was all about and they were expecting WoW with guns.
Well I guess, we will have Planetside for massive scale PvP, and Ember for massive scale PvE, and maybe someday someone will make an awesome game were two can work together in the same world
It's like let's have this vast world with horizontal progression that is used in pretty much all pvp shooters... but let's not allow pvp player to use any of that, and instead pigeonhole them into some tacked on shitty arena mode. Because that has never been done before. *Sigh*
Maybe if there was a game that was doing something very different from everything else and their developers had balls to make pve and pvp work well in the same world?
I remember when FireFall was balancing it's PvE for PvP, it worked perfectly fine, the only problem was all the mmo players were crying how they don't feel powerful, because majority of them had no clue what horizontal progression was all about and they were expecting WoW with guns.
Well I guess, we will have Planetside for massive scale PvP, and Ember for massive scale PvE, and maybe someday someone will make an awesome game were two can work together in the same world
If you have any realistic thoughts of perhaps adding PvP to a game veing build first and foremost for PvE it is even more tricky and limits some PvE potential in the process.
Best way to create PvP and PvE is to create two different settings and characters for each; by that I mean you make a PvP template with its own stats that be modified so it does not effect PvE performance. There should be a base set of stats and abilities modifed by these stats so adjustments can be made on an abilityby ability or weapon by weapon basis. Gear should have zero impact in PvP to provide even playing field and to allowe skill to reign and not gear power.
Never should PvE and PvP mix. Division Dark Zone anyone? The single most frustrating thing for many players is being negatively effected by things they never even touch.
WoW recently implemented PvP templates based on class and specialization. You can run around in battlegrounds wearing nothing but a weapon and be as effective as the player next you in full gear. If one ability is too much they adjust it and it only effects PvP. If one class spec is underperforming they now simply adjust some modifiers or add more base levels of the primary stat.
TLDR; It isn't about just leveling off power but creating an infrastructure to allow full control over every aspect of the characters so knobs and levers can be moved as needed to achieve balance without causing ill effect PvP to PvE or PvE to PvP.
Best way to create PvP and PvE is to create two different settings and characters for each; by that I mean you make a PvP template with its own stats that be modified so it does not effect PvE performance. There should be a base set of stats and abilities modifed by these stats so adjustments can be made on an abilityby ability or weapon by weapon basis. Gear should have zero impact in PvP to provide even playing field and to allowe skill to reign and not gear power.
Never should PvE and PvP mix. Division Dark Zone anyone? The single most frustrating thing for many players is being negatively effected by things they never even touch.
WoW recently implemented PvP templates based on class and specialization. You can run around in battlegrounds wearing nothing but a weapon and be as effective as the player next you in full gear. If one ability is too much they adjust it and it only effects PvP. If one class spec is underperforming they now simply adjust some modifiers or add more base levels of the primary stat.
TLDR; It isn't about just leveling off power but creating an infrastructure to allow full control over every aspect of the characters so knobs and levers can be moved as needed to achieve balance without causing ill effect PvP to PvE or PvE to PvP.
Maybe, maybe not. It largely depends on how different the loadouts for pvp and pve really are.
There are different schools of thought on this issue. Grummz stance on it is that trying to balance for both pvp and pve on the same character for this type of game is too problematic.
It's like having two games that are not related other than sharing some assets... Very cliche, very boring, never really works out that well.
It's like let's have this vast world with horizontal progression that is used in pretty much all pvp shooters... but let's not allow pvp player to use any of that, and instead pigeonhole them into some tacked on shitty arena mode. Because that has never been done before. *Sigh*
Maybe if there was a game that was doing something very different from everything else and their developers had balls to make pve and pvp work well in the same world?
I remember when FireFall was balancing it's PvE for PvP, it worked perfectly fine, the only problem was all the mmo players were crying how they don't feel powerful, because majority of them had no clue what horizontal progression was all about and they were expecting WoW with guns.
Well I guess, we will have Planetside for massive scale PvP, and Ember for massive scale PvE, and maybe someday someone will make an awesome game were two can work together in the same world
It's like let's have this vast world with horizontal progression that is used in pretty much all pvp shooters... but let's not allow pvp player to use any of that, and instead pigeonhole them into some tacked on shitty arena mode. Because that has never been done before. *Sigh*
Maybe if there was a game that was doing something very different from everything else and their developers had balls to make pve and pvp work well in the same world?
I remember when FireFall was balancing it's PvE for PvP, it worked perfectly fine, the only problem was all the mmo players were crying how they don't feel powerful, because majority of them had no clue what horizontal progression was all about and they were expecting WoW with guns.
Well I guess, we will have Planetside for massive scale PvP, and Ember for massive scale PvE, and maybe someday someone will make an awesome game were two can work together in the same world
Division is just a shitty game with bunch of design choices that clearly were hastily thrown in just so the game can be shipped on time. That game was simply overhyped, and is poor example for anything.
Like I said FireFall was balancing for PvP for sometime, and it worked pretty well.
WoW has to do that because it's stat base mmo, this is the only way they can make it work (and there are numerous mmos that have been doing this long before WoW too). They have to have something to equalize the power difference.
Ember is not going to be typical mmo. It will have horizontal progression, meaning that level 1 character is not going to be that far behind max level character.
So there is no point in making another layer of stats for pvp, because the nature of the game is already set everything to where players will be pretty close in power no matter how long they have been playing.
The only Real problem would be behavior of some skills. Obviously an AoE skill that can be cast by a single person and it's strong enough to incinerate large group of enemies, would be a problem when is used against other players, especially if there are say couple dozen of people using it at the same time.
So you simply have such skills do less damage, or have lesser effect when used on the playres. A stun shot can freeze a low grade AI for ten seconds, but it would only freeze a player for 2.
And that's how everything should be balanced, so skills would simply be less effective against real players, because we are staying omni frames that are protected against our own weapons. You wouldn't have to change between PvP or PvE sets, you just use whatever you want and learn how whatever equipment and abilities you are using behave when used against other players.
Also I just want to make it clear here that I am not asking for all out open world pvp, where people can get ganked and griefed. There has to be system in place that would prevent any of that, of course.
But my point is that, yes balancing pvp and pve in one world is difficult, but so as hundreds other things that comprise a successful game. Heck making a shooter mmo with horizontal progression sounds pretty tough, but here we are.
Like I said FireFall was balancing for PvP for sometime, and it worked pretty well.
WoW has to do that because it's stat base mmo, this is the only way they can make it work (and there are numerous mmos that have been doing this long before WoW too). They have to have something to equalize the power difference.
Ember is not going to be typical mmo. It will have horizontal progression, meaning that level 1 character is not going to be that far behind max level character.
So there is no point in making another layer of stats for pvp, because the nature of the game is already set everything to where players will be pretty close in power no matter how long they have been playing.
The only Real problem would be behavior of some skills. Obviously an AoE skill that can be cast by a single person and it's strong enough to incinerate large group of enemies, would be a problem when is used against other players, especially if there are say couple dozen of people using it at the same time.
So you simply have such skills do less damage, or have lesser effect when used on the playres. A stun shot can freeze a low grade AI for ten seconds, but it would only freeze a player for 2.
And that's how everything should be balanced, so skills would simply be less effective against real players, because we are staying omni frames that are protected against our own weapons. You wouldn't have to change between PvP or PvE sets, you just use whatever you want and learn how whatever equipment and abilities you are using behave when used against other players.
Also I just want to make it clear here that I am not asking for all out open world pvp, where people can get ganked and griefed. There has to be system in place that would prevent any of that, of course.
But my point is that, yes balancing pvp and pve in one world is difficult, but so as hundreds other things that comprise a successful game. Heck making a shooter mmo with horizontal progression sounds pretty tough, but here we are.
Don't get me started on The Division. Especially now that the only person who was ever helpful on their forums (a CM) is leaving the company.
Now they want to finally put up a test server so we can do what they never bothered to do prior to launch and for the first six months it was out.
I will leave the debating about balancing PVP and PVE to others with the strength of a god as I get angry too quickly with it. I honestly never expect it to work out correctly because history has demonstrated for me that it pretty much fails, every time.
Sex Panther and balancing, 100% of the time it works none of the time.
Now they want to finally put up a test server so we can do what they never bothered to do prior to launch and for the first six months it was out.
I will leave the debating about balancing PVP and PVE to others with the strength of a god as I get angry too quickly with it. I honestly never expect it to work out correctly because history has demonstrated for me that it pretty much fails, every time.
Sex Panther and balancing, 100% of the time it works none of the time.
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DARKB1KE