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Well, if the lore of Firefall allowed that, then I can't help but to fathom that in a universe where they can craft these insane Omniframe meks (instead of battleframe suits you wear), and travel faster than light (which is already outside the realm of "what we know of our physical reality"), then they can make a shield that seals you off from harsh environments and any and all incoming damage.
Very different concepts. Science fiction is just that and should always be grounded in what is plausible based on what we already know. If it's not, then you're dealing with fantasy fiction.
Additionally, theories for FTL travel have existed for decades and are supported (increasingly) by what we actually do know of our physical reality. The lore of Firefall was fairly solidly grounded in science fiction to the extent that only crystite was fantastic, though certainly possible given what we know of physics, similar to the idea of dilitium crystals in Star Trek (nevermind that Star Trek seems to completely ignore general relativity).
Additionally, theories for FTL travel have existed for decades and are supported (increasingly) by what we actually do know of our physical reality. The lore of Firefall was fairly solidly grounded in science fiction to the extent that only crystite was fantastic, though certainly possible given what we know of physics, similar to the idea of dilitium crystals in Star Trek (nevermind that Star Trek seems to completely ignore general relativity).
Eh, seems more like your opinion on the matter and I might have to disagree with you. A simple google search of "science fiction" yields this result:
Time travel, while heavily speculated on, is in my opinion, not supported by what we do know of our physical reality (besides perhaps moving FORWARD in time, which is apparently just slowing down your current time, while time "outside" moves at a normal speed?... a topic that could lead us into an entirely different discussion).
It seems to be that you are implying Star Trek is science fiction? If so, if you believe Star Trek's transporter is based on physical reality, then I'm going to have a hard time believing that an energy shield is completely outside physical reality and would never be achievable.
Mark hasn't exactly said this game was strictly and purely categorized into "science fiction" either.
I don't really want to see a game sacrifice enjoyability for the sake of realism..
But, to each his own.
Time travel, while heavily speculated on, is in my opinion, not supported by what we do know of our physical reality (besides perhaps moving FORWARD in time, which is apparently just slowing down your current time, while time "outside" moves at a normal speed?... a topic that could lead us into an entirely different discussion).
It seems to be that you are implying Star Trek is science fiction? If so, if you believe Star Trek's transporter is based on physical reality, then I'm going to have a hard time believing that an energy shield is completely outside physical reality and would never be achievable.
Mark hasn't exactly said this game was strictly and purely categorized into "science fiction" either.
I don't really want to see a game sacrifice enjoyability for the sake of realism..
But, to each his own.
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Dremor, engjang and Mahdi
I did pick up on the spine when looking at it for the first time too. But I rationalized it with the fact early coding of this potential game won't have location damage factors except for critical head shots. So it won't matter about being shot in the spine of the suit and having technical problems. Unless Ember grows to be huge and they decide to enhance the damage intake.
Its not a matter of location damage factors for gameplay reasons. Its one of those "the design does not look solid enough or safe enough" feelings for me.
You can go #energyshields but to me visually the design looks flimsy and not something I would want to take into battle. It relies too much on Rule of Cool to help with its suspension of disbelief.
But if among the most basic early when-it-gets-implemented cosmetics is an armor plating structure to reinforce those areas I can deal with it. If someone wants to see the mech looking flimsy they can have their flimsy mech.
But if I was a reaper I would take that thing to the nearest omniframe engineer and tell them to reinforce the fuck out of that cause I do not trust an energy shield alone to keep me alive or keep my mech from falling apart.
You can go #energyshields but to me visually the design looks flimsy and not something I would want to take into battle. It relies too much on Rule of Cool to help with its suspension of disbelief.
But if among the most basic early when-it-gets-implemented cosmetics is an armor plating structure to reinforce those areas I can deal with it. If someone wants to see the mech looking flimsy they can have their flimsy mech.
But if I was a reaper I would take that thing to the nearest omniframe engineer and tell them to reinforce the fuck out of that cause I do not trust an energy shield alone to keep me alive or keep my mech from falling apart.
You just described Special Relativity.
No, Star Trek is a blend of Science Fiction and Science Fantasy. It relies heavily on science fiction, however.
Neither transporters (strictly as described) nor any sort of "hard energy shield" are supported by science and are thus science fantasy.
Quite. You are completely ignoring the majority of what I initially posted, however. Those are basic issues with immersion based on a practical view of reality. We're not talking about having magical powers here, so why introduce things which would only work by ignoring that reality?
No, Star Trek is a blend of Science Fiction and Science Fantasy. It relies heavily on science fiction, however.
Neither transporters (strictly as described) nor any sort of "hard energy shield" are supported by science and are thus science fantasy.
Quite. You are completely ignoring the majority of what I initially posted, however. Those are basic issues with immersion based on a practical view of reality. We're not talking about having magical powers here, so why introduce things which would only work by ignoring that reality?
This design reminds me of 'Armored Personnel Unit' in the Matrix.
I didn't like them because of their impractical nature... pilot was too exposed.
That design is good as an artwork but if you are a citizen in the world of Ember, would you buy that product when you life is depend on it? I guess I have to if that is the only choice... (I can see my clone number is going up very quickly!)
OK, that omniframe will be equipped with an energy shield but, is it capable of blocking direct physical attack in melee fight? Let's say it can do that, then we need explanation on how omniframes can move within its own energy shield freely.
I didn't like them because of their impractical nature... pilot was too exposed.
That design is good as an artwork but if you are a citizen in the world of Ember, would you buy that product when you life is depend on it? I guess I have to if that is the only choice... (I can see my clone number is going up very quickly!)
OK, that omniframe will be equipped with an energy shield but, is it capable of blocking direct physical attack in melee fight? Let's say it can do that, then we need explanation on how omniframes can move within its own energy shield freely.
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I think "its open because of energy shields" excuse comes from combination of a lot of decisions that kinda snowball on each other and were created by the concept that they want to go with.
Till today everyone thought we gonna play with a character like in Firefall, we gonna have different armor/frame/suit but it still would be a character that we could customize and run around with. But then we find out that we are going to play World of Mecha. Meaning from the looks of it we will be inside of a vehicle most of the gameplay time. Most people here probably were not looking for a game where you are a robot. So they had to compromise and strip out the armor just so they can say "No no, hey look, there you are, you are the character right there in that suit!". Which I guess works for the purpose, but it messed up what mechas are. Do a quick google search, see how many armored suits you will see with some force field in front... not many at all (if any, I couldn't find any), because when you think mecha, armored suit, you thinking armor and guns, not a dude with pink hair and yellow jumpsuit staring at you in the middle of it. That's why a lot of people right away have a problem with the way it looks, and the "it has a energy shield" excuse feels kinda forced and weak.
Basically they just need to separate character from the mecha, and make the mecha a vehicle. Sure we can be inside of that vehicle most of the gameplay, and I don't have a problem with that, but gee don't butcher the vehicle just because you feel like people have to see their pretty hats, ha!
Till today everyone thought we gonna play with a character like in Firefall, we gonna have different armor/frame/suit but it still would be a character that we could customize and run around with. But then we find out that we are going to play World of Mecha. Meaning from the looks of it we will be inside of a vehicle most of the gameplay time. Most people here probably were not looking for a game where you are a robot. So they had to compromise and strip out the armor just so they can say "No no, hey look, there you are, you are the character right there in that suit!". Which I guess works for the purpose, but it messed up what mechas are. Do a quick google search, see how many armored suits you will see with some force field in front... not many at all (if any, I couldn't find any), because when you think mecha, armored suit, you thinking armor and guns, not a dude with pink hair and yellow jumpsuit staring at you in the middle of it. That's why a lot of people right away have a problem with the way it looks, and the "it has a energy shield" excuse feels kinda forced and weak.
Basically they just need to separate character from the mecha, and make the mecha a vehicle. Sure we can be inside of that vehicle most of the gameplay, and I don't have a problem with that, but gee don't butcher the vehicle just because you feel like people have to see their pretty hats, ha!
Agreed. If the pilot is only protected by an energy shield, then any effect applied to the MEK which kills power should logically kill the energy shield too, making the pilot completely vulnerable to attack. In such an event, how would you handle that?
And before naysayers naysay this comment, consider that there were EMP-like effects applied to your frame in Firefall. It's not silly to ask questions about things which would logically break immersion and suspension of disbelief.
Further, I don't make these arguments simply based on the idea of a video game. If you've ever played an actual RPG, you should know that things have to be consistent and sensible enough within the framework of the game to allow for suspension of disbelief. Failing to provide that severely breaks the game's enjoyment for the players.
And before naysayers naysay this comment, consider that there were EMP-like effects applied to your frame in Firefall. It's not silly to ask questions about things which would logically break immersion and suspension of disbelief.
Further, I don't make these arguments simply based on the idea of a video game. If you've ever played an actual RPG, you should know that things have to be consistent and sensible enough within the framework of the game to allow for suspension of disbelief. Failing to provide that severely breaks the game's enjoyment for the players.
Core sistems would have heavier electromagnetic shielding obiviously, it's not like it's that hard to protect against electromagnetic pulses even in real life, there's a point where the energy required to break through insulation becomes higher than the energy required to destroy the insulation, obiviously this refers to non nuclear electromagnetic pulses but i'd say that if the aliens are nuking us we're in a bad spot shield or no shield, probably an emp pulse strong enough to get through very strong insulation would scramble neural pathways too (meaning instant death)
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Also, by having the player only protected by an energy shield it means that you cannot apply the same defense rules that get applied to mobs, to the player themselves.
If a mob has a natural shield and we got weapons that bypass shields then mobs cannot have the same, otherwise they would instagib the defenseless player. Ultimately restricting mob design, and when/if PvP showed up the offense system for players would have to go through a drastic redesign.
Energy shields are something that should be applied over an armor layer for a multi-layered defense. Especially if the person is expected to pilot the suit into hostile territory with who knows what living out there. A creature out there could latch onto the energy shield and drain the suit of its power before munching on the exposed player!
If a mob has a natural shield and we got weapons that bypass shields then mobs cannot have the same, otherwise they would instagib the defenseless player. Ultimately restricting mob design, and when/if PvP showed up the offense system for players would have to go through a drastic redesign.
Energy shields are something that should be applied over an armor layer for a multi-layered defense. Especially if the person is expected to pilot the suit into hostile territory with who knows what living out there. A creature out there could latch onto the energy shield and drain the suit of its power before munching on the exposed player!
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there are several possible reasons not to shield everything as different components are harder to shield (weapons/jets need an outlet for example and you can't shield that as well as you can shield an inner black box), you're the one that brought up emp anyways, it's not like it has to be in the game, i find that debating the pros and cons of energy shields vs armor plates is really really pointless anyways, as armor is a real life thing with pros and cons while energy shields are fantasy constructs that can do everything and the opposite of everything depending on lore, i for one could think several reasons why armor would be completely unpratical going from concussion, total impossibility of repair, etch, anyways if you've read the lore posted with it omniframes is made of titanium aerogel, which in real life would probably lose out to wet tissue paper as far as armor goes
TL;DR
It's space magic, the artist does what he thinks looks cool with a reason, i for one like it, most of firefall battleframes lacked critical support joints but no one complained (ex: assaults have no leg-crotch joint and theoretically the whole frame should've crushed the user due to lack of structural support) personally i like the style even if i would do away with the second head.
I assumed that energy shields would've been the general humanoid (player or mob) equivalent for health, it's not like armor or human flesh can actually withstand much in the terms of punishment, at the end it just boils down to an hp bar ingame.
TL;DR
It's space magic, the artist does what he thinks looks cool with a reason, i for one like it, most of firefall battleframes lacked critical support joints but no one complained (ex: assaults have no leg-crotch joint and theoretically the whole frame should've crushed the user due to lack of structural support) personally i like the style even if i would do away with the second head.
I assumed that energy shields would've been the general humanoid (player or mob) equivalent for health, it's not like armor or human flesh can actually withstand much in the terms of punishment, at the end it just boils down to an hp bar ingame.
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engjang and Mahdi
1. Ok... what is your point exactly? My point was the definition of "science fiction" includes time travel, not special relativity.
2. Energy shields "breaking" immersion is simply, and only, your opinion. I disagree with your immersion breaking opinion.
Good grief.
Apparently, game developers and designers need to go get advanced degrees in engineering, physics, and the like, to absolutely make sure that not even one single aspect of the game be unrealistic, otherwise the ENTIRE immersion is broken and, oh my gosh, we just cannot have that now can we?
Food for thought:
In Firefall, players heads were completely exposed. How come everyone wasn't getting decapitated and having their heads "munched" on? Hmm?
You guys seem to really be "reaching" here. This game is not meant to be a real-life simulator of the future.
That's the last I'm going to say.
2. Energy shields "breaking" immersion is simply, and only, your opinion. I disagree with your immersion breaking opinion.
Good grief.
Apparently, game developers and designers need to go get advanced degrees in engineering, physics, and the like, to absolutely make sure that not even one single aspect of the game be unrealistic, otherwise the ENTIRE immersion is broken and, oh my gosh, we just cannot have that now can we?
Food for thought:
In Firefall, players heads were completely exposed. How come everyone wasn't getting decapitated and having their heads "munched" on? Hmm?
You guys seem to really be "reaching" here. This game is not meant to be a real-life simulator of the future.
That's the last I'm going to say.
Reposted from another thread..........I think Cyclone (sorry for the American bastard name) concept would be an amazing scout frame concept that trades away firepower for mobility in both air (jumpjets) and land. On that note an obviously heavy frame that picks up firepower and durability in lieu of mobility along the lines of Avatar's AMP suits would be a nice contrast in size and function to smaller, agile frames, something that Firefall Dreads never pulled off that well. /end repost
All in all, I think the concept art is pretty nice but I would agree that have the option to full enclose the Omniframe for those that prefer would be a great thing to add. I still would like to see variance in Omniframe aesthetics with smaller frames and larger frames similar to what is pictured above based on Weapons/Abilties/Components etc., going from Firefall's Recon/Bio size up to the much larger frame as pictured above.
All in all, I think the concept art is pretty nice but I would agree that have the option to full enclose the Omniframe for those that prefer would be a great thing to add. I still would like to see variance in Omniframe aesthetics with smaller frames and larger frames similar to what is pictured above based on Weapons/Abilties/Components etc., going from Firefall's Recon/Bio size up to the much larger frame as pictured above.
It looks awesome, but I gotta say, that's a lot of machinery around the body compared to a "Battleframe". How mobile is it? How fast can it run? I really hope the gameplay with it can be fast and fluid.
Remember the mech from Saints Row 4. That shit was clunky and slow. I pray the Omniframe is nothing like that.
Remember the mech from Saints Row 4. That shit was clunky and slow. I pray the Omniframe is nothing like that.
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