Em8er Progress?

[ChAzZ_NuT]

Greetings Gatestriders!

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I am Chazz, I have been supporting the Em8er project for many many years. Throughout those years my opinions on the project have swung back and forth like a pendulum, I have been kind and I have been harsh. I have had both constructive and destructive criticism for the project, but in general I have tried my best to follow the conversations which I thought were true.

I am friendly with a lot of the community members and I respect a lot of them whether I disagree with them or not, and I have spent a decent amount of time over the years talking to people about the Em8er project. I would like to open dialogue here with the community members, because I would like to see your opinions in a collective space respectfully.

This is not a thread for debate, but I would appreciate it if you are a part of the community that you could offer up your opinions on the 8 years we have been here. I want to know how you are feeling and thinking about things because I think it matters.

Do you think the current progress equates to the timeline or not, why do you think this is the case?

 

[Shanie]

Any backer who has been in this community for over 3 years has expected many chunks of the game to release by now through Crixa's own established timeline(s), a mere few of them releasing publicly during this process.

What I have seen in the last two years are:

• A substantial, incredibly significant stagnation in development.
• A loss of interest in keeping up with #no-zero-days
• A significant reduction of Chief Chats.
• A loss of interest in keeping up with skins for subscribers, the sole reason they subscribe apart from Em8ER development.
• A substantial, significant increase in the CEOs interaction with Twitter, 99% of which has nothing to do with Em8ER.
• Re-using old assets as if implying progress in Em8ERs development, which isn't sincere.
• A substantial, significant increase of the CEO occupying their time talking to YouTube channels discussing things that have little to nothing to do with Em8ER's gameplay or progress.
• An increase in indie journalists from all sorts of organizations noting much of the above and noting Em8ER's lack of progress.

I don't know what the objectives here are, but I don't believe them to have Em8ER's production or possible release in mind, and it's not simply the Backer community who has noticed this.

I believe, if Em8ER actually matters to Crixa and its owners:

• Cut Twitter/X cold turkey. It has proven to be purposeless to the production of Em8ER and has significantly impacted development.
• If the CEO is to go on a YouTube/Twitch stream, it should solely for marketing Em8ER.
• Continue posting to the Em8ER Twitter by the Marketing team; someone who is NOT the Crixa CEO.
• Continue posting to #no-zero-days. If #no-zero-days is not posted to, the Backers should assume nothing has been done this day. Include screenshots, even if it's unimpressive.
• Focus on the project at hand and devise a plan to bring the goals to fruition. This is hard, and I don't envy the CEO for this job. But it's his job as Team Lead, and it's harder than any Team Lead job he's ever had because of the significant stranglehold of money on the project.
• I don't want to have to say this, but if the above isn't feasible, it's time to get a publisher.

Many people have dropped their Subs simply because they feel their money is going into the void. Progress is, literally, money.

 

[grayhammer#2116]

Bit of a Rant. Forgive me for my rage.

The current Progress does not lead up to 8 years of development, or work.

Recently He streamed and worked on Em8er, twice that I have been active, roughly 2-4 hours each where he worked on the new Tsi-Hu model, got it painted and ready to have its armor put on, then next stream it was to make an arena or showcase area to show them off. This was around the time we got the consolidated build.

The last time we had such activity, was back when we got the UE5move, the Kneebiter swarmer tech and the Tsi-Hu whitebox movement demo. That was almost 6-8 months ago.

I know its to be kept separate, but I cannot understate how important it is to my point. I can look at Grummz's twitter, and see he is hyperactive on that Platform. Every day he makes 8-12 posts, on average. While in No-Zero-Days I can point to it and see that its been updated at most 20 times, since he began his twitter campaign.

It feels like with 200k followers, if we take the law of averages and even just 5% of people are subscribed to him, he is making demonstrably more money there, than working on Em8er.

We are currently flooded on the discord with a ton of people from his twitter, ragging on the progress and just being mood killers, but I can't tell them they are wrong.

The first year I was here, we got 5 updates in a month, over the next year we got like 2 updates? This year we have had the consolidated demo update.

He says something will happen this Jan or Q1 of next year, but that's what he said last year, for this year.

I want him to give us a time when he will focus on Em8er full time, what exactly is he waiting on. What needs to get done. If he tells me that he is just waiting on new tech, or a freelancer programing on something, the new website or several projects need to be finished all together than I can forgive and
wait.

As of right now we know what is being worked on: Art Refresh, New Website.

The new Website has been being worked on for upwards of a year now. The Art Refresh is supposedly around the corner.

I could care less about the Art Update (Still Important), I want a tangible update to the demo, progressing to the vertical slice for Kickstarter. We can work with Whitebox's and Janky animations.

We need a Gatestrider Base on one end of the Map, a Tsi-Hu base on the other. Have patrols from both sides clashing, have the Current Thumper encounter, to gather resources to build up the Gatestrider base, defenses/facilities, add in a basic upgrade system (To show the gameplay loop) for weapons and or armor of Build X Building, supply Y resource get Z Upgrade. Have a Kiju bossfight. We also need the Light Omni-Frame.

We have the Medium Omni-Frame, TMPR encounter (resource gathering), and a few enemies (Getting reworked with the Art Refresh)

That be my take, I hope we see progress like I did when I first joined Em8er.

 

[Shanie]

We need a Gatestrider Base on one end of the Map, a Tsi-Hu base on the other. Have patrols from both sides clashing, have the Current Thumper encounter, to gather resources to build up the Gatestrider base, defenses/facilities, add in a basic upgrade system (To show the gameplay loop) for weapons and or armor of Build X Building, supply Y resource get Z Upgrade. Have a Kiju bossfight. We also need the Light Omni-Frame.

I simply wanted to quote this because this is exactly what is needed. The boss could be optional, whatever, obviously much harder to get in, but the rest is important. When we got an "AI Programmer" a couple years ago, this is what I assumed was next at bat. It should be the only thing being worked on.

 

[Pandagnome]

The important things:

- Leave a legacy for Em8er to be that fun game, and make your family and community hyped.
- Devs more active in Em8er forum, to see this forum alive with activity not only from the community.
- Timeline a genuine one that gives us a better idea of what is to be expected as we continue on.
- Updates with proof that this is done either implemented in a new demo build or some small video clip of what is to come.
- Em8er team members would like to know more in how they are involved in this project and their feedback.
- New website anticipating this!
- Drive Em8er forwards this can be done with consistency and results.

 

[Morihaus]

Magic 8ball says: "Outlook not so good."

Far too late for my refund. I learned my lesson about never doing what is effectively preordering (or in this case pre-preordering) and I'm mostly just tired of waiting. So I play other games, and in the future won't spend a dime on ideas that may end up being vaporware, concept PDFs, and/or flashy concept art.

My $34 vanished into the nether, never to be seen again, and I can accept that and have moved on. Early projects like these wither and die sometimes. Others backed more than I have as well, which is a shame, and I hope they aren't hurting too much for it.

 

[liandri]

I'm loathe to ask for a roadmap after what happened last time, but as a backer, I have absolutely no clue where EM-8ER is from a development standpoint; only that it is nowhere near done and that I should not expect a vertical slice anytime soon.

I'll mention a few things:
1. No Zero Days
Lack of communication has been a constant complaint. The #no-zero-days chat resolved this somewhat initially. However, of the 284 days, 176 are missing any update. Not counting weekends, that is still close to 150 days, and that isn't discounting any day were he just wrote that he was sick and nothing else.
Regardless of the content (though I liked the thoughtfulness and longform of Medium), I appreciate seeing updates.

2. Development direction
I don't know if Mark is still aiming for the 4v1 kaiju hunting demo. I don't know if the Home demo is ever being released. What is the endpoint here beyond "getting to the Kickstarter"?

Echoing @grayhammer#2116's point re: a vertical slice. I like the idea and I remember saying something similar years ago. Having content in the demo that is representative of the final product, while also having that repeatability of an MMO too, is enough. There doesn't need to be spectacle if the core experience is enjoyable.

As for why I think progress and direction has been poor, there are two things in my mind.

1. Mark. I can't attest to what he does in his own time, or really what he does at any time, but it doesn't ever feel like he is putting 40 hours in. The project lives or dies on his ability to get it done and it can feel like he is letting it die. Why is speculation. Putting aside everything the casual haters say, outwardly he wants EM-8ER to live up to everyone's expectation and be the best game there is. The issue is Duke Nukem Forever. You can't always have the best tech, best ideas or biggest tiddies. You'll always play catch up to someone else, especially when there are so many games that do ***parts*** of what EM-8ER does better.

2. The Community. We were too nice and hyped so much 4 years ago, so we're paying for it now. I was pretty hyped up until the Claimstakes chat, where I had to really sit back and say "this isn't the game I paid for". I am very appreciative that people can openly voice their opinions (it would be remarkably hypocritical if we couldn't)

The resolution is simply to work on the actual demo. Add features. Reactivate that Taxi ability so players can go to a room with all the models, or to the ice world to mine and run around. Just put something new in consistently enough that you have players always running around checking out the new demo. Eventually, you'll have your vertical slice. You'll have your interested playerbase making videos and marketing for you. And you'll have money from people willing to back again because you showed you could pull it off. Here are a few to get started:

☐ Add a new weapon. Pick any primary from Firefall. Switching can be done through the C menu.
☐ Add a new enemy. The Tsi-hu armoured was removed, so he could come back. Give him a plasma cannon.
☐ Add a new ability. Firefall's Turret Mode is the easiest I can think of.
☐ Change the map. There was an interesting test map mentioned in Medium, which had segmented areas and floating platforms. That, or why not leverage voxels to add interesting features to the ice world (caverns, overhangs, etc). Add some blinking lights to guide you through the fog. Or a snowstorm!