How about some realistic combat outside of mech?

[Torgue_Joey]

The funny things to me is video game logic doesn't always make sense. As some of you can tell by how I like to do things like point out physics, thermodynamics, biology, and psychology. I don't care if it is in realism or in fantasy I just want things to make sense and be logical.

And the truth of the matter is any race of beings smart enough to terraform whole planets and have the ability to do so would also have the knowledge and ability to change their own bodies at will to be able to survival anywhere they want. Meaning the act of terraforming a planet to better fit their need is an active choice born out of wanting the change the planet rather than change themselves. This mean there is nothing stopping the Humans from doing things like changing their DNA to allow them to live on the planet unaided without terraforming other than personal choice and beliefs.

And this brings up some anthropological questions of why this choice was made and carried out in the first place. Because realistically culturally and socially there should be at least some people who reject the idea of terraforming and the need to use things like mecha to survive. This would be groups of people who change their bodies to better survive on the planet and give themselves the ability to fight hostiles unaided (like I pointed earlier in this thread there are options to take for beings to take even if they want to kill beings who are relatively giants to them). This also means that some humans would take the idea the Tsihu had of turning into giant kaiju and adapt it to turn into giant humans or titans rather than jumping into a mecha. So realistically speaking there should be at least a small group of Humans who choose to survive and fight without the aid of guns and mecha in favor of natural and biological weapons (fangs, claws, spikes, stingers, acid, light, sound, toxins, and so on).

Also such a group of people would have an option to fight that the Humans who focus on mechas wouldn't. Using parasitic tactics to take over the body and/or minds of the Tsihu to have them turn on each other. So if I was a member of that goup of Humans and the Tsihu attacked in their kaiju form I could just jump on their backs or heads grab on to their spine or brains and start controlling them like a puppet to attack other Tsihu.

Adding real world logic to games, sometimes makes things a lot fun and scarier when you really think about it. lol

DIDN'T WORKED OUT FOR THAT BATSH*T CRAZY ELUSIVE MAN. THOUGHT HE COULD ADVANCE MANKIND BY A THAUSAND FOLD WITH SH*T REAPER TECHNOLOGY AND (MIND)CONTROL THEM. HOW CRAZY IS THAT SH*T?

 

[Fillmore]

And the truth of the matter is any race of beings smart enough to terraform whole planets and have the ability to do so would also have the knowledge and ability to change their own bodies at will to be able to survival anywhere they want...

...This would be groups of people who change their bodies to better survive on the planet and give themselves the ability to fight hostiles unaided...

... @Omnires, I trimmed down your quote only for brevity in this post, not to leave out good info.

This brings up an interesting line of thought. Perhaps humans in this future have developed highly advanced genetic customization technology. However, even if the technology exists, that doesn't necessarily mean it would be used on humans. For example, we currently have cloning technology, but we don't use it on humans. Why? It's taboo, there are ethical ramifications, there are legal concerns.

It seems to me that in a timeline where humans developed Mech-Suits and terraforming, they may very well have cultural and legal prohibitions in place against human genetic modification. Perhaps it's illegal to do genetic modification on humans. That's how it is on Star Trek, which as we all know, is the greatest sci fi universe ever ever Could there be genetic super humans in this world? Sure, but they would either be criminals like Khan Noonien Singh or hiding their true natures like Julian Bashir.

Or, perhaps genetic modification is available to everybody, but is heavily controlled by governments or corporations. Maybe only sinister government agents get them.

Just some food for thought.

 

[EvilKitten]

And the truth of the matter is any race of beings smart enough to terraform whole planets and have the ability to do so would also have the knowledge and ability to change their own bodies at will to be able to survival anywhere they want. Meaning the act of terraforming a planet to better fit their need is an active choice born out of wanting the change the planet rather than change themselves. This mean there is nothing stopping the Humans from doing things like changing their DNA to allow them to live on the planet unaided without terraforming other than personal choice and beliefs.

Just as an aside...I take it you are a fan of the Old Man's War book series?

 

[Omnires]

... @Omnires, I trimmed down your quote only for brevity in this post, not to leave out good info.

This brings up an interesting line of thought. Perhaps humans in this future have developed highly advanced genetic customization technology. However, even if the technology exists, that doesn't necessarily mean it would be used on humans. For example, we currently have cloning technology, but we don't use it on humans. Why? It's taboo, there are ethical ramifications, there are legal concerns.

It seems to me that in a timeline where humans developed Mech-Suits and terraforming, they may very well have cultural and legal prohibitions in place against human genetic modification. Perhaps it's illegal to do genetic modification on humans. That's how it is on Star Trek, which as we all know, is the greatest sci fi universe ever ever Could there be genetic super humans in this world? Sure, but they would either be criminals like Khan Noonien Singh or hiding their true natures like Julian Bashir.

Or, perhaps genetic modification is available to everybody, but is heavily controlled by governments or corporations. Maybe only sinister government agents get them.

Just some food for thought.

And I would like to explore the anthropological side of things a bit more to understand the reasons why they do the things they do. What are the key points of their culture, what are their core beliefs, are there any themes and/or overarching philosophies guiding their society, and how so they see themselves and word/universe around them? Knowing the timeline and the events leading up to the game is good, but knowing the reason behind the events and their driving forces is better. It would allow people like me to make educated guesses about how different events would and could be most likely be viewed by the people living in that timeline.

Just as an aside...I take it you are a fan of the Old Man's War book series?

I never read those books. But I did think about joining the space program in my younger days and debated the terraforming project, which is a real on-going debate that is still happening in some scientific circles, before my interest lead me to other things. But part of the debate in some groups is "Do we have the right to change other worlds to suit our needs?" and "Do we risk destroying other forms of life just to spread our reach farther?" and other such things as people view terraforming as also changing the natural evolution of that world, if not the natural evolution of the galaxy itself.

 

[Torgue_Joey]

And I would like to explore the anthropological side of things a bit more to understand the reasons why they do the things they do. What are the key points of their culture, what are their core beliefs, are there any themes and/or overarching philosophies guiding their society, and how so they see themselves and word/universe around them? Knowing the timeline and the events leading up to the game is good, but knowing the reason behind the events and their driving forces is better. It would allow people like me to make educated guesses about how different events would and could be most likely be viewed by the people living in that timeline.


I never read those books. But I did think about joining the space program in my younger days and debated the terraforming project, which is a real on-going debate that is still happening in some scientific circles, before my interest lead me to other things. But part of the debate in some groups is "Do we have the right to change other worlds to suit our needs?" and "Do we risk destroying other forms of life just to spread our reach farther?" and other such things as people view terraforming as also changing the natural evolution of that world, if not the natural evolution of the galaxy itself.

Debates like that are utter sh*t and pointless. If no one give us the right to terraform, then we give OURSELVES THE F*CKING RIGHTS.
if we have the right to invade other planets, so do they have the right to destroy us as an act of defence.
THAT'S RIGHT YOU BLOODY RABBITS, BRING IT ON!

Such debates ends mostly with "WHO IN THE BLOODY UNIVERSE HAS THE F*CKING RIGHT TO TELL US WHAT'S RIGHT AND WHAT NOT?"
GOD? IT CAN'T EVEN TOUCH ME! lol

No one can say man does not belong here. Man can go wherever he want, and he will do plenty when he get there.

Good or evil, it's a matter of perspective.
AND EXPLOSION ARE THE MOST NEUTRAL THING YOU CAN GET.

Wanted to write something about the interests for story, biology and crap, but that's a tad to off topic

 

[Omnires]

Debates like that are utter sh*t and pointless. If no one give us the right to terraform, then we give OURSELVES THE F*CKING RIGHTS.
if we have the right to invade other planets, so do they have the right to destroy us as an act of defence.
THAT'S RIGHT YOU BLOODY RABBITS, BRING IT ON!

Such debates ends mostly with "WHO IN THE BLOODY UNIVERSE HAS THE F*CKING RIGHT TO TELL US WHAT'S RIGHT AND WHAT NOT?"
GOD? IT CAN'T EVEN TOUCH ME! lol

No one can say man does not belong here. Man can go wherever he want, and he will do plenty when he get there.

Good or evil, it's a matter of perspective.
AND EXPLOSION ARE THE MOST NEUTRAL THING YOU CAN GET.

Wanted to write something about the interests for story, biology and crap, but that's a tad to off topic

But that logic of "we do it because we can" kind of reminds of things like

 

[yapushkin]

Like why tho?

I don't see anything good from trying to combine arcady gameplay with slow and tactical gameplay in an arcady game. It would just be extremely frustrating to be outside the frame and people will probably never do it, which would result in wasted development time that is required to make and support something like that.

Something of this kind was already realised in Titanfall, i bet something similiar will fit greatly in this game.

 

[Vladplaya]

Something of this kind was already realised in Titanfall, i bet something similiar will fit greatly in this game.

Except Titanfall is not even remotely realistic and is just an arcade shooter. Plus most of the normal gameplay in Titanfall is outside the mech. There is nothing realistic about it and it's nothing like ArmA.
So it's completely unrelated to what OP is asking for and I have no clue why you would even bring it up, other than it's a game that has mechs and foot soldiers playing together, which has been done by bunch of other games years before Titanfall, off top of my head would be Blacklight, Planetside, Battlefield, Section 8 and probably bunch of others.

 

[yapushkin]

Except Titanfall is not even remotely realistic and is just an arcade shooter. Plus most of the normal gameplay in Titanfall is outside the mech. There is nothing realistic about it and it's nothing like ArmA.
So it's completely unrelated to what OP is asking for and I have no clue why you would even bring it up, other than it's a game that has mechs and foot soldiers playing together, which has been done by bunch of other games years before Titanfall, off top of my head would be Blacklight, Planetside, Battlefield, Section 8 and probably bunch of others.

This was you who said that Ember will be "arcady game" in the first place, so what is this complains about realism? I brought first game of that type i could remember.

And i do agree that most of the normal gameplay in Titanfall is outside the mech, but why cant we do same but in reverse, most of normal gameplay is inside mech. And pilot himself will show up for expample if mech was destroyed and he "catapulted" or something like that.

 

[Vladplaya]

@yapushkin Have you even like read the original post of this topic?

 

[yapushkin]

@yapushkin Have you even like read the original post of this topic?

Yes, but my thought is that this must not be "realistic", but more arcady.

 

[Vladplaya]

Yes, but my thought is that this must not be "realistic", but more arcady.

Agreed, but you should address OP with that suggestion lol

 

[TankHunter678]

The only way to do combat outside of the mech would have to be arcady. If it was realistic the moment the shields go down is the moment our character would die (unless HDM armor plating holds), and if we take even a single hit outside of the mech we would die since the enemy is using weapons meant for taking down a mech or outright killing the pilot of the mech.

 

[Vedemin]

Except Titanfall is not even remotely realistic and is just an arcade shooter. Plus most of the normal gameplay in Titanfall is outside the mech. There is nothing realistic about it and it's nothing like ArmA.
So it's completely unrelated to what OP is asking for and I have no clue why you would even bring it up, other than it's a game that has mechs and foot soldiers playing together, which has been done by bunch of other games years before Titanfall, off top of my head would be Blacklight, Planetside, Battlefield, Section 8 and probably bunch of others.

Oh, he was close. I was talking about only damage model, not the whole tactical operations etc. I know that Titanfall hasn't got the most realistic damage.

What we know is that Tsihu are going to massacre us if we wouldn't be in a vehicle. What about bandits and other less furbelows creatures? Can we please get a defense method? If our gun would deal high damage than we would have a chance against other humans.

 

[Torgue_Joey]

What we know is that Tsihu are going to massacre us if we wouldn't be in a vehicle. What about bandits and other less furbelows creatures?

They're Rabbit food as well, YEAH USE THOSE IDIOTS AS A BAIT.

Can we please get a defense method? If our gun would deal high damage than we would have a chance against other humans.

pretty sure we'll have an sidearm as backup. A taser or stun gun might be safer.... OH GAWD, I FEEL LIKE A F*CKING PUSSY WITHOUT MY SYBIAN!

but against other humans....... I'LL CRUSH EM WITH MY OMNIB*TCH, REASON ENOUGH FOR THEM TO NEVER LEAVE THEIR STUPID HOUSE. A BANDIT..... BAH, BANDIT MY ASS. WHAT THEY WANNA ROB? US BADASS REAPER ASS? BLOODY RABBITS?
IF THOSE STUPID MORONS REALLY WANNA LEAVE TOWN TO BECOME A BANDIT PUSSY....... I SAY LET NATURAL SELECTION DO IT'S F*CKING WORK.

 

[EvilKitten]

What about bandits and other less furbelows creatures? Can we please get a defense method? If our gun would deal high damage than we would have a chance against other humans.

What I said on page one, with extra bolding for readability:

P.S. What bandits? You are fighting Tsihu and wildlife with minimal human presence. That's right, those Tsihu that Mark said were going to rip us apart while IN our mech's let alone outside of them. Remember that this is a terraforming project, unlike Firefall there is no preexisting human presence.

...and the only place where humans can exist is inside the small bubbles that reapers are fighting in, there simply is no place for bandits to survive undetected. Yeah, I am aware that there are 28 worlds of which some could be slated to be considered "bandits", but lets think logically here. How is a bandit/raider/pirate faction going to get to EM-8ER, avoid whatever military ships are in orbit of the planet, set up their own terraforming project without anyone else knowing, design defenses to resist the Tsihu and native wildlife and repel them easily enough to then also attack other human settlements.

Realistically the only human factions that are going to be on Em-8er are going to be world government sized factions with a reasonable space military, either a single faction or more likely a cooperative (with corporate infighting) coalition. Outside of game lore I also wouldn't assign any of the 28 factions as bandit types because those factions are prime real estate for expansions down the road.

Also to point out that any human held weapon is going to do a fraction of the damage when compared to the one your mech is capable of carrying. Plus you will have no mech shield, your human character by comparison would realistically have a handful of HP so a single attack that lands would cut you in half.

I am not saying we won't be getting out of our suits, but it shouldn't ever be during combat.