[LATEST] Pilot Omniframe Demo is now LIVE!

Nov 13, 2018
740
1,639
93
Massachusetts
#21
Grummz- "But if you want to see the lighting closer to what it will be like, then run it on high settings."

I HOPE THAT THE DEVS KNOW THAT SOME OF US WHEN RUNNING HIGH SETTINGS THE DEMO LOOKS TERRIBLY/ANNOYINGLY DARK AND EVEN RUNNING ON 100% BRIGHTNESS I CAN'T MAKE OUT SOME DETAILS. WHEN STANDING ON THE CORAL I CAN ONLY SEE THE TSI-HU AND OMNIFRAMES WHEN THEY ARE OUTSIDE OF THE SHADOWS OF THE ROCK MOUNDS, OTHER CORAL OR NOT IN FRONT OF A DARK COLORED BACKGROUND. WHEN THEY WALK INTO THE SHADOW OF AN OBJECT THEY DISAPPEAR EXCEPT FOR THE TSI-HU'S GLOWING HEAD AND OMNIFRAMES PLAYER NAME.
I PERSONALLY CAN ONLY TAKE 15 MINUTES PLAYING AND ITS JUST TO MUCH STRAINING ON MY EYES AND STARTS TO ACTUALLY BE UNCOMFORTABLE.
MAYBE BECAUSE I'M USED TO BEING ABLE TO SEE CERTAIN DETAILS IN PAST DEMOS BUT STRAIN TO SEE THEM IN THIS ONE.
 
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Aug 5, 2017
136
318
63
UK
#22
if you want the glider pads back and this back and that back then this game is going to be like the other game and then there should be a new firefall2 game instead so they can bring all the other goodies back to life and bring in some extra for the new fans that way the devs can build on the existing firefall game and add the extra stuff into it and get the game out quicker no brainer just change the name to FIREFALL2
FF2 would have been awesome, as Grummz (Mark Kern) wanted the IP for the original Firefall but Red 5 studios ( if i got it straight?) did'nt want to release it to him. Alot of us also signed a petition to support Grummz attempts but sadly to no avail. BUT, Em-8er is/will be an excellent succesor to FF - ' So say we all ! ' :cool:
 

zdoofop

Tsi-Hu Hunter
Jul 26, 2016
410
522
93
Noneofyourbeeswaxistan
#23
if you want the glider pads back and this back and that back then this game is going to be like the other game and then there should be a new firefall2 game instead so they can bring all the other goodies back to life and bring in some extra for the new fans that way the devs can build on the existing firefall game and add the extra stuff into it and get the game out quicker no brainer just change the name to FIREFALL2
the glider pads were in the previous demo. I merely asked to bring that back, nothing more.
 

Wyntyr

Base Commander
Jul 26, 2016
4,320
8,788
113
Florida
#24
Grummz- "But if you want to see the lighting closer to what it will be like, then run it on high settings."

I HOPE THAT THE DEVS KNOW THAT SOME OF US WHEN RUNNING HIGH SETTINGS THE DEMO LOOKS TERRIBLY/ANNOYINGLY DARK AND EVEN RUNNING ON 100% BRIGHTNESS I CAN'T MAKE OUT SOME DETAILS. WHEN STANDING ON THE CORAL I CAN ONLY SEE THE TSI-HU AND OMNIFRAMES WHEN THEY ARE OUTSIDE OF THE SHADOWS OF THE ROCK MOUNDS, OTHER CORAL OR NOT IN FRONT OF A DARK COLORED BACKGROUND. WHEN THEY WALK INTO THE SHADOW OF AN OBJECT THEY DISAPPEAR EXCEPT FOR THE TSI-HU'S GLOWING HEAD AND OMNIFRAMES PLAYER NAME.
I PERSONALLY CAN ONLY TAKE A COUPLE MINUTES PLAYING AND ITS JUST TO MUCH STRAINING ON MY EYES AND ACTUALLY UNCOMFORTABLE.
MAYBE BECAUSE I'M USED TO BEING ABLE TO SEE CERTAIN DETAILS IN PAST DEMOS BUT STRAIN TO SEE THEM IN THIS ONE.
If they didn't know...THEY KNOW NOW.
 
Nov 13, 2018
740
1,639
93
Massachusetts
#25
If they didn't know...THEY KNOW NOW.
LOLOL I think I was a bit critical LOL.
Another thing I noticed is that sometimes Ill lock 3-4 missiles on a Tsi-hu and they all explode on it... and it just runs away. I experimented with this and can repeat it. Seems to happen most often when i'm at a distance of over 30 meters from target.
 

Pandagnome

Kaiju Slayer
Happy Kaiju
Jul 27, 2016
4,965
6,408
113
Island of Tofu
#26
LOLOL I think I was a bit critical LOL.
Another thing I noticed is that sometimes Ill lock 3-4 missiles on a Tsi-hu and they all explode on it... and it just runs away. I experimented with this and can repeat it. Seems to happen most often when i'm at a distance of over 30 meters from target.
Does the missile have firecracker mode where it just makes big noises and effects and doesn't kill i think this could be it super for new years day and all that.

what if there was a anti-missile missile that ate other missiles say it could eat 5 missiles and you could detonate it remotely or hit someone with the power of 5 missiles in 1 !
 

Nytrouz

Forerunner
Dec 28, 2016
2
4
3
#27
I found a few bugs

1. in the pilote omniframe demo it only works when im connecting to the us server the EU server is just a static frame under the map and on the pacific server its a freefly/spectator cam under the map.

2. in 1. person the ammunition count of th secondary weapon(not the rifel) is in the middle of the screen

3. the rift demo crashes when I try to login it only works when I have my Oculus software running in the background but then this happens eLObh_dZQuK6Zv9VaHkTfw.png
 

Pandagnome

Kaiju Slayer
Happy Kaiju
Jul 27, 2016
4,965
6,408
113
Island of Tofu
#28
1. in the pilote omniframe demo it only works when im connecting to the us server the EU server is just a static frame under the map and on the pacific server its a freefly/spectator cam under the map.
Just tried also the only one working for me was the US server, Pacific and Europe did not work.

Think they need to reset to get it to work.

1. person the ammunition count of th secondary weapon(not the rifel) is in the middle of the screen
Ah yes that 1/1 is alittle strange in its position!

the rift demo crashes when I try to login it only works when I have my Oculus software running in the background but then this happens
That looks like a nice art work it reminds me of mytosis/agar

I have no idea about oculus software working with Em8er :confused:
 
Likes: Markolis

Faeryl

Omni Ace
Greeter
Kaiju Slayer
Jul 26, 2016
466
1,590
93
Planet Earth, USA, East Coast
discord.gg
#30
I found a few bugs
1. in the pilote omniframe demo it only works when im connecting to the us server the EU server is just a static frame under the map and on the pacific server its a freefly/spectator cam under the map.

2. in 1. person the ammunition count of th secondary weapon(not the rifel) is in the middle of the screen

3. the rift demo crashes when I try to login it only works when I have my Oculus software running in the background but then this happens
I have no idea about oculus software working with Em8er :confused:
I dont think it should work with oculus software / in vr
Hi @Nytrouz I replied to you in the Discord. And I apologize, no one was available to help at the time you asked...

1) When the demo shows you spawning under the map, this usually means the server has crashed. I can confirm at this time the EU server is down. Grummz has already stopped by the Discord (about 25 minutes ago) and said they will reboot the servers.

2) This is a known issue with the plasma cannon weapon. I believe it was reported in the previous demo's thread but it's good to have it here again as well, in case the Dev Team missed it. :cool:

3) It's been stated previously that the Unreal Engine has VR enabled by default and the Dev Team forgot to disable it. It's possible with this build, it was not disabled.

As for whether there is support for VR in Em-8ER ...
On November 16, 2019 from Ronyn:
At this time, there are no plans for VR in Em-8ER. HOWEVER, we never know what may happen down the road someday after launch.
 

disco#6157

Omega Founder
Sep 11, 2020
3
6
3
#31
Fellow game dev here, and i played firefall PVP for 600+ hours or so.

-----------------------------------------
Movement doesn't feel as good as firefall.

---
Telegraphing Movement: Firefall had boosters coming from your feet and that gave a better sensation of direction/control while the jets on your back feel vague and feel directionless. I immediately missed the jets on my feet and wished there were some more visible indications as to which way i was shifting my movement. Make sure how a player is moving and why a player is moving is easily telegraphed to a player. Here when you're hovering in midair it's kinda vague and vague feels bad.

---
Skill Based Movement: From a PVP standpoint i wouldn't play any kind of PVP arena with movement like this. Not because it's bad, but it's just not suitable for players who enjoy skill based movement systems. There's a thousand games with movement that feels kinda weighty and floaty and unresponsive and this is too similar. But luckily this is pretty easy to fix with the systems you have in place.

---
Movement 1: Emergent or Skill based Movement :
A good example is maybe I've discovered your first emergent-movement mechanic. Where you hit spacebar, then hit spacebar again and quickly hit shift and aim towards the ground. This results in a player more or less immediately transitioning from running to sliding, and sometimes this works really well and others its got no momentum at all. But it's fun to do and it's a natural kind of movement mechanic that immediately adds depth to how a player can move around the world.

Now if you try that yourself, and then imagine that every time you did it maybe your jets on your back gave you a boost. Suddenly you have a pretty cool form of movement that is skill based. But don't just make it an automatic thing, then its bad.

---
Movement 2: Shift key should be boost:

The way i would embrace this is rethink what you've got hotkeys bound to and how you're using this jet engine strapped to a player's back.

You have shift, which makes a player run faster, and also uses your glider which isn't really a boost because your jetpack also has a boost with double tap. This is already confusing and really "Make player go faster" should be on the same key and "Put player in a new movement mode" should be on a separate key.

I would personally tie shift to firing your jets heavily backwards. Like spacebar but for forward movement. Make your character use fuel to sprint faster, allow you to use fuel to slide up hills instead of only down. Allow fuel use even in midair with spacebar to move faster in a direction you're strafing.

Then the emergent movement becomes jumping once, then shifting to boost and slide along the ground. This would be a lot of fun, a very unique form of movement (reminds me of vanquish which was really fun movement) and since you can't really shoot while sliding its a proper tactical choice.



----
Movement 3: Your jetpack is simultaneously too powerful and too slow:

You had ... an embarrassingly large number of forum threads about jetpack speeds in firefall, and eventually jetpacks were made much faster, and given less fuel to compensate which made for a far better pvp experience.

I know your former Red5 devs know this and remember it well. But i will bring up something you may not have realized. Jetpacks+Glider systems being this strong completely trivialize your game design. Players simply don't have to give the slightest care in the world about the world you design for them, similar to the massively destructive impact flying mounts in WOW had on the playerbase.

I would recommend less fuel in general just so that your world design matters, and imo adding a boost button (players can use 2x or maybe 2.5x fuel to jetpack 2x faster) would make it feel less floaty and slow when you're trying to jetpack.

---
Movement 4: The glider sucks:

I just press shift and i get a boost and fly in a direction infinitely with no player input and magical forward thrust? There's no player interaction and it's really boring to fly.

Remove the boost, remove the magical thrust. Then tie it to the previously mentioned boost key into allowing a player to use their own fuel to gain forward momentum with it.

Which immediately puts a logical understandable limitation on the glider and means you don't have to just jetpack upwards and then deploy it. You can use that fuel to move with it.


---

Guns: Recoil:

Screen shake hurts my soul, that is all.

I suppose experienced players might also be a little frustrated that screen shake + recoil in opposite directions of one another makes it extremely difficult to compensate for recoil (i.e similar to counter strike). But i would ignore them completely.

You should really be designing the weapon recoil systems from the ground up to prevent hacking players. Hackers are such a massive negative influence in every game nowdays and anticheat is effectively useless if your recoil design is bad.

Your recoil patterns have a pretty consistent upwards trajectory per bullet (until later in the clip). Which means a simple c++ script can reduce the recoil a player experiences by 40-50%. Careful of designing too many weapons platforms like this, or you won't be able to control the cheaters and cheating will be required to compete (I.E Rust, or R6: Siege).



---

I know the game development process well, and i know that sometimes just reading what someone else writes gives me great ideas to put into action. So hopefully this spurs some useful thoughts.
 
Nov 13, 2018
740
1,639
93
Massachusetts
#32
Fellow game dev here, and i played firefall PVP for 600+ hours or so.

-----------------------------------------
Movement doesn't feel as good as firefall.

---
Telegraphing Movement: Firefall had boosters coming from your feet and that gave a better sensation of direction/control while the jets on your back feel vague and feel directionless. I immediately missed the jets on my feet and wished there were some more visible indications as to which way i was shifting my movement. Make sure how a player is moving and why a player is moving is easily telegraphed to a player. Here when you're hovering in midair it's kinda vague and vague feels bad.

---
Skill Based Movement: From a PVP standpoint i wouldn't play any kind of PVP arena with movement like this. Not because it's bad, but it's just not suitable for players who enjoy skill based movement systems. There's a thousand games with movement that feels kinda weighty and floaty and unresponsive and this is too similar. But luckily this is pretty easy to fix with the systems you have in place.

---
Movement 1: Emergent or Skill based Movement :
A good example is maybe I've discovered your first emergent-movement mechanic. Where you hit spacebar, then hit spacebar again and quickly hit shift and aim towards the ground. This results in a player more or less immediately transitioning from running to sliding, and sometimes this works really well and others its got no momentum at all. But it's fun to do and it's a natural kind of movement mechanic that immediately adds depth to how a player can move around the world.

Now if you try that yourself, and then imagine that every time you did it maybe your jets on your back gave you a boost. Suddenly you have a pretty cool form of movement that is skill based. But don't just make it an automatic thing, then its bad.

---
Movement 2: Shift key should be boost:

The way i would embrace this is rethink what you've got hotkeys bound to and how you're using this jet engine strapped to a player's back.

You have shift, which makes a player run faster, and also uses your glider which isn't really a boost because your jetpack also has a boost with double tap. This is already confusing and really "Make player go faster" should be on the same key and "Put player in a new movement mode" should be on a separate key.

I would personally tie shift to firing your jets heavily backwards. Like spacebar but for forward movement. Make your character use fuel to sprint faster, allow you to use fuel to slide up hills instead of only down. Allow fuel use even in midair with spacebar to move faster in a direction you're strafing.

Then the emergent movement becomes jumping once, then shifting to boost and slide along the ground. This would be a lot of fun, a very unique form of movement (reminds me of vanquish which was really fun movement) and since you can't really shoot while sliding its a proper tactical choice.



----
Movement 3: Your jetpack is simultaneously too powerful and too slow:

You had ... an embarrassingly large number of forum threads about jetpack speeds in firefall, and eventually jetpacks were made much faster, and given less fuel to compensate which made for a far better pvp experience.

I know your former Red5 devs know this and remember it well. But i will bring up something you may not have realized. Jetpacks+Glider systems being this strong completely trivialize your game design. Players simply don't have to give the slightest care in the world about the world you design for them, similar to the massively destructive impact flying mounts in WOW had on the playerbase.

I would recommend less fuel in general just so that your world design matters, and imo adding a boost button (players can use 2x or maybe 2.5x fuel to jetpack 2x faster) would make it feel less floaty and slow when you're trying to jetpack.

---
Movement 4: The glider sucks:

I just press shift and i get a boost and fly in a direction infinitely with no player input and magical forward thrust? There's no player interaction and it's really boring to fly.

Remove the boost, remove the magical thrust. Then tie it to the previously mentioned boost key into allowing a player to use their own fuel to gain forward momentum with it.

Which immediately puts a logical understandable limitation on the glider and means you don't have to just jetpack upwards and then deploy it. You can use that fuel to move with it.


---

Guns: Recoil:

Screen shake hurts my soul, that is all.

I suppose experienced players might also be a little frustrated that screen shake + recoil in opposite directions of one another makes it extremely difficult to compensate for recoil (i.e similar to counter strike). But i would ignore them completely.

You should really be designing the weapon recoil systems from the ground up to prevent hacking players. Hackers are such a massive negative influence in every game nowdays and anticheat is effectively useless if your recoil design is bad.

Your recoil patterns have a pretty consistent upwards trajectory per bullet (until later in the clip). Which means a simple c++ script can reduce the recoil a player experiences by 40-50%. Careful of designing too many weapons platforms like this, or you won't be able to control the cheaters and cheating will be required to compete (I.E Rust, or R6: Siege).



---

I know the game development process well, and i know that sometimes just reading what someone else writes gives me great ideas to put into action. So hopefully this spurs some useful thoughts.
Nice!
Although Em8er is still VERY early in development I agree with your assessment of movement, especially side to side and boosting. FF's movement, on the ground and especially in the air was one of the magic ingredients that kept me playing.
I'm hoping the Devs continue to tweak movement in Em8er to that old FF feeling.
Also just a reminder that even though we can fight other players in this Demo, Em8er has no plans for PvP. Every decision is geared towards PvE.
Great in depth feedback though!
 

disco#6157

Omega Founder
Sep 11, 2020
3
6
3
#33
Also just a reminder that even though we can fight other players in this Demo, Em8er has no plans for PvP. Every decision is geared towards PvE.
You could do that in 2013 when the market was different, but the biggest drivers in the playerbase adoption market right now are twitch/youtube streamers.

These streamers only play PVP games, and the audiences only want to see PVP because the emotional connection between the streamer you like, displaying dominance over some other poor human being on the internet is marketing gold.

A company cannot even begin to match the free advertising your players will willingly stream for you constantly if you have some kind of PVP or competitive element in your platform.

Sure the money looks like it comes from the PVE players who hate pvp, but the marketing and constant flow of free advertising and attention always comes from PVP. It's a careful two part system.


I always figured one of firefall's biggest mistakes was killing the entire streaming community by abandoning and eventually disabling the PVP gamemodes right as streaming was starting to become mainstream.

I think they always used to quote percentages, like "only 6% of our playerbase plays PVP" but that 6% was constantly hosting and streaming tournaments, posting pvp videos and generally streaming the game daily. I don't think anyone really understood what was lost there until much later when twitch became much bigger.
 
Sep 13, 2020
11
29
13
#34
I'm not sure if this is a known issue or what the status of this is, but the sensitivity settings for me are really wonky.

In third person, X sensitivity is significantly higher than Y sensitivity. I tried to compensate in settings and that was really a trip.

In first person, everything is MUCH more sensitive, and this time Y is more sensitive than X sensitivity. So I revised the settings once again because I found it difficult to aim in first person, then switched back to third person and could barely move until I readjusted my settings again.

Also, I experienced sensitivity fluctuations in different areas of the map. Sometimes the sensitivity would just drop. I'm not sure if it's a thing with my mouse or a thing with the game.

Edit: corrected a misplaced word
 
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