Moving away from the term MMO

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Bl4ckhunter

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Jul 26, 2016
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#21
Honestly mmo doesn't mean a thing but i'm not sure getting fancy with invented definitions is going to help any, just call it a multiplayer fps and be done with it, i'm not sure the term wargame means anything to most people and tagging online on a multiplayer game these days seems superfluous to me.
 
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Adrian

Terraformer
Jul 26, 2016
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#26
I consider my self a mmo gamer at heart and i am more likely to check out a game with the mmo tag then one without it, but here i seem to be in the minority on this one. If Mark wants to get away from the term with Ember i have nothing against it. I do understand that the term has been getting some hate in the past years and i do understand why would someone want to distance his game from the term, but i don't think invented definitions is the way to go.
Is it the first of it's kind to need one? Do any of you feel the need to explain what those letters stand for each time you mention the game anywhere? If the game can already fit good into a genre, coming up with new terms, but when asked you will most likely explain in already existing ones, will just leave a pretentious impression. What's wrong with a simple PvE(or co-op) multiplayer(or online) sandbox(if you consider it) wargame(or FPS/TPS/Shooter,etc), anything simple to understand it's fine imo. Plus new terms are not widely and easily accepted. Just think about how big LoL was/is and how hard was the moba term accepted. Years after you still hear people refusing to say the term.
 

Btabc

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Jul 28, 2016
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#27
I remember this exact same discussion in the beginning of the Firefall forums before there was a game to play (yes, I've been around that long). R5 wanted to avoid the "MMO" tag like the plague but later embraced it.
Was about to mention this exact same thing lol! I might not have been in that group of people that were actually playing, but a friend of mine was and I heard a lot of talk about that (avoiding the MMO tag)

inb4 firefall forums going nuts
too late there haha ;)


On topic, if it helps get the initial parts down then I'm fine with that. I'll be able to HOPEFULLY start being able to fund soon with my new "job" *rolls eyes* it's really a joke of a job... more like something to bring in money and help me get another car after mine bit the dust
 

EvilKitten

Well-Known Member
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Jul 26, 2016
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#29
but i don't think invented definitions is the way to go.
Is it the first of it's kind to need one? Do any of you feel the need to explain what those letters stand for each time you mention the game anywhere? If the game can already fit good into a genre, coming up with new terms, but when asked you will most likely explain in already existing ones, will just leave a pretentious impression. What's wrong with a simple PvE(or co-op) multiplayer(or online) sandbox(if you consider it) wargame(or FPS/TPS/Shooter,etc), anything simple to understand it's fine imo. Plus new terms are not widely and easily accepted. Just think about how big LoL was/is and how hard was the moba term accepted. Years after you still hear people refusing to say the term.
MMO is an invented definition, RTS is an invented definition, FPS is an invented definition. The same question you ask could be and probably has been applied to all of those. The answer is that there is a point where a new genre of games comes out that needs to differentiate itself from what has come before. It isn't merely what the words are as much as what is associated with them. MMO these days is synonymous with "WoW clone". And while yes techncially Ember, and Firefall (beta) were MMO's, they were/are not "WoW clones", so we need something else, just as they needed something before.
 
Jul 27, 2016
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#30
I'm in favor of distancing Ember from the MMO genre. Whenever I hear "MMO", I think of time sinks, grinding, and not being able to have real fun until endgame. Being forced into groups to get any sort of progress is also a perceived drawback.

The terms MMO(RPG), RTS, FPS, MOBA, etc. each describe a style of game and associated gameplay. Ember looks to be a combination of two or more existing styles. There have been a few games that did that sort of thing already, but they sometimes mash together various existing abbreviations in an attempt to describe themselves, if they don't completely adopt one of the simpler terms.

Let's think about what we expect to see in Ember, and then try to make a short, easy abbreviation if possible. Here are a few considerations:

Multiplayer vs Online: Multiplayer implies online, but online doesn't necessarily imply multiplayer. Since it doesn't look like you'll be able to avoid strangers completely, going with Multiplayer would be most appropriate.

Shooter: This describes the interface, gameplay, and pacing one can expect when playing the game. We won't need to differentiate between first and third person perspectives because it will have both.

Arena vs Battlefield vs Open: This tells you the scale of the game world you can expect to inhabit. An arena would be on the level of MOBAs and classic FPS. Battlefields are like beefed-up arenas, in that they are still finite, but of course are much larger. An open world would imply a grand scale, like a continent, planet, or even galaxy. I think there's a better word than "open" to describe something like that, but I can't think of it right now.
 

Adrian

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Jul 26, 2016
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#31
MMO is an invented definition, RTS is an invented definition, FPS is an invented definition. The same question you ask could be and probably has been applied to all of those. The answer is that there is a point where a new genre of games comes out that needs to differentiate itself from what has come before. It isn't merely what the words are as much as what is associated with them. MMO these days is synonymous with "WoW clone". And while yes techncially Ember, and Firefall (beta) were MMO's, they were/are not "WoW clones", so we need something else, just as they needed something before.
Yes and no. First when talking about terms like MMO, RTS, FPS (i do not know gaming history, but just guessing) i highly doubt it was a game that first came up with the definitions, i'm quite it was the need for one and examples like riot with moba are a rare thing (and maybe one of the reasons it was so hardly accepted even though it was a proper term for some of the biggest games in the world). Second if you tag your game with any of those term any gamer in this world will understand what type of game is that, on the other hand call your game a MWS, NOG or OMS and nobody will understand what it is.

Like i said i am not against Ember being moved away from the term MMO, but i am gonna have to disagree with you on why is that term disliked. It is because:
Whenever I hear "MMO", I think of time sinks, grinding, and not being able to have real fun until endgame. Being forced into groups to get any sort of progress is also a perceived drawback.
That's a perfect example with which i agree. I would like to add to what JimmyRussel said repetitive content and unfair cash shops. I don't think there are many that think at MMO's as wow-clones. First I rarely see that term anymore, second that would describe theme-park MMORPG's not the whole MMO space.
 
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Grummz

$6k package
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Ember Dev
Jul 25, 2016
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#33
I remember this exact same discussion in the beginning of the Firefall forums before there was a game to play (yes, I've been around that long). R5 wanted to avoid the "MMO" tag like the plague but later embraced it.
I guess what I'm saying is, we're not going to switch later and call it an MMO. Massive Planetary Wargame...that will keep up on track!

Also, thanks for the spot in the blogs, we'll edit that.
 

Daynen

Active Member
Aug 3, 2016
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#34
The most insidious downside to using a tag like MMO is that, while people immediately understand what kind of game it is, they also ASSUME what kind of game it is and gloss over it. Several posts in this thread have already demonstrated the banality of such a tag: "when I see MMO, I think (fillintheblank.)" Case in point right there. Tags quickly become labels; labels quickly become generalizations; generalizations become--

--wait for it--

Massively. Missed. Opportunities.

Beware the labels.
 
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