In-game monetization

EricAZ4

Firstclaimer
Jul 26, 2016
22
22
3
Alberta, Canada
#1
This is a question that I haven't seen come up but maybe I was not looking hard enough :)

How will Ember handle in-game currency?
Will you be able to trade with other players on a market?
Well you be able to be a "free to play" player after or buy the game up front and buy things in the costmedic market with the money you make in game or will you need to spend really money for that stuff?
 
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Ronyn

Commander
Staff member
Community Manager
Director of Marketing and Community
Jul 26, 2016
724
2,706
93
#2
So far all that has been officially revealed is-
Business Model - Pay once, no subscription
Should we reach the final game creation and shipping moment, the game will be sold at the higher end of Indie games. Pay once, no subscription fee. Pay for episodic expansions. In-game store with cosmetics and convenience, but not power.
 

EvilKitten

Well-Known Member
Ark Liege
Jul 26, 2016
777
1,557
93
#5
One thing I really really really really really really hope never see's the light of day in Ember is the monetization of convenience. In order to monetize it, you have to make your core game *inconvenient*. In other words, once you've bought the game, you now have to pay to have fun. This is perhaps one of the biggest reasons why I loath the old Free to Play model and wish it a swift and very painful death. Sell a product, do NOT sell time.
 

NitroMidgets

Tsi-Hu Hunter
Jul 27, 2016
590
474
63
Dupont, WA
#6
Yeah, the convenience thing was bullshit in Fireturd. Limiting our ability to process resources, making crafting times extra long and so on just so that we were "encouraged" to pay to bypass their intentionally built walls of bullshit in order to progress at a reasonable rate.
It ended up being that unless you wanted to pay you simply logged in for the dailies and to empty and restart whatever it is you wanted to do and then logged out. If you already had more then enough resources there was no reason to continue building a stockpile of them.

A resource check/gate is one thing but then to add a Time Gate, that is just wrong.
 

EricAZ4

Firstclaimer
Jul 26, 2016
22
22
3
Alberta, Canada
#7
So far all that has been officially revealed is-
Business Model - Pay once, no subscription
Should we reach the final game creation and shipping moment, the game will be sold at the higher end of Indie games. Pay once, no subscription fee. Pay for episodic expansions. In-game store with cosmetics and convenience, but not power.
OK
One thing I really really really really really really hope never see's the light of day in Ember is the monetization of convenience. In order to monetize it, you have to make your core game *inconvenient*. In other words, once you've bought the game, you now have to pay to have fun. This is perhaps one of the biggest reasons why I loath the old Free to Play model and wish it a swift and very painful death. Sell a product, do NOT sell time.
Yes I do not like to have to pay for everything or even to have an option to do so it let's you skip game play with spending money (think of warframe you can buy any thing and every thing with real money) i have a friend that lives in Asia and you make about $90-120 a month! So he did a really good job of getting things for free in firefall, if he played Ember would he be able to do the same?
 

Daynen

Active Member
Aug 3, 2016
184
246
43
#8
One crucial business mistake I see many games making nowadays is a very specific thing that isn't a bad thing at first glance but is ultimately cancerous to any game's life cycle:

DO NOT ALLOW PLAYERS TO SKIP CONTENT FOR MONEY.

Read that sentence again--aloud. I don't care who's listening in; do it. It's that important.

Let me demonstrate an example of this mistake: World of Warcraft now allows players to buy an instant level up item to jump to level 100 (if I'm not mistaken; I haven't cared to look of late.) This means they instantly skip 99% of the game's content--vanilla, burning crusade, lich king, cataclysm, pandaria...all of it. It's meaningless and unnecessary to them now. This single, simple, subtle mistake has completely obviated almost a DECADE's worth of art, programming, encounter design and storytelling, robbing players of any chance of experiencing the things that ACTUALLY drew people into the Warcraft universe, just so they can "skip to the endgame." Notice how WoW's subscriber base is shrinking? It's because they're plowing through content faster than ever before due to level skips. The design of the game is a big culprit in this, but that's another discussion entirely.

I'll say it again, just because I know it hasn't burned into anyone's eyes yet:

DO NOT ALLOW PLAYERS TO SKIP CONTENT FOR MONEY.

Doing so is nothing more than an admission that you don't care about your work and are ready to simply throw away what you've built in order to cram people into the last 1% of your game. The problem with this is that they then finish the game faster and get bored faster. What do bored players do? They find ways to entertain themselves or move on. This then forces the game to seek new players faster, requiring more expensive advertising, promotions, sales, and -GASP!- more content skips to get them caught up. It's an insidious, inexorable cycle that I've seen destroy games--or at the very least, relegate them to some obscure corner of the web that kids are told to avoid like crime alley.

This can be especially devastating to a subscription based game, since once a player is 'done' he stops paying. Some say retail games care a bit less about this, since the upfront cost is already in the bank, but they still have to move units and that requires new players too. Content skips only hasten the process.

Not only is this foolish from a developer's perspective--since it shows no appreciation for your work, which is now disposable and needs to be recycled ad nauseum for little to no gain--and from a publisher's--since it shortens the profitable lifespan of a game into small bursts that don't stand the test of time--but it's also foolish for a player to take part because, at least in my mind, if you pay for a game, then pay to skip most of it, you have now paid FAR more than the real value of the game to get FAR LESS GAME. If a game promises two hundred hours of fun and you pay to skip 199 of them, what are you paying for???

Frankly, if a game is of a mind to let players skip most of it just to "catch up" then what they're really saying is they don't want people going through the rest of the game--they just want you to start raiding, or PVPing, or...whatever their "endgame" is called. Seems to me they should be charging LESS and instead locking such players out of the rest of the game, since the player isn't getting their money's worth by skipping the game and won't miss the locked parts anyway.

Would you have agreed to pay, say, $5 a month for WoW if the only thing you could do was PVP? My money says a great many people would.
 

EvilKitten

Well-Known Member
Ark Liege
Jul 26, 2016
777
1,557
93
#9
Yeah, the convenience thing was bullshit in Fireturd. Limiting our ability to process resources, making crafting times extra long and so on just so that we were "encouraged" to pay to bypass their intentionally built walls of bullshit in order to progress at a reasonable rate.
It ended up being that unless you wanted to pay you simply logged in for the dailies and to empty and restart whatever it is you wanted to do and then logged out. If you already had more then enough resources there was no reason to continue building a stockpile of them.

A resource check/gate is one thing but then to add a Time Gate, that is just wrong.
Yes I do not like to have to pay for everything or even to have an option to do so it let's you skip game play with spending money (think of warframe you can buy any thing and every thing with real money) i have a friend that lives in Asia and you make about $90-120 a month! So he did a really good job of getting things for free in firefall, if he played Ember would he be able to do the same?
It isn't just that buying convenience is a time gate. You can actually use selling convenience to create paid content in a F2P model. For example:

Say that your Mech has 120 HP, and your mech regenerates Hp at 1 HP per minute, or you can choose to insta repair (convenience) for 1 dollar an HP. That means if your mech gets destroyed it will take you 120 minutes, or 2 hours to make a full repair.

Now lets host an event with really nice game changing rewards. Said event consists of 5 different encounters. In order to complete the event successfully and receive your reward you must finish all 5 encounters in 4 hours.

Design the encounters so that each one is guaranteed to incur at least 90 points of damage each no matter what defenses or skill the player brings to the table. 90 x 5 = 450 damage minimum for the event

Given that the player starts with 120 HP, and can repair from completely dead to full in 2 hours that means that the player can mathematically (not counting any time utilized to actually participate in the event) throw 360 HP total at said event. Since the minimum damage they would incur is 450, that means that the event cannot possibly be finished without spending at minimum 90 dollars to complete the event, also again assuming that each event takes 0 minutes to complete. Each minute spent actually playing the content costs you another dollar because of lost repair time.

And this is done purely by selling "convenience". Oh and by the way, if you don't get the event reward you can consider your account fairly useless moving forward.

(btw, in case you are curious this is done in a real game that I quit playing shortly before Ember website went up)
 
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EricAZ4

Firstclaimer
Jul 26, 2016
22
22
3
Alberta, Canada
#10
It isn't just that buying convenience is a time gate. You can actually use selling convenience to create paid content in a F2P model. For example:

Say that your Mech has 120 HP, and your mech regenerates Hp at 1 HP per minute, or you can choose to insta repair (convenience) for 1 dollar an HP. That means if your mech gets destroyed it will take you 120 minutes, or 2 hours to make a full repair.

Now lets host an event with really nice game changing rewards. Said event consists of 5 different encounters. In order to complete the event successfully and receive your reward you must finish all 5 encounters in 4 hours.

Design the encounters so that each one is guaranteed to incur at least 90 points of damage each no matter what defenses or skill the player brings to the table. 90 x 5 = 450 damage minimum for the event

Given that the player starts with 120 HP, and can repair from completely dead to full in 2 hours that means that the player can mathematically (not counting any time utilized to actually participate in the event) throw 360 HP total at said event. Since the minimum damage they would incur is 450, that means that the event cannot possibly be finished without spending at minimum 90 dollars to complete the event, also again assuming that each event takes 0 minutes to complete. Each minute spent actually playing the content costs you another dollar because of lost repair time.

And this is done purely by selling "convenience". Oh and by the way, if you don't get the event reward you can consider your account fairly useless moving forward.

(btw, in case you are curious this is done in a real game that I quit playing shortly before Ember website went up)
That is In a lot of mobile games as well!

The mobile market Is dirty!