Got 2 guns? Shoot at 2 targets, then!

[MattHunX]

For medium frames that could dual wield either identical pair of weapons or two different types and/or categories.

Could there be a mechanic that would allow the player to lock a target for one weapon, but not the camera, which would move freely to allow for manual targeting of a second target with the other weapon? Animation for the spread of the arms, as one would be fixed, while the other would have to follow the cross-hair in whatever angles, could present a challenge.

Perhaps it could be tied to an ability, with a cool-down and duration, if it couldn't be a base mechanic for the medium-frame.

I could already see this being used in combination with my Astral Ranger build's Orion Radar ability that would highlight weak-spot for dual-wielding medium-frames, who could then shoot at two weak-points, at the same time. Eh?

 

[Degiance]

I forget it was in True Crime Streets of LA where you could actually aim in two diffrent directions with dual pistols.

 

[Pandagnome]

Maybe the pet can lock on the target while the player manually aims

 

[MattHunX]

I'm thinking of that old guy from the Matrix movies with the walker, firing with those two guns, mwhaha!

 

[Wyntyr]

Would be interesting just don't know how doable it would be to code and/or animate.

 

[Pandagnome]

I'm thinking of that old guy from the Matrix movies with the walker, firing with those two guns, mwhaha!

Ahh i see what you mean!

Would be interesting just don't know how doable it would be to code and/or animate.

hmm i got to agree also

 

[MattHunX]

Ahh i see what you mean!



hmm i got to agree also

Yeah, that's my only worry. Not sure if it would be that simple to code and implement, either as a base mechanic for medium-frames or just as an activated ability.

 

[SomeUnregPunk]

I remember doing that in Amored core. Except it required you to use different lock on weapons so you could move freely while different weapons or arms locked on to different targets while you were using your non lock on weapons to target other prey.

It required a bit of training to get the hang of it though.

 

[EvilKitten]

Personally I would avoid auto-aim as that would take away from skill, and I don't really see a good way to have a second target without auto aim.

EDIT: with that said I *could* see having some abilities (rocket swarm or something) being able to target multiple targets if you preload them beforehand.

 

[Terib.Shadow]

Personally I would avoid auto-aim as that would take away from skill, and I don't really see a good way to have a second target without auto aim.

EDIT: with that said I *could* see having some abilities (rocket swarm or something) being able to target multiple targets if you preload them beforehand.

I do have to add to what our Evilkitty said, Grummz does want this game to first be skill based, then gear based, if skill is the most important factor for efficiency in a shooter, adding an aimbot weapon is a very bad idea.

Vermintide 1 had the trueflight longbow, go figure, everyone used that one and annihilated everything until they nerfed it so much that it was nearly useless and ran out of ammo in no time.

 

[Aphaz]

Personally I would avoid auto-aim as that would take away from skill, and I don't really see a good way to have a second target without auto aim.

EDIT: with that said I *could* see having some abilities (rocket swarm or something) being able to target multiple targets if you preload them beforehand.

Targeting

just a few thoughts on targeting. in FF, presing F would "mark a target" and add it to friendlys' S.I.N.
this is something along that line, just... me

Tap F - adds all on screen enemies to the player's squad/platoon S.I.N. network (or any friendly player within X meters if soloing) and adds "location based" waypoint ( to any friendly that is further away than X meters)

Hold F - activate targeting modes:

- Paint Target (PT) - all squad/platoon members, and any friendly player within X meters gain the target's location "as a waypoint". the target remains painted (the waypoint moves with the target) for as long as the "painter player" succeeds in keeping the target painted. loosing the target for more that 2sec disengages painting. allows the use of Guided and Homing weapons/abilities/hkms. any homing weapon/ability/hkm with it's own "priority target rules" will then do 1 of 2 things. either mark those targets as priority targets, or, if there is already a priority target among the selected targets, then the "double priority" target gets killed first and any remaining ammo is then divided among the rest.player must both hold f and LMB while "painting" a target, but gains more weakpoint info and more precise guidance

- Target Selection (TS) - while holding F, "shoot" up to x enemies to mark them (x = number of "free" CPUs). the mark lasts for a short period of time and moves with the target (does not need to be maintained like Painting Target) after which they turn off. this info is also linked to any squad/platoon member. allows the use of Guided and Homing weapons/abilities/hkms. any homing weapon/ability/hkm with it's own "priority target rules" will then do 1 of 2 things. either mark those targets as priority targets, or, if there is already a priority target among the selected targets, then the "double priority" target gets killed first and any remaining ammo is then divided among the rest.

*TO CYCLE between PT and TS, release F and quickly press and hold again, or tap RMB while holding F ( ) .

 

[SomeUnregPunk]

Personally I would avoid auto-aim as that would take away from skill, and I don't really see a good way to have a second target without auto aim.

EDIT: with that said I *could* see having some abilities (rocket swarm or something) being able to target multiple targets if you preload them beforehand.

In Amored core 1/2 and Masters of Arena (I haven't played the others) the lock on capability or auto aim was limited to the equipable radar.

for example: a back weapon missile launcher with 6 missles per magazine.
You could get a wide but short distance radar which will let you auto-lock on to multiple possible targets
Or get a wide by short distance radar which will let you manually tag each target for each missile before firing them.
Or get a long range but limited sight one that is has your target recticle within a small cone/box/etc

That radar function actually made it more skilfull to use. Sure I could use the autolock radar but it would put me in mid to close combat range. Which means I would also need to be able kite and dodge targets and their enemy fire. Also the auto-aim radars tend to lock on to things slower than you could manually tag targets.

In regards to Em8er, I'd say a radar function that gives auto-aim should have costs like that.

 

[EvilKitten]

In Amored core 1/2 and Masters of Arena (I haven't played the others) the lock on capability or auto aim was limited to the equipable radar.

for example: a back weapon missile launcher with 6 missles per magazine.
You could get a wide but short distance radar which will let you auto-lock on to multiple possible targets
Or get a wide by short distance radar which will let you manually tag each target for each missile before firing them.
Or get a long range but limited sight one that is has your target recticle within a small cone/box/etc

That radar function actually made it more skilfull to use. Sure I could use the autolock radar but it would put me in mid to close combat range. Which means I would also need to be able kite and dodge targets and their enemy fire. Also the auto-aim radars tend to lock on to things slower than you could manually tag targets.

In regards to Em8er, I'd say a radar function that gives auto-aim should have costs like that.

Target Locking yes, computer controlled second weapon no.

The difference is that typically a rocket sort of projectile is a one use feature, IE you have to relock your targets for every use which means you still have to keep track of those targets and move in such a way that you can get another lock on them. The weapon path may be lock on and not involve the player but the tasks leading up to firing the ability off do. Simply targeting a mob and then having the computer autofire on said mob is maintained DPS without player interaction.

This is the same reason why I think having turret based abilities and weapons in Em-8er is great, but having auto track/fire turrets is bad.

 

[SomeUnregPunk]

Target Locking yes, computer controlled second weapon no.

oh yeah of course.
In Armored Core, all of the locked on computer controlled missles were still dodge-able. Even better AI targets was able to dodge them. The only way to get the locked on missiles to actually hit was to keep the targets focus on something else than the missles heading to them. Which was usually the player who fired the missiles.

I would hate it if the computer controlled locked on missiles weren't able to miss and perfectly tracked targets after you tagged them. That would suck.

 

[MattHunX]

Targeting

just a few thoughts on targeting. in FF, presing F would "mark a target" and add it to friendlys' S.I.N.
this is something along that line, just... me

Tap F - adds all on screen enemies to the player's squad/platoon S.I.N. network (or any friendly player within X meters if soloing) and adds "location based" waypoint ( to any friendly that is further away than X meters)

Hold F - activate targeting modes:

- Paint Target (PT) - all squad/platoon members, and any friendly player within X meters gain the target's location "as a waypoint". the target remains painted (the waypoint moves with the target) for as long as the "painter player" succeeds in keeping the target painted. loosing the target for more that 2sec disengages painting. allows the use of Guided and Homing weapons/abilities/hkms. any homing weapon/ability/hkm with it's own "priority target rules" will then do 1 of 2 things. either mark those targets as priority targets, or, if there is already a priority target among the selected targets, then the "double priority" target gets killed first and any remaining ammo is then divided among the rest.player must both hold f and LMB while "painting" a target, but gains more weakpoint info and more precise guidance

- Target Selection (TS) - while holding F, "shoot" up to x enemies to mark them (x = number of "free" CPUs). the mark lasts for a short period of time and moves with the target (does not need to be maintained like Painting Target) after which they turn off. this info is also linked to any squad/platoon member. allows the use of Guided and Homing weapons/abilities/hkms. any homing weapon/ability/hkm with it's own "priority target rules" will then do 1 of 2 things. either mark those targets as priority targets, or, if there is already a priority target among the selected targets, then the "double priority" target gets killed first and any remaining ammo is then divided among the rest.

*TO CYCLE between PT and TS, release F and quickly press and hold again, or tap RMB while holding F ( ) .

We do need some mechanic that would allow squads/platoons to not only coordinate attacks but to make better us of the abilities of others by painting targets for them and guiding their projectiles more accurate so the enemy has less chance of avoiding it.

 

[MattHunX]

oh yeah of course.
In Armored Core, all of the locked on computer controlled missles were still dodge-able. Even better AI targets was able to dodge them. The only way to get the locked on missiles to actually hit was to keep the targets focus on something else than the missles heading to them. Which was usually the player who fired the missiles.

I would hate it if the computer controlled locked on missiles weren't able to miss and perfectly tracked targets after you tagged them. That would suck.

I forgot to add to my OP that locking onto a target would not automatically guarantee hits, as the targeting system would not be able to "lead the shot" as manual-aiming by a human player would. So the enemy could still evade it if they're more nimble or on the small-side. Big buggers, however, could be more easily hit with a lock-on, while we shoot another target with our other hand.

 

[Bane]

Dropping my two cents here.

The only game solved the gun dual wield great - my personal opinion - is the new Wolfenstein. What happened there? Basically when you went into rage mind mode in front of your PC, you sacrificed ammunition consumption and accuracy in the altair of feeling. I personally feel that this is a solution worth check.

I got that the deal here is that an omniframe have multiple technical stabilizers ready to balance this, but the keyword here is "rage mode" so I don't want to use dual wield for maximum effectiveness, but for maximum firepower and shredding down everything.

 

[MattHunX]

Dropping my two cents here.

The only game solved the gun dual wield great - my personal opinion - is the new Wolfenstein. What happened there? Basically when you went into rage mind mode in front of your PC, you sacrificed ammunition consumption and accuracy in the altair of feeling. I personally feel that this is a solution worth check.

I got that the deal here is that an omniframe have multiple technical stabilizers ready to balance this, but the keyword here is "rage mode" so I don't want to use dual wield for maximum effectiveness, but for maximum firepower and shredding down everything.

Well...you're in-character, aren't ya.

 

[Bane]

Well...you're in-character, aren't ya.

Cant deny this to my fellow Hungarian.

 

[MR.Classy]

The only two options i could think of that could create a sense of duel wielding at two targets is either to have a lock on feature like it was already suggested or to have a different kind of lock where it locks the position of your gun in relation to your body while you aim with the other gun.
This of course would block the amount of movement you could do with your camera since you shouldn't be able to turn more than 180 degrees from the way the locked gun is pointing.
Now how i imagine this could be pulled off is have the game react differently to how the two mouse buttons are pressed.
When neither one of the buttons is pressed, you are in your idle stance, you can rotate your camera anywhere you want and no bullets are being fired.
When you press both of the buttons at the same time you shoot both of your guns at the same time and follow the camera like in any other game with dual wield.
Similar thing happens when you press only one of the buttons where instead of both guns firing, only one fires.
Now here comes the tricky part: if while you are pressing one of the buttons(1), you press the other(2) one as well, the already firing gun(1) locks in place and the camera switches to the direction the now firing gun(2) is facing and you can aim with that gun(2).
While this is taking place, you can only rotate to a limited degree(just point in one direction with your left hand and while keeping your hand in that direction see how much you can rotate and point with your other hand).
To switch between hands while in this dual mode, just release the button of the gun(1) you wanna aim with and press it again(1). That way the previous gun(2) will be the locked one and the newly pressed one(1) will be the unlocked one.
Really confusing, i know.
But it works without the need for an ability and with enough practice can be used to hit multiple moving targets at the same time.