Remember people things like aggregated hyperdiamonds do exist in the world. Yes, there are somethings harder than diamonds.
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Drakin5 and Pandagnome
You have to take into consideration what type of melee weapon you’re using. Swords and other bladed weapons are most effective against soft, unarmored targets. Axes are simpler, cheaper and more useful against armor compared to swords. Hammers and maces are far effective against armored via internal bleeding and damage.
And let’s not forget about the cost. Sure, you can make a wonder material for a melee weapon that can resist damage and impact for a long time, but is it cost effective? Not only construction cost, but also maintenance cost.
And let’s not forget about the cost. Sure, you can make a wonder material for a melee weapon that can resist damage and impact for a long time, but is it cost effective? Not only construction cost, but also maintenance cost.
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Pandagnome
I would wager that is where the tiers will come in. Higher tier weapons will have more exotic (and higher cost) options than lower tiers. The key there though is different weapon types work better against different materials. So cutting weapons might work better against Kaiju and blunt weapons might work better against armored Tsi-hu. The Tsi-hu themselves may have melee weapons as well capable of at least partially bypassing shields so this would make the whole melee dual wielding much more important, as well as the ability to carry a shield.
It also makes it much more important to have different health bars for HP, Armor, and Shields, each with their own resistances. That would make it very apparent why you would not want to fight outside of your Omni-frame as you would be ditching 2 of your 3 health pools.
EDIT: Here is a LINK to a thread I made a couple years ago concerning HP/Armor/Shield pools and weapon damage types.
It also makes it much more important to have different health bars for HP, Armor, and Shields, each with their own resistances. That would make it very apparent why you would not want to fight outside of your Omni-frame as you would be ditching 2 of your 3 health pools.
EDIT: Here is a LINK to a thread I made a couple years ago concerning HP/Armor/Shield pools and weapon damage types.
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Pandagnome
Well remember there are also some swords what are designed to be effective against armor too. A good number of them are designed to be thin and/or needle-like relaying heavily on their shape it fit into the gaps of armor and/or focusing all the power onto a small point to puncture through the armor. This why a lot of insects and animals use stingers and spear-like body parts to hunt/fight against armored things. (Side note, the reason a bee's stinger gets stuck in human skin is because it is soft. As their stingers is designed for fighting other armored enemies like other insects.) The other type of sword designed to fight against armor is a sword that relays heavily on momentum to do damage, this swords have the center of mass as close as possible to tip of the sword rather in the middle or at the handle. They are great for having a lot of cutting power but have much less fine control as compared to swords where the center of mass is in the handle. The reason I call this types of sword momentum based is because to use them most effectively you have to build up momentum with your movements and so people who train to use this weapons use fighting styles with a lot of looping and circular movements to build up as much speed and momentum as possible within a given space. This also way when you see some people with their sword drawn at the ready you might note that keep making circular looping movements with the tip of their sword swaying while they wait for their for their chance to attack or block.
Remember the when it comes to bladed weapons the shape and center of mass of the blade tells you what is the best way use the weapon. This is why before I use bladed weapons in real life I pay close attention to the shape of the cutting edge and note where center of mass is on the weapon. Because these factors do change and make a big difference is how effective a blade is for stabbing or slicing. Just as much as how to hold the weapon (and yes, there are pros and cons to using a weapon like a dagger overhanded or underhanded and it is not just for looks).
Also relayed to this topic is the fact that some mecha use pile drivers in their arms and/or legs to do a lot of damage. And some of act more like how a jackhammer works rather and a pile driver. As jackhammers focus their energy onto a smaller area to go through things rather than crush them.
Remember the when it comes to bladed weapons the shape and center of mass of the blade tells you what is the best way use the weapon. This is why before I use bladed weapons in real life I pay close attention to the shape of the cutting edge and note where center of mass is on the weapon. Because these factors do change and make a big difference is how effective a blade is for stabbing or slicing. Just as much as how to hold the weapon (and yes, there are pros and cons to using a weapon like a dagger overhanded or underhanded and it is not just for looks).
Also relayed to this topic is the fact that some mecha use pile drivers in their arms and/or legs to do a lot of damage. And some of act more like how a jackhammer works rather and a pile driver. As jackhammers focus their energy onto a smaller area to go through things rather than crush them.
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EvilKitten and Pandagnome
Slashing and Piercing would be 2 different damage types. Most swords are designed to do one or the other very effectively. Armor would have a bonus resistance to slashing, not piercing. So piercing damage is projectile weapons and certain swords, Armor gains no bonus against those, but against slashing weapons it would have a bonus resistance. If a sword was designed for either or (rare but possible?) It could be that the primary attack is slashing, but an alternate attack does piercing instead. I am somewhat against this though because it would mitigate the importance of dual wielding somewhat if you can have one weapon that does both types of damage.
EDIT: Alternately, while a bit more complicated, you could say that piercing and slashing have the same mitigation vs armor, but piercing gains a bonus vs weak points. If raw slashing damage is always a bit less than piercing damage, and unarmored opponents were given fewer overall weak points, then in general you could say that slashing would have an advantage vs unarmored opponents and piercing would have an advantage against armored opponents.
EDIT: Alternately, while a bit more complicated, you could say that piercing and slashing have the same mitigation vs armor, but piercing gains a bonus vs weak points. If raw slashing damage is always a bit less than piercing damage, and unarmored opponents were given fewer overall weak points, then in general you could say that slashing would have an advantage vs unarmored opponents and piercing would have an advantage against armored opponents.
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Omnires and Pandagnome
When I'm fighting in real life there is a basic short hand math problem I use in my head for I go on the offence and defence. Enemy defence type + enemy attack type + the odds of a counterattack / my attack options - my defence options - my ability to do counterattacks. There is a lot more that goes into that but I don't want to have to make a wall of text for all the math that goes through my head every fraction of a second. For example different types of armor protects a target in different ways. Some armor block damage just by being hard enough to resist the attack (like a super hard metal), some armor block damage by redirecting the force of the attack away from the target (often by having rounded and/or slopes surfaces), and some armor block damage by absorbing the force of the attack (often by moving and deforming with the force of the attack to change the energy into something else). Each type of defence has pros and cons so different types of attack will have different levels of success on them, and I say this because even an attack that is normally weak against a type of armor can still overcome it in the right conditions. There is no such thing as a perfect defence nor a perfect offence. So you always have to weigh your options before doing anything. In combat the real goal for victory is to limit the other side's options as much as possible, with lowering their options for offence and defence to zero meaning death.
Most game over simplify the math for damage by a lot. But that is ok in the name of fun. Although it does annoy me when games make things that are sniper-proff just because of the type of armor or shield they use. Forgetting the fact that how some snipers get around the problem that your shots are not strong enough to go through the armor this first time, is keep hitting the same spot over and over again knowing that each hit is weakening that spot and pushing farther in each time until it breaks through the armor and hit what is on the other side. It is the same kind of effect as someone hurting you over and over again, even if each hit is not that hard each hit in the same spot starts to hurt more and more.
Most game over simplify the math for damage by a lot. But that is ok in the name of fun. Although it does annoy me when games make things that are sniper-proff just because of the type of armor or shield they use. Forgetting the fact that how some snipers get around the problem that your shots are not strong enough to go through the armor this first time, is keep hitting the same spot over and over again knowing that each hit is weakening that spot and pushing farther in each time until it breaks through the armor and hit what is on the other side. It is the same kind of effect as someone hurting you over and over again, even if each hit is not that hard each hit in the same spot starts to hurt more and more.
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Pandagnome and EvilKitten
That is basically the idea I had behind Armor for Em-8er in the first place. Armor would have its own HP pool, initially armor would block the maximum %age rated for that armor, whatever gets blocked reduced that HP pool while the rest gets passed on to health. But the amount of HP being passed through will increase as the armor HP pool is reduced, so your choices are to either you can use high damage weapons to penetrate through the armor, or chip away at the armor until even the lower damage gets through in sufficient quantities to destroy the target.
Eg. 1000/1000 armor, 80% resistance
Incoming 100 damage, 80 goes to armor, 20 goes to HP new armor 920/1000
2nd shot, 100 damage, 74 goes to armor, 26 goes to HP new armor 846/1000
3rd shot, 100 damage, 68 goes to armor, 32 goes to HP, new armor 778/1000
Obiously that example is a bit extreme, normal armor won't regenerate without repairs so it should have a large enough HP pool so it would take a while to chip armor down an extreme amount, but that should get the idea across. As a battle rages, the armor becomes less effective, and what one might have shrugged off initially would be suicide an hour later if you do not repair your Omni-frame.
In terms of the Tsi-hu this could make the game highly tactical. It will allow for multiple possible playstyles and force teamwork because a weapon that is really good against unarmored opponents might be terrible against armored, and vice versa.
Eg. 1000/1000 armor, 80% resistance
Incoming 100 damage, 80 goes to armor, 20 goes to HP new armor 920/1000
2nd shot, 100 damage, 74 goes to armor, 26 goes to HP new armor 846/1000
3rd shot, 100 damage, 68 goes to armor, 32 goes to HP, new armor 778/1000
Obiously that example is a bit extreme, normal armor won't regenerate without repairs so it should have a large enough HP pool so it would take a while to chip armor down an extreme amount, but that should get the idea across. As a battle rages, the armor becomes less effective, and what one might have shrugged off initially would be suicide an hour later if you do not repair your Omni-frame.
In terms of the Tsi-hu this could make the game highly tactical. It will allow for multiple possible playstyles and force teamwork because a weapon that is really good against unarmored opponents might be terrible against armored, and vice versa.
Likes:
Pandagnome and Omnires
That makes sense. Plus it gives people more of a reason to be mindful of things like team composition. Like you might not want to enter a large battle without a healer in the team. And if you don't have a healer do you have a good escape plan. Thinking tactical doesn't mean the most DPS wins because a good enemy can turn your strength against you. So learning not to relay on just one thing and learning to trust your team is key to making it out alive with as little damage to yourself as possible.
Although thinking about this has put this song back into my head, and I refuse to suffer alone. Lol
Although thinking about this has put this song back into my head, and I refuse to suffer alone. Lol
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EvilKitten and Pandagnome
Do remember when myself and another slow poke decided to look for an ayatan treasure the other 2 got incapacitated rushing ahead to kill a boss. We stroll along with invisibility save them and with our pea shooters we helped to defeat the boss 
I also remember in global agenda there was a medic with a paingun would point at a target and that target would be debuffed with some different colour aura so the team knew who to target but lets say that to develop it further the medic could scan enough to identify the weaker section of an area.
So with the paingun they could hilight this and the team would focus fire.
Although since the paingun is a pain to the target the medic is now a big target and medic needs protection for sure.
Usually going invisible and rolling away is what i like most or making something go to sleep!
Also wonder if we have the option for non-kill shots:
An example lets say the kaiju is very low on health and other stats and have the choices to:
a) kill it
b) capture using device could escape if device is not strong enough or be recaptured by kaiju
c) transport it to another gateway but who knows where it could go?
To not kill and capture could be ideal for learning more about it especially when you want to
figure out the weakness and strengths and this could be put towards the database.
What if there are consequences for your actions
E.g by letting the kaiju live elsewhere sent into another gate, in a random event you could have a kaiju appear to support you for a short time.
E.g. If the kaiju was killed the ghost would appear and rally the other kaijus to attack you
E.g. if you captured it and still kept it alive the kaiju would make an attempt to destroy your base of operations and save their own.
I have probably gone off topic but its ok i had to spew my thoughts
I also remember in global agenda there was a medic with a paingun would point at a target and that target would be debuffed with some different colour aura so the team knew who to target but lets say that to develop it further the medic could scan enough to identify the weaker section of an area.
So with the paingun they could hilight this and the team would focus fire.
Although since the paingun is a pain to the target the medic is now a big target and medic needs protection for sure.
Usually going invisible and rolling away is what i like most or making something go to sleep!
Also wonder if we have the option for non-kill shots:
An example lets say the kaiju is very low on health and other stats and have the choices to:
a) kill it
b) capture using device could escape if device is not strong enough or be recaptured by kaiju
c) transport it to another gateway but who knows where it could go?
To not kill and capture could be ideal for learning more about it especially when you want to
figure out the weakness and strengths and this could be put towards the database.
What if there are consequences for your actions
E.g by letting the kaiju live elsewhere sent into another gate, in a random event you could have a kaiju appear to support you for a short time.
E.g. If the kaiju was killed the ghost would appear and rally the other kaijus to attack you
E.g. if you captured it and still kept it alive the kaiju would make an attempt to destroy your base of operations and save their own.
I have probably gone off topic but its ok i had to spew my thoughts
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Omnires
I always loved games where it is possible to win without kill the enemies. Partly because it takes more tactics and skills to win without hurting or killing the enemy than it is just to blow up everything. This also why Deus EX is in within my personal top 10 games of all time. Because it was one of the first games where you can choice not to fight and still win, you could even talk your way out of a fight or hack a computer into viewing you as a friend.
In terms of Em-8er I think having the ability to take in targets alive should come with extra rewards. Mostly on the lines of things like extra information, faster research into new upgrades in things like weapons and gear, and standing with different groups (explain the people in R&D will like you more but people in another group might like you less). Given that I love to play as assassins, snipers, and other things kill in one or two hits with proper timing and aim for the execution having as much information as possible about the enemy's biology and behavior is more valuable than gold. And if I can use that information make weapons, armors, and/or attack patterns all the better. Plus I also love lore and world building. And all good sci-fi has tons of lore for fans to think about and play around with, even if most of it hidden in out of the way places or only given out in broken and missing parts of a story left by some ancient people on wall that has been eroded way by time.
I think there should be different types of rewards for how we deal with missions and bosses. A number of other games already do this in how rewards can change based on different factors. Be it time bases, damage based, action bases, even character based (In some games just because of the fact that you are male or female can change what enemies spawn in a dungeon and how they act around you. As some will always target males over females and others females over males. Which also effect drop rates some things as some items only drop if a male kills the enemy and the same goes if a female kills them.). Even games like Warframe is starting to do this more and more in quest lines and boss fights where you pick if someone or something lives or dies and get different rewards based on it.
My question is. If I do win against say a Cat 3 kaiju without killing it, how do I bring it back to base alive? And will the act of trying to take it in alive also trigger more enemies to attack me to try and set their friend free while I'm taking it base. Going by how bad it is I might have to ask other nearby players for help in escorting the kaiju with me. But not just kaiju, any animal that lives and hunts in packs might try to save and free one of their own.
In terms of Em-8er I think having the ability to take in targets alive should come with extra rewards. Mostly on the lines of things like extra information, faster research into new upgrades in things like weapons and gear, and standing with different groups (explain the people in R&D will like you more but people in another group might like you less). Given that I love to play as assassins, snipers, and other things kill in one or two hits with proper timing and aim for the execution having as much information as possible about the enemy's biology and behavior is more valuable than gold. And if I can use that information make weapons, armors, and/or attack patterns all the better. Plus I also love lore and world building. And all good sci-fi has tons of lore for fans to think about and play around with, even if most of it hidden in out of the way places or only given out in broken and missing parts of a story left by some ancient people on wall that has been eroded way by time.
I think there should be different types of rewards for how we deal with missions and bosses. A number of other games already do this in how rewards can change based on different factors. Be it time bases, damage based, action bases, even character based (In some games just because of the fact that you are male or female can change what enemies spawn in a dungeon and how they act around you. As some will always target males over females and others females over males. Which also effect drop rates some things as some items only drop if a male kills the enemy and the same goes if a female kills them.). Even games like Warframe is starting to do this more and more in quest lines and boss fights where you pick if someone or something lives or dies and get different rewards based on it.
My question is. If I do win against say a Cat 3 kaiju without killing it, how do I bring it back to base alive? And will the act of trying to take it in alive also trigger more enemies to attack me to try and set their friend free while I'm taking it base. Going by how bad it is I might have to ask other nearby players for help in escorting the kaiju with me. But not just kaiju, any animal that lives and hunts in packs might try to save and free one of their own.
This is a cool thread.. I shall be watching it.
@EvilKitten Interesting video. I shall watch it soon as I can.
@Drakin5 Cost! Yes always a good thing to bring up.
@Omnires you say when fighting in real life? What kind of fighting are you into?
@EvilKitten Interesting video. I shall watch it soon as I can.
@Drakin5 Cost! Yes always a good thing to bring up.
@Omnires you say when fighting in real life? What kind of fighting are you into?
Without weapons I use mix of CQC (close quarters combat) as the first style I was taught, karate, american brawler, wrestling, and bits of other things I learned over the years from street fighting or MMA. In my younger days I use to get angry a lot and often get into fights be it one on one or me vs a group of people. The only real fights I ever lost was when fighting 9 and 11 people at once respectively who ambushed me. But even than I didn't lose by much as they was battles of attrition and not all out force.
With melee weapons I tend to use knives and daggers, rods, and rope/chains. The reason being that these was the most common melee weapons you'll find in street fights an urban environment. Things like baseball bats are too obvious and hard to hide, so even if someone was hiding it under their cloths you can still spot the odd movements they make when walking and how their cloths move.
I was also really into archery as a kid and other light projectile that could be made by hand in cases of emergency.
As for how I like to fight, it is mix of yang fire and water as they are my main personality traits.
With melee weapons I tend to use knives and daggers, rods, and rope/chains. The reason being that these was the most common melee weapons you'll find in street fights an urban environment. Things like baseball bats are too obvious and hard to hide, so even if someone was hiding it under their cloths you can still spot the odd movements they make when walking and how their cloths move.
I was also really into archery as a kid and other light projectile that could be made by hand in cases of emergency.
As for how I like to fight, it is mix of yang fire and water as they are my main personality traits.
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Faeryl and Wyntyr