Age range of characters in game

[Omnires]

For some of you who knew me from the old Fire Fall days knows that is one of the pet peeves of mine. That is the lack of children characters in games. It really annoys me and breaks my immersion when the whole world is full of only adults without a hint that a child or baby exist anywhere. Even if you just say something like all the children along to with other noncombatants are placed in well guarded hidden locations, there still should be hints that they exist somewhere. Like some NPCs showing off images of their families, or talking about how badly they want to see their kids again the next time they are on leave, or how some mothers and fathers will keep a small toy, doll, or something their kid give them as good luck charm. And if you go the rout of having children show up in the game they should act like children not just be like mini adults. Because even the most mature children still act like children because of how the mind and body grows over time.

There has only been a few games I've seen that put any real thought into the idea of child characters. For example in one game some of the characters you could play as are children and even though they had some of the same skills like the adults, their skills and abilities was different to reflect the fact that their minds and bodies are not fully developed yet. One explain being a boy who was about the age of 10 years being one of the melee fighters. He had all of the same basic melee fighter skills as the adults that didn't relay on pure physical power and size to work (because he is nowhere near the physical strength and size of an adult) but he did have a lot of two handed sword skills even though he couldn't use two handed swords. Now some of you might think "Why would they give this character so many two handed sword skills if he can't use two handed swords?" that is because the devs toke in the fact of his size. You see that character had a passive ability that only children could have, the ability to use one handed weapons as if they were two handed weapons. And when you played as him that is what he did. Because the weapons in that game didn't change size with the character models, when you give him an sword that an adult can use with one hand easily you would quickly note how big and heavy the sword would be for a child given that it would be much larger to him relative in size and he would need to use two hands to hold it just from the size and weight of the blade alone. It was little details like that which made me know that the devs put a lot of thought into their characters and world building.

What are your idea on the subject? Should we be putting more thought into the impact children would have on the story and the world of the game? And in what ways should we go about it? I feel that this an important topic to think about even if it is just for the sake of immersion and world building.

For the TLDR people. This video gives a basic idea.

 

[Wyntyr]

I wouldn't necessarily be put off by children being talked about in Em.8ER lore or even if we see them on a spaceship/space station where families are located. Perhaps if NPC's are added to fully constructed bases, that you may have to save as the Tsi-Hu and Kaiju attack, that could be a place to see children. IMO that should be about the most of it for this style of game and I'm a no go for children Reapers. Leave the fighting and dying for the adults (young to old)...in Em.8ER. Good thread btw. This isn't a topic that's talked about often.

 

[Maven]

In short: No, bad idea. And that's just my opinion.

The long of it: This is a high stakes war. A world in which danger is at every corner and a firefight can break out at any moment. Allowing the creation of an underage character brings in several issues to deal with, not least of which is portraying the death of the character. In all likelihood, you would have one or the other authority on your back for such depictions in a game that's accessible to everyone. Then there is the potential backlash for 'sexualization' or 'putting underage characters into dangerous situations'. And to be quite honest, even if the game would prevent any such depictions, there are 'less savoury' individuals out there, that would find some way to do so. And that is a risk no developer is willing to take.

The simple problem is that allowing the creation of underage characters is going to impose massive restrictions on the content of the game and the creative variety within it. Ever wondered why children are unkillable in Skyrim? And any mod that may involve children are heavily moderated and scrutinized before being allowed through? Violence against underage characters is frowned upon everywhere. The handicaps would be far too severe.

Child characters, that have an impact on the world and the setting, are used in several games, though. Most of them, however, story-centric RPGs. In such a setting a child character is often used to create poignant/emotional scenarios (remember Sarah? Joel's daughter in The Last of Us. Took a while for me to get over that scene). Or they can play a significant role as a supporting character (most recently the 'boy' from God of War). Or they could be part of a 'story gimmick'. Firefall was to have a very significant child character (the little girl in the Star Chamber). But quite often that's what it is limited to. And quite honestly it should remain that way.

There just seems to be no reason to shoehorn the 'creation' of a child character into a game, just because. It does not add anything to the world or the setting and often simply detracts from it. To be honest, seeing a child run around shooting 10 foot tall aliens would take away any immersion I would have.

As a presence in the game, of course yes. These are healthy adults travelling together. Having no children around would make little sense. But that should be limited to appearances in the bases or the mothership.

 

[Omnires]

I wouldn't necessarily be put off by children being talked about in Em.8ER lore or even if we see them on a spaceship/space station where families are located. Perhaps if NPC's are added to fully constructed bases, that you may have to save as the Tsi-Hu and Kaiju attack, that could be a place to see children. IMO that should be about the most of it for this style of game and I'm a no go for children Reapers. Leave the fighting and dying for the adults (young to old)...in Em.8ER. Good thread btw. This isn't a topic that's talked about often.

I'm with you too. There is not need for child combatants in the game. Keep them inside the space ships/stations and back line bases far away from any combat zones. But still have the effects of their existence reach the front lines in different ways. Like having some NPCs get calls from home of their kids telling them how much the love them and to come home safe. Or have NPCs and players get gifts from the children as they send out care packages to all the people fighting on the front to cheer them on.

You can even have some powerful sad moments in the game's story when you take upon yourself to deliver a gift to a child that their parent was saving for them because they didn't survival the battle. Or powerfully happy moments by having a child send you a thank you message for saving their parent's life a battle.

And if we could go to those ships, stations, or bases it would be nice to see the kids playing around, going to school, and stuff like normal. To help give a sense that life goes on even after an disaster and reminds you of what you are really fighting for.

 

[Omnires]

In short: No, bad idea. And that's just my opinion.

The long of it: This is a high stakes war. A world in which danger is at every corner and a firefight can break out at any moment. Having a child character brings in several issues to deal with, not least of which is portraying the death of the character. In all likelihood, you would have one or the other authority on your back for such depictions in a game that's accessible to everyone. Then there is the potential backlash for 'sexualization' or 'putting underage characters into dangerous situations'. And to be quite honest, even if the game would prevent any such depictions, there are 'less savoury' individuals out there, that would find some way to do so. And that is a risk no developer is willing to take.

The simple problem is that allowing the creation of underage characters is going to impose massive restrictions on the content of the game and the creative variety within it. Ever wondered why children are unkillable in Skyrim? And any mod that may involve children are heavily moderated and scrutinized before being allowed through? Violence against underage characters is frowned upon everywhere. The handicaps would be far too severe.

Child characters, that have an impact on the world and the setting, are used in several games, though. Most of them, however, story-centric RPGs. In such a setting a child character is often used to create poignant/emotional scenarios (remember Sarah? Joel's daughter in The Last of Us. Took a while for me to get over that scene). Or they can play a significant role as a supporting character (most recently the 'boy' from God of War). Or they could be part of a 'story gimmick'. Firefall was to have a very significant child character (the little girl in the Star Chamber). But quite often that's what it is limited to. And quite honestly it should remain that way.

There just seems to be no reason to shoehorn the 'creation' of a child character into a game, just because. It does not add anything to the world or the setting and often simply detracts from it. To be honest, seeing a child run around shooting 10 foot tall aliens would take away any immersion I would have.

As a presence in the game, of course yes. These are healthy adults travelling together. Having no children around would make little sense. But that should be limited to appearances in the bases or the mothership.

I agree with you there. There is not need to make child characters be fighters in this game. Unless the devs want to help point out the fact that sadly child soldiers do exist in real life, but this is not that kind of game. So all the kids should limited to only showing up in safe places far from any combat, even if they have to live off world.

Although I could see some people creating an childlike A.i. for their mecha to help keep their spirits up after all the fighting. As there are some personalities types that do really will when they have a sense to protect and care for something other than themselves. This is also part of the reason why in real life some people will do things like name and give personalities to stuff like their cars. After all, have you ever met anyone who called something like their car, cellphone, gun, or computer as their "baby"? Those same type of people would exist in a future where A.I. are common place. So it would make sense for some people to have an A.I. that they would have a kind of familial bond with, be it paternal or maternal. (Just had a flash back to games like Zone of the Enders where your bond with the A.I.s was part to the story).

Plus I feel creatively it would give the devs more options both in story telling and in design by keeping in mind that children do exist in the world. For example, what if I wanted to put chibi character decals on my mecha or make my mecha look like a chibi character? Sure it would feel out of place in a reality where only adults exist, but not for one where kids existed. Or making mecha designs that would appeal mostly to kids, because those models are used in things like military shows put on for the people back at home. Think of things like air shows the military has ever so often and of groups like the Blue Angels.

 

[Maven]

Although I could see some people creating an childlike A.i. for their mecha to help keep their spirits up after all the fighting. As there are some personalities types that do really will when they have a sense to protect and care for something other than themselves. This is also part of the reason why in real life some people will do things like name and give personalities to stuff like their cars. After all, have you ever met anyone who called something like their car, cellphone, gun, or computer as their "baby"? Those same type of people would exist in a future where A.I. are common place. So it would make sense for some people to have an A.I. that they would have a kind of familial bond with, be it paternal or maternal. (Just had a flash back to games like Zone of the Enders where your bond with the A.I.s was part to the story).

Interaction with AI's is absolutely a fun approach. In fact, Em-8ER seems to have taken steps towards the same, by giving 'character' to the THMPRs, and more importantly, the OP-AI for the omniframes. While it may not be as detailed or expressive as the Tachikoma from the GitS universe (I adore those fellas), it sure does bring a little variety into everyday gameplay. Perhaps, down the road, we could have even more customization options open up.

 

[Torgue_Joey]

I ALREADY ASKED GRUMMZ AWHILE BACK.
THERE WILL BE NO KIDS WALKING AROUND.

 

[Torgue_Joey]

Plus I feel creatively it would give the devs more options both in story telling and in design by keeping in mind that children do exist in the world. For example, what if I wanted to put chibi character decals on my mecha or make my mecha look like a chibi character? Sure it would feel out of place in a reality where only adults exist, but not for one where kids existed. Or making mecha designs that would appeal mostly to kids, because those models are used in things like military shows put on for the people back at home. Think of things like air shows the military has ever so often and of groups like the Blue Angels.

WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT? NOTHING.

YOU ARE A WAR HERO.
YOU SAVED PEOPLE ASSES.
YOU DEFEND AND PROTECT THE GATESTRIDER FUTURE.
IT'S UNAVOIDABLE THAT ONE DAY EVEN THE KIDS WILL LOOK UP TO YOU AS A HERO.

BE FLASHY, BE COOL, AND EXPLOSIVELY CHILD FRIENDLY.
THEY CERTAINLY WANT AN ACTION TOY OF YOU.

 

[Drakin5]

Does this include Tsi-hu and kaiju children?
*tries to consult the legal system if Tsi-hu and kaiju trafficking is allowed*

 

[Pandagnome]

Just to note warframe have the operator as a child and it is done well.

here is an article of child characters
https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news...in_a_tragic_situation_in_This_War_Of_Mine.php

&
In the virtual world called secondlife
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Child_Avatar


Pros for child av's
- There are others younger that the parents have left in the sky city
- They are seen as vulnerable but yet smaller statue could be good for hiding or recon.
- They are seen to be up to mischief tricking vendor owners to create their own machines!
- They could get lost in the city and must use your detective skills for clues in locating the child/childrens

Cons for child av's
- perhaps more drama
- image of av shown in a dis-respective way
- Moderators would have more to do
- forms of bullying could occur


Games are played by children and adults the issue is the intent of the player and sometimes this is tough to recognize but then i can argue that some families play games together in a safe manner.

End of the day it is up to the dev's!

 

[Pandagnome]

Does this include Tsi-hu and kaiju children?

& child mech?

 

[Omnires]

WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT? NOTHING.

YOU ARE A WAR HERO.
YOU SAVED PEOPLE ASSES.
YOU DEFEND AND PROTECT THE GATESTRIDER FUTURE.
IT'S UNAVOIDABLE THAT ONE DAY EVEN THE KIDS WILL LOOK UP TO YOU AS A HERO.

BE FLASHY, BE COOL, AND EXPLOSIVELY CHILD FRIENDLY.
THEY CERTAINLY WANT AN ACTION TOY OF YOU.

And think of how it could be if the NPCs could remember your actions and choices in missions and events. What if you could gain different types of reputations with the NPCs? It would be nice to go into a shop for some upgrades to my mecha and have the shop owner recognize me while being aware of my reputation. That could make them do things like give me a discount or tell me about items that are not on the market (in some games there are NPCs with different hidden items that they only sell to players who they like. So you have to build up a relationship with the NPC to gain access to those hidden special items.). It would make the game feel more alive when the things you say and do matter as well as effect how the NPCs can view and treat you.

Example;
I go into a waiting room before a meeting about the next mission I was assigned to. In the room one of the soldiers there recognize my name then tells me how much their kid loves the stories about how I protected a whole outpost by myself while being out numbered. Or how I delivered much needed food and medicine in record time between settlements after an massive earthquake as well as helped to look for survivors. And so they ask me to make a recorded message on their communicator that they can send to their kid for them cool parent points.

Example;
I walk in to a parts shop and the shopkeeper knows who I am. They ask if they can take a selfie with me to place on the wall of fame in the shop and to show their kids back home. And in return they'll give to a discount on what I was going to buy.

Children don't have to actually be in the game to have an effect on both the game play and story. Think of all the different lines and options NPCs could give players just based on their past actions and reputation. How would events and side missions change the dialog between NPCs and players from when a child friend player does it vs an edgelord player doing it? The possibilities are endless.

 

[Pandagnome]

And think of how it could be if the NPCs could remember your actions and choices in missions and events. What if you could gain different types of reputations with the NPCs? It would be nice to go into a shop for some upgrades to my mecha and have the shop owner recognize me while being aware of my reputation. That could make them do things like give me a discount or tell me about items that are not on the market (in some games there are NPCs with different hidden items that they only sell to players who they like. So you have to build up a relationship with the NPC to gain access to those hidden special items.). It would make the game feel more alive when the things you say and do matter as well as effect how the NPCs can view and treat you.

Example;
I go into a waiting room before a meeting about the next mission I was assigned to. In the room one of the soldiers there recognize my name then tells me how much their kid loves the stories about how I protected a whole outpost by myself while being out numbered. Or how I delivered much needed food and medicine in record time between settlements after an massive earthquake as well as helped to look for survivors. And so they ask me to make a recorded message on their communicator that they can send to their kid for them cool parent points.

Example;
I walk in to a parts shop and the shopkeeper knows who I am. They ask if they can take a selfie with me to place on the wall of fame in the shop and to show their kids back home. And in return they'll give to a discount on what I was going to buy.

Children don't have to actually be in the game to have an effect on both the game play and story. Think of all the different lines and options NPCs could give players just based on their past actions and reputation. How would events and side missions change the dialog between NPCs and players from when a child friend player does it vs an edgelord player doing it? The possibilities are endless.

Nothing with age did get carried away with smaller statue kaiju they deserve to be represented just like the yoda but is a kaiju!

 

[PIghead Elderberry]

To touch on many threads at once, I propose:

Arena PVP battles between midget Kaiju and kids in tiny prototype warfares as part of warfare crafting R&D?

 

[Omnires]

Nothing with age did get carried away with smaller statue kaiju they deserve to be represented just like the yoda but is a kaiju!

You mean like how in Transformers they have giant robots the size of whole cities and planets as well as the minicons who are size of humans and small animals?

To touch on many threads at once, I propose:

Arena PVP battles between midget Kaiju and kids in tiny prototype warfares as part of warfare crafting R&D?

So you want something like this?

But really. Does anyone remember that those mission in FireFall where to had to fight raiders and try to track down missing kids? Remember how in one of those missions Oilspill said something like the raiders would kidnap children and put them in makeshift frames while forcing them to fight each other. Or that hidden quest line where we are looking for missing people only to find out that they ware all people who was immune to the Melding but didn't want to fight because most of them was kids. So the few adults who was also immune gathered them up moved somewhere hidden where the Chosen and the ACCORD would never find them.

 

[Krhys]

For some of you who knew me from the old Fire Fall days knows that is one of the pet peeves of mine. That is the lack of children characters in games. It really annoys me and breaks my immersion...

A bit concerning that your immersion is broken by not being able to look at children in games involving war machines battling monsters...

 

[Pandagnome]

A bit concerning that your immersion is broken by not being able to look at children in games involving war machines battling monsters...

when we are talking about a child they will be physically less capable than an adult and then there is the mental development. Little people can fall through holes could be a good thing or a bad thing depends where the hole leads to hmm

Guess kids would look good in small mechs the cute factor

Then when you look at what kids have is alot of fun but adults have responsibilities, bills to pay, and smelly diapers to change not forgetting lack of sleep! Most adults are grumpy and its a good reason why imagine kids with that responsibility gee they would be grumpy and have many tantrums unless your a wise miniature gandalf

Could imagine npc kids in their mechs who needs to be protected on route to collecting items that the family need to fix their home. As heroic mech pilots we help them out and along the way if one of the child gets kidnapped its not all fail. Can find them again & what if they the kaiju turned them into puppets who dance and act like chickens infront of the evil kaiju for their entertainment

you could just have small statued adults with big beards and be galactic space viking mech pilots hmm

 

[Omnires]

A bit concerning that your immersion is broken by not being able to look at children in games involving war machines battling monsters...

I don't need to see them in games, I just need the games to acknowledge their existence. It just not natural to see so many people without anyone talking about their families or talking about wanting to start a family of their own. Again even if you say the all the kids are safe inside a space station on the far side of the moon. There would still be people on the planet talking about the future and trying to think of ways to help the ones most effected by lost of their home world.

There is just something immersion breaking about there being hundreds, if not thousands, of people running around and not one of them has a kid or two waiting for them back home? It would be like an army only made up of single people and people who don't plan on having kids. There is just something off putting about that which hints at some massive social and cultural difference and possible disparity between the classes. Plus there is this odd fact about humans that about 9 to 11 months after a disaster, be it natural or man-made, there is a large spike in the birth rates. There is something about facing death that makes people want to have kids. I would think having your home world destroyed and losing all the people on that world counts as an disaster. And this not even counting the possible disaster orphans, the kids who was off world on a trip or something while their parents stayed home.

Children do not have to be in the game for NPCs to talk about them in a reasonable way. The few times where I can believe in a world where children do not exist when they story clearly states that no one gives birth anymore and everyone is ether a clone or artificial human with an accelerated growth to make them all adults within a matter of days while they are in the creation machine. Or something like that, otherwise to many alarm bells goes off in the back of my mind that I can't ignore.

 

[Omnires]

when we are talking about a child they will be physically less capable than an adult and then there is the mental development. Little people can fall through holes could be a good thing or a bad thing depends where the hole leads to hmm

Guess kids would look good in small mechs the cute factor

Then when you look at what kids have is alot of fun but adults have responsibilities, bills to pay, and smelly diapers to change not forgetting lack of sleep! Most adults are grumpy and its a good reason why imagine kids with that responsibility gee they would be grumpy and have many tantrums unless your a wise miniature gandalf

Could imagine npc kids in their mechs who needs to be protected on route to collecting items that the family need to fix their home. As heroic mech pilots we help them out and along the way if one of the child gets kidnapped its not all fail. Can find them again & what if they the kaiju turned them into puppets who dance and act like chickens infront of the evil kaiju for their entertainment

you could just have small statued adults with big beards and be galactic space viking mech pilots hmm

One of my friends said something that made me think. The kid don't have to be anywhere near the fighting or on the planet itself to still be able to help the adults. Because nothing is stopping some of the kids to remotely controlling drones to help scout out things. Not unlike how in real life you can fly a drone anyway where while being miles away from it. While making maps or watching environmental data, because the kids will have to learn about the new planet too if they are going to live there one day. They could use satellite data and make drones to explore things without ever leaving the space station. Form there they can report on odd things they found that the adults might have missed. After all, kids are doing that in real life now. Hell, there have been few kids who found archaeological finds that way, hidden and lost temples and even whole cities that adults have missed because no one even thought to look in that area or use this type of filter on the satellite / drone image.

 

[EvilKitten]

I would imagine that any kids that appear in game would all be up in orbit, away from the fighting. Perhaps some mothers carrying babies, children in school or older kids in training simulators and such. But honestly they would have to create entirely new NPC's from scratch simply for some immersion...maybe it will happen but I wouldn't expect to see it before game launch.