"Abilities/OmniProtocols/Armor/Stuff"

[Aphaz]

Some crazy good ideas here!

Having a forest that gets stomped by Kaiju just walking through it would be neat.

Having trees grow back like that (or other organics) would be neat.

Having levels of distress levels show and levels of fitness show would be neat.

Excellent suggestions!

thanks m8, i do try...it's fun and as i said, a good mental training for me...lol

 

[Pandagnome]

even though a shield is not technically a weapon, u can always make a P.E.R.C. that allows for the player to use a shield bash...lol

I like that and hope there is rag doll effect after bashing an enemy then again the shield could have spikes and get stuck on it ouch

or a shield with a holographic image which aggros the enemy much more for them to run to it and waiting for that wonderful moment to POW

then after seeing this below a way to get your commards a boost but not too far or you may go somewhere unpleasant!

 

[MattHunX]

...as far as weapons are concerned i would also suggest some form of "compartmentalising" on your part...maybe along the lines of: *snip*

All o' That!

Adding to just the type of weapons, i created a Transformers: Prime OC, Snapblast, whose vehicle-mode is a M109A6 Paladin (artillery). When he's on-foot, it's mounted on his shoulders and it can alternate between two firing-modes. One is an arcing flash-forged shell that the man-made combat vehicle would normally have, able to shoot over hills and other terrain. The other is an energy-based rail-gun, that, of course, shoots straight, so to speak.

Now...I don't realistically expect something just like that to ever make it into the game, but the heavier frame-builds could potentially be carrying friggin' artillery cannon, as their main weapon, which means they'd have to defend themselves with some secondary weapon (SMG, MG...etc.) at closer ranges and/or with melee weapons.

As for melee weapons, the bigger the fucker (frame) is, the bigger the weapon can be. I mean, I figure they'll be no height-difference between frames and they'd get buffer with more armor, but it would stand to reason that heavier bastards could wield bastard swords or mallets or some such. A giant halberd! That could get me going. Or just a medium-sized one, really. Lances?

 

[Aphaz]

lol...and i wuz thinking of adding lances/halberds but didn't want to give grummz and the guys "too much work" ...rofl
good to know there's a kindred spirit out there...


@MattHunX ...awesome idea for having a weapon in vehicle/skimmer mode...must admit i haven't thought of that and it sounds AWESOME!
...go, go...anime battle skimmers vs fast kaiju...maybe ask for a way to "gattai"...?

 

[Rabiator]

The division between Jump/glide/skim seems a bit arbitrary. May I suggest a concept to combine them more seamlessly?

• Omniframes can switch between jump and glide mode at any time, even in flight
• In glide mode, the jump jets can be used for accelerating and "pulling up" for gaining height
• Skim mode as planned until now is removed from the game, it is replaced by players just flying to their destination.

I think this would make more sense, because the frame would get roughly the same capabilities as a VTOL aircraft in real life, which makes sense for a vehicle that can have wings(glide mode) AND thrusters.
Weapons could be disabled during flight, if it is not desired that players do all their fighting as aerial dogfights. Although that could be fun too. Alternatively, some missions could take place in tight places where flying makes no sense.

 

[Aphaz]

The division between Jump/glide/skim seems a bit arbitrary. May I suggest a concept to combine them more seamlessly?

• Omniframes can switch between jump and glide mode at any time, even in flight
• In glide mode, the jump jets can be used for accelerating and "pulling up" for gaining height
• Skim mode as planned until now is removed from the game, it is replaced by players just flying to their destination.

I think this would make more sense, because the frame would get roughly the same capabilities as a VTOL aircraft in real life, which makes sense for a vehicle that can have wings(glide mode) AND thrusters.
Weapons could be disabled during flight, if it is not desired that players do all their fighting as aerial dogfights. Although that could be fun too. Alternatively, some missions could take place in tight places where flying makes no sense.

i get what ur sayin', being able to switch from skim to glide could be nice, and have a point about division being sometimes arbitrary, but perma flight...no thank you...now i'll tell you why, at least for me.
*exploring with no risks (if u can fly above stuff that is) is no fun at all...
*FF didn't have players flying (well, so to speak *remembers open beta and rofls*)
*JJ is more fun and skill friendly,
*too fast map exploration a.k.a. "sweet-spot-slugfest"...no thankyou
*mechs were designed humanoid-like for "manual labour" and skim/glide mode were added later as "extra transport options" so they can't "transform into jets" (*whistles while looking away* ).
*as for "Grummz's side of the deal" i believe i don't need to tell you how much extra work that would be, and i'd love to play ember sooner than 10 years, yk...

 

[Rabiator]

*as for "Grummz's side of the deal" i believe i don't need to tell you how much extra work that would be, and i'd love to play ember sooner than 10 years, yk...

I don't think it would be much extra work if the glide and jump jet part of Firefall was already implemented. Firefall already had gliders that maneuvered like small planes, all they were missing was a source of thrust. So while in glide mode, allow to hit thrusters and you're done.
Edit:
that does not require a Transformers-like change to another shape. Just imagine that in Firefall-style glide mode the thrusters on the feet light up as engines

You have a point about the other things though, they would definitely change the game. But perhaps imitating Firefall too much is not a good idea anyway? The THMPR and the kaiju as planned are already different from Firefall, and I guess they will be improvements.

 

[Aphaz]

my point wasn't "to imitate FF" just used it for example of play style.

ember is "conceptually supposed to be FF's successor", Not FF v2.o...

that said, the project started " 'cuz of FF " (insert ALL reasons here) so for me, "speaking in FF terms" is just a way to more easily convey concepts, since most people here are familiar with ""FF terminology". you'll find in my earlier posts that i specifically said i'm not tryin' to make FF v2.o, nor would i want ember to be "just that", a simple copy of FF...
hope this helps you with my next posts...cheers m8 and wellcome

...also, the transformers part wuz a joke...lol

 

[PIghead Elderberry]

When I think of the difference, I think of the old FF model (jump and glide) and the current Warframe flying (permaflight/hover).

Here are my ramblings which conclude nothing!

==== FF
FF = gliding fun... more crafting option fun!

In the FF model I like the fact that I had more crafting choices (making the game more interesting) to how much height I had in jumps, how much power in the jets, and the gliding mechanic added with the various wings - not to mention the fun of the jump/launch pads.

I really liked the gliding mechanic where I had to climb up to get height to start, and where I might mis-calculate my glide path and end up landing and then engaging in combat or exploration where I landed - unplanned.

Because the FF world was gorgeous with environment and environmental effects and when at its peak always had stuff to do all over, gliding and then landing and running was hugely fun because the good FF had events all over and almost always within a glider flight range.

So, I really loved the FF model.

On the other hand...

==== Warframe
Warframe = different fun... not much to crafting options...

In Warframe it is certainly easier, as you just pop up and fly for as long as you want. That eliminates some of the fun of crafting related to jump/glide in FF but it (for me) adds extra fun as I can hover and look down and take pot shots at things on the ground.

Also, in Warframe, having the missiles launch at me adds a danger factor and fun factor. They seem to handle perma-flight pretty well by making it pretty easy for us to take damage and crash from it.

Now that Warframe has added those flying pod things that you can hijack, it is an extra level of fun!

So, I really love the Warframe model (although the controls aren't as nice as in FF in my opinion).

Conclusion:

Hey - can we have both? Can our frames have FF like jumpjets and the ability for gliding and skimming BUT with limits like in FF due to the restrictions of our jets/jumps/wings as in FF (so we can craft and tweak them) AND AND AND we also (not for this vertical slice demo) have later in game Warframe like flying machines or add-ons that we can use as well.

I could imagine (hope for) some magical blending of the two such that we ALWAYS in our frames have FF flight as an instant option AND we have options for Warframe like flight through external things that we encounter (like stealing the pod in Warframe) which give us limited opportunity for permaflight and hovering etc.

So - I want both eventually, please!

 

[Rabiator]

Some thoughts about flying, crafting and variety:
A few options for every aspect of the game could go a long way there, the options will multiply. For example

• Give the player some freedom in choosing/crafting jump jets, but instead of height and duration you have thrust and duration to play with. Why thrust will soon become obvious...
• The same for the legs in the frame and their run/jump performance
• Add some basic physics where everything has a mass that weighs the frame down, the same thrust won't propel the frame as far.

Now you have a system where not only the jets and legs, but also the entire loadout has an influence in flying, jumping and running. Carrying a heavy gun will give you nice firepower, but jumps and glides will be short and feel sluggish.

I'm currently playing Crossout, where a similar physics system is implemented. It works, you have to make design choices rather than piling on everything you have. I'm not even talking about how Crossout cars can be disassembled by application of firepower, that is something I would not expect from Em8er

 

[MattHunX]

lol...and i wuz thinking of adding lances/halberds but didn't want to give grummz and the guys "too much work" ...rofl
good to know there's a kindred spirit out there...


@MattHunX ...awesome idea for having a weapon in vehicle/skimmer mode...must admit i haven't thought of that and it sounds AWESOME!
...go, go...anime battle skimmers vs fast kaiju...maybe ask for a way to "gattai"...?

Thanks for the kind words. Although, I didn't mean having a weapon in vehicle/skim mode. That was just a reference to my Transformers: Prime fan-character. It'd be interesting just to have artillery weapons that could arc from one spot on the map to another. Squad-mates could 'spot' targets for one another to help them aim. And even then aiming would be a b****. But they would pack an earth-quaking punch, for sure. And of course, friggin' rail-guns, for long-range, would be neat.

Which reminds me...don't ask how...but it reminded me of dual-wielding smaller weapons. Well, alright, I was thinking of dual-wielding sniper-rifles, too. Couldn't resist. That would be too much, but dual-wielding SMGs or big-ass pistols would also be neat. I mean, considering our frames will hold the weapons, or they'll be mounted on them, the weapons will be larger than what our human character would hold, so even a pistol-type gun would be fairly big.

 

[MattHunX]

I don't think it would be much extra work if the glide and jump jet part of Firefall was already implemented. Firefall already had gliders that maneuvered like small planes, all they were missing was a source of thrust. So while in glide mode, allow to hit thrusters and you're done.
Edit:
that does not require a Transformers-like change to another shape. Just imagine that in Firefall-style glide mode the thrusters on the feet light up as engines

You have a point about the other things though, they would definitely change the game. But perhaps imitating Firefall too much is not a good idea anyway? The THMPR and the kaiju as planned are already different from Firefall, and I guess they will be improvements.

Just to say, again, there's no need for our frames to transform to switch between flight (shouldn't even be flight just GLIDE) skim or normal-mode. It should be the same as in FireFall, but flying GLIDING wouldn't require a launch or jump-pad. We should be able do it anywhere, anytime by launching into the air. An elevated position shouldn't be needed, either.

With that said, should skimming be the new sprint...or should we have them be separate so we could sprint on ground, but skimming would be amphibious so we could do it on both ground and over bodies of water? But, then...we wouldn't need sprint. Unless, skimming would be a faster type of movement than sprinting with our frame's feet. So we'd have walk>run>spring>skim>flight/glide.

 

[Torgue_Joey]

Just to say, again, there's no need for our frames to transform to switch between flight (shouldn't even be flight just GLIDE) skim or normal-mode. It should be the same as in FireFall, but flying GLIDING wouldn't require a launch or jump-pad. We should be able do it anywhere, anytime by launching into the air. An elevated position shouldn't be needed, either.

With that said, should skimming be the new sprint...or should we have them be separate so we could sprint on ground, but skimming would be amphibious so we could do it on both ground and over bodies of water? But, then...we wouldn't need sprint. Unless, skimming would be a faster type of movement than sprinting with our frame's feet. So we'd have walk>run>spring>skim>flight/glide.

SKIMMING IS FASTER THAN SPINT.
BUT SUICIDAL FOR COMBAT. JUST ALTERNATIVE TO FAST TRAVEL.
YOUR ABILITY AND SKILLZ WILL BE ON COOLDOWN AFTER EXITING SKIM MODE BEFORE YOUR FRAME IS COMBAT READY.

 

[Pandagnome]

Just imagine that in Firefall-style glide mode the thrusters on the feet light up as engines

Yes

Now that Warframe has added those flying pod things that you can hijack, it is an extra level of fun!

Those are alot of fun!

I could imagine (hope for) some magical blending of the two such that we ALWAYS in our frames have FF flight as an instant option AND we have options for Warframe like flight through external things that we encounter (like stealing the pod in Warframe) which give us limited opportunity for permaflight and hovering etc.

So - I want both eventually, please!

I add my please too

But perhaps imitating Firefall too much is not a good idea anyway? The THMPR and the kaiju as planned are already different from Firefall, and I guess they will be improvements.

Em8er is going to be another kind of beast i sense it!

 

[Aphaz]

i get where ur coming from, but i'll still cast my vote for no perma flight...sry

 

[Pandagnome]

i get where ur coming from, but i'll still cast my vote for no perma flight...sry

boooo

 

[MattHunX]

SKIMMING IS FASTER THAN SPINT.
BUT SUICIDAL FOR COMBAT. JUST ALTERNATIVE TO FAST TRAVEL.
YOUR ABILITY AND SKILLZ WILL BE ON COOLDOWN AFTER EXITING SKIM MODE BEFORE YOUR FRAME IS COMBAT READY.

Oh, yeah. I forgot all that. Sorry!

 

[Aphaz]

armament options...

since each frame will have "special privileges" in the weapon department, why not go "plus-ultra" (rofl)
Light Omni - may use a melee weapon and a pistol as an option instead of 2 melee weapons
Medium Omni - may use a rifle and combat shield as an option instead of 2 rifles. a combat shield (gundam style) would be a weaker version of the heavy frame shield but would still act it's part in defending the omni while it shoots
Heavy Omni - may use shield and a 2hander at the same time...or as someone before said "a biga** version of a standard "Zweihander " weapon"

also...

since we have 2 weapon sets and a shoulder mounted weapon, then having 2 abilities and maybe a HKM would fit the bill perfectly.
we would then have 2 weapon slots, 2 multi-purpose slots (shoulder mounted and the hkm), and 2 ability slots (that could even be used to hold passive abilities or active ones)
that would mean we have 6 skills at or disposal to mould our very own omni...slurp

 

[Aphaz]

MASS / PWR / CPU - Take the power back!

mah, you can think of this 1 as a rant post if ya want...
...I'd VERYMUCHLIKETHATTHANKYOU if the devs find some way that is like/similar to the method in Open Beta FF, though with a better and/or greater control for/to the players (which should make individual style more so).

MASS - the max mass an omni can carry before it all starts slowing the frame down (may compensate some with extra power allocation or processor priorities or smt). aside from the obvious slow down maybe affect the omni's turn speed (if legs too hvy or smt) or slow melee or longer aim time if arms

PWR - literally "the juice that keeps it all going" (reactor dependant, + other factors). would we like to be able to mess with it...YEEESSS!!...do we want it detailed...POssibly...do we want it complex...NO THANK YOU....
that said, being able to mess around with the prw allocation settings (aside from ATT/DEF/MOV ofc) would be nice so maybe simply making a set of categories (like Movement (such as combat and travel movement); Armaments (such as weapons and abilities); Shields (such as protective shields and life support) or/nad a few others) and then make the "increment in power given affect ALL Aspects of said category equally in some way", such as the increment in power to ARMAMENTS is equally distributed between weapons and abilities or some such
ofc, straining the reactor by maxin' out consumption should also be reflected in some way (like overheat for guzzling over longer times, and instant shutdown for insta-power-slurps)

CPU - if it's got a computer inside, then it needs two things to function...juice (covered earlier), and processing power (weather hard or soft ware). this could regulate the max number of active tasks (omnies with insuficient CPU power may need to "stop shooting to activate an ability before shooting again" or "the max number of active "passives" at any given time" or some such).

the main reason i'm hung on it is because in Open Beta Firefall you couldn't "wear all purple" even when u maxed the frame. THIS Amazingly Simple Rrestriction-Thingy caused the players to really start thinking "how much of each do they want" which created an amazing plethora of individual works. after launch it just become an annoying "DPS Hunt"...so there you have it

cheers

 

[Aphaz]

since the word is out that all of FF's abilities are goin' to appear in ember, i'll repost what i wrote for FF while it was still alive...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EtMdf0PkDvjWTy-eNXr4ECL4AlyQ76-L/view?usp=sharing