About hip firing

[Torgue_Joey]

So...um...how would you even aim down the sight in a mech...I mean its arms are way out to the side of your physical body right? I assume there is a small optical camera somewhere near the muzzle of any weapon a mech would be able to pick up and a reticle of where it is pointing would show up in Augmented Reality for the user. I would also have a zoom mode on the camera which could be toggled to display in the corner of the HUD so you can maintain situational awareness while also being able to fine target if needed.

But realistically there wouldn't be any distinction of where you fire from when your in a Mech.

HOW 'BOUT A SMALL AR DISPLAY POPS UP ON THE HUD SHOWING THE ZOOMED CAM.
YOU KNOW, THE SCOPE CONNECTED TO THE FRAME UI INTERFACE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

 

[Omnires]

yeah, the snipers ware just an example, it could ofcourse also work on any kind of rocket launcher or on small clusterfuck missle barrages or help CQC players to precisely hit their target with maybe a FA-combat shotgun or a shoulder mounted heavy calibre autocannon (i smell dual-barrel heavy cannons lol)

You and I are on the same page. I want large back mounted energy cannon on my mecha so powerful that I have to anchor myself to the ground or use the afterburners on my jets every time I fire it just to keep of sliding / flying backwards.

And I know a guy who loves AOEs and likes to make missile boat mechas (a mecha that specializes in holding and firing a lot of missiles and rockets, be it one at a time or all at once) would love to have something like a tactical MOFB (Mother Of All Bombs, one of largest non-nuclear explosions you can get) on the back of his mecha that he can launch at enemies. Even if it has a long set up and arming phase. He'll make a camp or get he team to protect him while he'll set up the attack. For an example of things like this, think of things like the Giga Missiles from Armored Core.

So...um...how would you even aim down the sight in a mech...I mean its arms are way out to the side of your physical body right? I assume there is a small optical camera somewhere near the muzzle of any weapon a mech would be able to pick up and a reticle of where it is pointing would show up in Augmented Reality for the user. I would also have a zoom mode on the camera which could be toggled to display in the corner of the HUD so you can maintain situational awareness while also being able to fine target if needed.

But realistically there wouldn't be any distinction of where you fire from when your in a Mech.

I was thinking of that too. That is why I pointed out things like pilots who fly fighter jets or attack helicopters in my first post. Because they can't see their own weapons from the cockpit to the weapons themselves have things like cameras, lasers, and/or radar on them always showing what they are pointed at. And that data is displayed on the pilot's HUD, some of newer helmets they make pilots wear in real fight use AR (Augmented Reality) to help them fly and aim at targets. So this would totally make sense to me in a sci-fi game using advanced technology that we would also be able to use things like AR to see and target enemies.

HOW 'BOUT A SMALL AR DISPLAY POPS UP ON THE HUD SHOWING THE ZOOMED CAM.
YOU KNOW, THE SCOPE CONNECTED TO THE FRAME UI INTERFACE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

I also like this idea because if you watch movies and tv shows that have a lot of spaceships and/or mecha in them. You'll know that when they want to see something from will far away they just change the channel on the display to a camera that is already zoomed on on the target or they have a picture in picture setup so they can keep track of the target without limiting their own field of vision. I would like to able to have opens like that as part of my HUD in the game.

 

[Dreamin]

Kind of makes it seem like having maxed out Mammoth frame with Orange level everything AND an almost auto targeting system Thumping with a stock thumper outside Copa in the old days. It all just seems way OP to me, lets remember the the mistakes of the Rhino back then.

Are you trying to recreate them to implement here with a couple tweaks?

 

[Pandagnome]

I got a good feeling from what we learned from firefall we are in a better situation and prepared than the first time. Also this time we have mechs that we can hop in.

All the testing stuff i cant wait, for those to provide their feedback when we really get to test the demo with influential tweaks that can polish the game!

 

[Omnires]

Kind of makes it seem like having maxed out Mammoth frame with Orange level everything AND an almost auto targeting system Thumping with a stock thumper outside Copa in the old days. It all just seems way OP to me, lets remember the the mistakes of the Rhino back then.

Are you trying to recreate them to implement here with a couple tweaks?

Nope, just thinking of ways to make a futuristic sci-fi mecha game seem more plausible to make it easier for of us that know how machines and weapons work to keep our suspension of disbelief. It is key to helping people stay in game immersion and enjoy things. Immersion can break really easy if the rules and logic of the game doesn't make sense. Plus adding more depth to the game can only help it. It gets people thinking and trying new things. Plus with more depth you can have enemies vary wildly from each other and give them complex behaviors to always challenge the players.

Plus I don't think any of the things we listed in the thread so far are OP. Something is only OP if it gives you an unfair advantage where the enemy has no real way of countering it. Like I pointed out before there are ways to counter these game mechanics. For example like how I pointed that Fire Control System (FCS) in the Armored Core games are just different types of aim bots you can add to your mecha, but the FCS can be countered by making odd fast movements, or using decoys, or things using jammers. Given how some of the enemies are going to be animal-like monsters, some of them might be hard to lock-on too because they run around really fast. Some of the enemies might be able to throw up a lot of radar jamming chaff or magnetic dust into the air making it so the computer can't see them. And other is a lot of other ways to counter this stuff.

An easy way to do it is to think of how the military now adays do things and counters things, then think what could future humans on an other planet using mecha to fight aliens do?

 

[Pandagnome]

just thinking of ways to make a futuristic sci-fi mecha game seem more plausible to make it easier for of us that know how machines and weapons work to keep our suspension of disbelief. It is key to helping people stay in game immersion and enjoy things. Immersion can break really easy if the rules and logic of the game doesn't make sense. Plus adding more depth to the game can only help it. It gets people thinking and trying new things.

Lets say someone wants to know more about the game and there is alittle tab where you can get more information or less information like a basic and advanced. For those who want the straight to the point info they would have the basic which tells it as it is. For those who want to read up more on finer details which could give clues and plans on how to tackle a task or find something they could read more etc.

Tutorials should be done in a way you can go your own pace and come back to it not all of us grasp the concept of the game at the same time. Say you complete it the first time and have done well the 2nd time it changes and adds an element such as an obstruction, a different enemy type etc The skills will still be the same but you have to think of how to finish, there will be tips that can appear which you can disable or kept as option.

I like futuristic stuff because there is too alot of games with concepts of reality sometimes for the sake of not making sense is good too. We might not comprehend an alien tech for example doesn't mean it shouldn't exist maybe we get to learn its secrets as we continue to play the game and that is where artifacts, bp, audio files, maps and the story come in to help us understand the technology, the history the planet and its surroundings better.

I still want a squid mind controlling fun gun like in saints row 3

An easy way to do is to think of how the military now adays do things and counters things, then think what could future humans on an other planet using mecha to fight aliens do?

For example i was thinking of the invisible man when they couldnt see him there was some liquid that reveals him but could get it removed easily by example heat , even the rain showed the outline.

Say something was moving fast
- traps to slow it down e.g. mines, trip wire, honey pot, decoy, cat-gun meow PeW pew, make shift bunker/ hole to lure them in, surroundings such as icey surface, larva pit, boulders, smoke screen, flash bang, tracking bug to follow high priority enemy
- use an aoe weapon to blast so your more likely to hit it
- motion sensor to detect where it is
- various scans thermal imaging and acoustic
- Emp to counter enemies with tech
- distress becon for anyone nearby to help you
- Sniper

Enemy
- rapid movement & agility
- Stealth/phasing
- tech such as jammers, decoy, stun projectiles, nets
- dig into the ground and come out from nowhere
- signal roar to attract others for support
- Darkness clouds the place with a dark mist in a small area think of how a squid releases ink in defense, then it escapes or
goes for an additional attack.

 

[Omnires]

Lets say someone wants to know more about the game and there is alittle tab where you can get more information or less information like a basic and advanced. For those who want the straight to the point info they would have the basic which tells it as it is. For those who want to read up more on finer details which could give clues and plans on how to tackle a task or find something they could read more etc.

I think because it makes sense. Because we are terraforming the planet. Meaning that one of the jobs we'll have besides fighting the hostiles aliens is going to be studying and researching both the environment and any life we find. So for example let's say a new area in the game opens up as because massive cave system in the mountains was just found. So command wants as much information as they can get about the caves. So we as players have go into the caves and map out all the tunnels and chambers we can get too. We also have find out how the cave was made, are they natural or did some lifeforms make them or was a mix of both? What are the caves made of and are there any resources we can use? Is there any life in and around the cave system? If so how do they survive and reproduce? Are any of the lifeforms aggressively hostile, and if so what are some tactics we can use to protect ourselves? Note how the goal is to protect not to kill. The first goal is always to try and ward them off. With killing be a last resort. You know the same rules every normal expedition or military operation that happens in an area with dangerous wildlife.

And things like this would make the part of the player base who are explorers and lore hunters really happy, as they get the most enjoyments out of things by exploring the world and finding hidden things.

Tutorials should be done in a way you can go your own pace and come back to it not all of us grasp the concept of the game at the same time. Say you complete it the first time and have done well the 2nd time it changes and adds an element such as an obstruction, a different enemy type etc The skills will still be the same but you have to think of how to finish, there will be tips that can appear which you can disable or kept as option.

Something like this would also be great for players who have friends and family who many want to try the game but doesn't want make an account just yet. For example, say around the holidays you play the game and family member likes what they see. They want try and play the game but don't know anything about it, they might not even have played an MMO before. So you let them play as your character after you go into the training room. These they can learn as much as they want about the game at the other own speed. Only focusing on they stuff they feel they need to learn before trying it for real. Just like how in real life pilots and such will spend a lot of time doing training simulations before they are allowed use what they learned in the real world. And because it is a training simulation you can program in some worst case scenarios as part of it make sure they know what to do if and when things go wrong.

I still want a squid mind controlling fun gun like in saints row 3

I'm not saying things like that can't exist in the game. As long as you make it sound reasonable enough to exist for the people who have knowledge of things like biology and weapons you'll be fine and wouldn't break game immersion. Like I pointed out in a different thread we do know that zombies and mind-control do exist in real life because of how some parasites work to take over the body or brain of the host. As long as you can explain the how and why such a being and weapon would exist it add in more fun to the game of people who like looking for lore and learning the past of the world. And might be able add in a bit of tangential learning to game. Remember the "sci" in sci-fi stands for "science".

I think this video also talks about something we should be thinking about when describing this game. Is the game science fiction or is it science fantasy? Because that makes a big difference to that player base the game is aiming for and why kind of people stay with the game.

For example i was thinking of the invisible man when they couldnt see him there was some liquid that reveals him but could get it removed easily by example heat , even the rain showed the outline.

Say something was moving fast
- traps to slow it down e.g. mines, trip wire, honey pot, decoy, cat-gun meow PeW pew, make shift bunker/ hole to lure them in, surroundings such as icey surface, larva pit, boulders, smoke screen, flash bang, tracking bug to follow high priority enemy
- use an aoe weapon to blast so your more likely to hit it
- motion sensor to detect where it is
- various scans thermal imaging and acoustic
- Emp to counter enemies with tech
- distress becon for anyone nearby to help you
- Sniper

Enemy
- rapid movement & agility
- Stealth/phasing
- tech such as jammers, decoy, stun projectiles, nets
- dig into the ground and come out from nowhere
- signal roar to attract others for support
- Darkness clouds the place with a dark mist in a small area think of how a squid releases ink in defense, then it escapes or
goes for an additional attack.

One of things about about invisible beings in stories that I always disliked is how turning invisible magically make it so no one can find them. But in reality is doesn't work that way. For example someone as the ability to turn invisible to hide. Would them turning invisible effect a blind person's or a person who use to hunting in the dark odds of finding them? No, because they don't relay on light alone, or at all in the case of the blind person, to find things. So you can still sense where they are by things like sound, heat, touch, smell, and other tells. But if you relay heavy on your eyes to find things than you can do tricks like kicking up a lot of dust into the air and look for the outline of the person, or spread something like paint on the ground so you can see their foot steps, or watch what the other animals in the area are doing as them might be able to sense something you can (like how hunters can know when there is a large predator around by paying attention to prey animals.). So there are easy ways to counter invisible enemies if you know what you are doing.

 

[Pandagnome]

I think this video also talks about something we should be thinking about when describing this game. Is the game science fiction or is it science fantasy? Because that makes a big difference to that player base the game is aiming for and why kind of people stay with the game.

I like a good mix of science fantasy & Science fiction would be great but could it be possible to get the right amount?
Say it was mostly sci-fi with elements of fantasy would that be possible?

When ever i see a film even those short movies it makes me think of how a game can make me feel like part as one of the characters experiencing the action the choices and connection to the other characters you build along the way. Science fiction makes it believable and yet science fantasy makes it just that bit more interesting!

 

[Omnires]

I like a good mix of science fantasy & Science fiction would be great but could it be possible to get the right amount?
Say it was mostly sci-fi with elements of fantasy would that be possible?

I think it is possible, but it is a really fine line to try and walk. You have to set up the rules of world long before hand and make sure that nothing can break those rules. Even in fantasy stories that try to be realistic with their magic, they hard set rules for those magics and almost treat them like a science. This video is a good example of what I mean.

You can also go the other way around with things. You can make real life seem like a fantasy just by changing your view on it.

 

[Nunaden]

Even in fantasy stories that try to be realistic with their magic, they hard set rules for those magics and almost treat them like a science. This video is a good example of what I mean.

That only applies on "Hard" magic systems such as Alchemy in FMA - the magic in eg LotR isnt as hardcoded and less sciency (mostly cuz magic is freaking god-power there ffs)

 

[Omnires]

That only applies on "Hard" magic systems such as Alchemy in FMA - the magic in eg LotR isnt as hardcoded and less sciency (mostly cuz magic is freaking god-power there ffs)

True, but also just like the finding the right level and types of technology to use in to sci-fi stories. Finding the right level and types of magic to use in fantasy stories are key.

I'm not against the idea of using magic in the game as long as it makes sense for the game itself. It is not like there are not a lot of examples of good stories that use both science and magic in their stories. Hell there are a few that even mixed the two making so that science and technology and fill in the things that magic is lacking, and vice versa. A good example of this off the top of my had is things like technomancy. Technomancy is a term in science fiction and fantasy that refers to a category of magical abilities that affect technology, or to magical powers that are gained through the use of technology. I'm not opposed to giving my mecha I gun that uses magical bullets and when I fire it as full power large magic ring form in front of that amplifies all magic that pass through it making it larger and more powerful. But again, does it make sense for the world we are in and how can we do such things without breaking immersion for the people who enough about magic and/or machines?

At end of the day having a fun and immersive game is key. And a key part of immersion is making rules and logic for the game that doesn't come into conflict with each other nor feel out of place because it'll send out to many warning signs in the brain. Like when you get are really into a movie and then something happens that doesn't make sense that pulls you out of the experience. Even if movie was good those moments that pull you out of the experience will always limit your enjoyment of the movie. It is the same with games. The best games are the ones they never pull you out of the experience because nothing about them sets off to many alarms in your mind that force you back into reality.

P.S.
About soft magic.