Importance of Currency 'fillers'

[Silv3r Shadow]

Before we discuss, if I want to troll I wouldn't do it in this form.

Currency Sinkholes, Tax and inflation.

Not gonna cherry coat it and may be out there, but, there has to, and will be currency fillers.

I know, I know, but silv3r why? Trust me, I hate tax too, I made a large fortune out of trade in firefall. But, They are actually a good thing for the health of the game.

The game will eventually have an overflow of currency like most mmo, or online games. Unless there are currency fillers.

(I think there is an extra credits video around for it somewhere about this topic)

Currency 'filling' needs to be done correctly and is an unrated topic. Many games resolve this with pay to win and throttling economy's, but we don't want ember to be a pay to win game (like a generic mmo or moba that dies in a year).

May be against the grain but there should be around a 2% or so tax on market trades. 2% is a reasonable amount anything greater than 4% is milking the economy.
Market tax should not be a main way, but the lowest form of currency filling. A low market trade tax will allow newer players to trade without hurting/punishing them.

It also is a fact that players will have an overflow of currency, but how can there not be a continuous inflation in prices?
This may not be 'the only' or 'only' answer: Ember is based around large fights, mechs, bases etc, that in mind... (apart from the individual/player) guilds, guild perks, bases are where currency and resources could go. Not saying it should be expensive for bases but for guild purchases.


Referring to a recent post of mine in another thread regarding achievement based perks...

Buffs can be pretty 1 sided in games, but there should be buffs relating to what you are doing or have achieved for example...

Personal buff like Lucas Arts SWBF2, have your own buffs that only affect you.

Relating to ember, once you achieve a state of an achievement you'll retain that buff like a rank. Reference.. Check it out:

http://battlefront.wikia.com/wiki/Awards


I dont like guild exclusive buffs however, a stackable Aura buff 'may' help this topic.

But, I do believe there should be guild achievement based rewards. Refering to this link:

https://wiki.plarium.com/index.php?title=TD_Clan_Achievement

The buffs should not be giant buffs.


Adding to this, personal and guild buffs

Have categories like general, combat, economy etc. Both share some of the same perks, guild achievement perks are a lot harder to obtain though, eg: (keep in mind they are both achievement based)


Economy - Refinery speed:

Personal: Rank 1: +10%

Guild: Rank 1: +12%


From the guild your personal buff will be overided adding an extra 2% as a bonus to guild teamwork from an achievement reward vice verca (whatever is the highest) eg:

guild refine 1,000/+ azurite 10,000 times.



Rewards at max rank:


Economy - Refinery speed:

Personal: Rank 10 (Max): +60%

Guild: Rank 10 (Max): +85%

(stats variable dont freak out lol)


IMO this is a fair way to reward an indervidial solo player and guilds.

Noting that guild achievements are way harder to obtain and adds guild loyalty than 'clan hoppers'.


Hope this can help

not forcing players to join guilds, but guild upgrades from player donations to the upgrade or bank (rewarding the player for donating) and increasing guild bank. Guild bank can buy many things, etc... But back to the main topic... Obviously there will be ways to spend your cash and resources, but you'd want to spend your hard earned res/cash on yourself, your guild, bases rather than 'the system'.

A topic to be discussed before core systems are implemented.

Love to hear opinions, and if you agree/disagree ^.^

 

[Drakin5]

What kind of currency are we talking here and should be used for currency filling, standard(crystite or whatever the equivalent of Em8er), premium (the one you have to pay with $$$) or both?

On a side note, will there be multiple forms of standard currency but differs on how you get them?

 

[Pandagnome]

speaking of tax there are things that are nicely done in warframe it does encourage people to take note on special npc that provide unique items than pay 1 million tax for the same item when trading with other folks :O
Though if those people have the credits to do so they can and cannot wait for the npc to return.

I think we could call the currency Emlars [Em8er + dollars] hmm or for sepcial tokens perhaps

 

[Omnires]

First off here is the Extra Credit videos.

I'm going to be showing my age here a bit. But in the early days of MMOs one of the things that stopped prices from getting out of hand was the tradesmen guilds. Those are guilds who main focus is on trading and crafting. To make the most money possible the tradesmen guilds would also price things reasonably to appeal to the most people possible. Taking into account things like is the item something that is crafted or something that is dropped, is it something that is easy to come by / craft or do you need to hunt bosses for it, and so on. Even those they was out to make money there was code in tradesmen guilds to never overprice things. Because of this if anyone wanted to do trading they had to match or better the stander price the guilds have set. And having a good reliable source for things posted by trusted people/guilds meant that everyone had to think more mindfully about how they are setting the prices on things they want to sell. Because even a new player could see that just based on the average price people are buying something at, that maybe they want to also try and match that price or maybe not buy that weapon posted at 99999 because it is a junk weapon that someone is hoping a newbie would buy.

The thing is, it is rare to see tradesmen guilds in games now. So it is up to the devs to help balance things out by doing things like setting baseline prices for everything in the game that can be traded or sold. And also letting players see the stock market inside the game so they can see how the prices of things gone up and down over time and what is the average price most people buy them at. There was one game I remember playing where if you looked up an item in the auction house you was also given the option to look at a chart showing you stock of that item going back even years. I believe the more info you give players about baseline cost of things and at what rate they tend to sell for it'll stop most games from going into hyperinflation.

 

[Mahdi]

And the people with that guild mindset also don't try to set a standard anymore, they just up the price to someone else's greediness. Em-8ER will have a storm here and there bit i do believe this community won't fall to normal mmo marketing.

 

[Silv3r Shadow]

Good suggestions all around. Gotta have a stock chart with the prices as suggested.
To help with the in game mindset, can also gave propaganda in the market place and market place window promoting fair trade.

Another idea is a safeguard system, but that can be irritating if you want to sell items very cheaply than the set threshold.
Warfame does a good job with the Tax as meantioned, the tax price for equipment scales to the tiers, comparing common to primed mods. (Also riven mods)

Primed and riven mods are great sinkers. Mainly more of the endgame content mods which are worth getting and are very expensive to buy and upgrade to max level. And those mods wont become redundant in a years time or after the next big patch. Just that player to player trade can be annoying though cause of the slow process.

 

[Daynen]

Inflation in an MMO occurs for a simple reason: open economy. By "open" I mean more currency is injected into it by the players without a finite limit. How? It's right under your nose. Kill mob, money spawns on his corpse, loot. Thus the economy inflates. That money comes out of nowhere and is completely unlimited in supply, so long as people are camping spawns, doing quests, raiding, etc.

So long as money can appear out of thin air, inflation is inevitable. So long as players aren't challenged to keep their income stream above their operating costs, hyperinflation is only a matter of time. Chroincles of Elyria attempts to solve this problem by making all resources procedurally generated and beholden to actual reproductive rules, i.e. if you hunt a species of animal to extinction, it's gone. There are no "spawn points." This keeps every resource valuable based on it's own merits and not based on how fast one can farm a camp.

Perhaps it's too early or too late, but maybe Ember could learn a thing or two...

 

[Drakin5]

Taxation is one form or method to control inflation. What I propose is another form of inflation control. During times of war, (well, obviously this is going to be a massive war game) governments tend to issue war bonds as a form of security to their budget.

What if a portion of what you spend in npc vendors actually contributes to the effectiveness of the war effort? Examples are but not limited to: decreased repair/maintenance and ammunition costs, free medkits with varying amount or temporary access to higher level gear than your own. This however relies on and if anyone is willing to buy from local shops and not going around killing kaijus/tsi-hus for a quick ATM withdrawal.

 

[Omnires]

Here is a few examples from some games I have played over my many years in how worked around inflation in their games.

1. Having supply and demand effect NPC shops. If the NPCs want or need something they will pay for it. But the price they'll pay for something will go up and down based on supply and demand. In games this stopped people from flooding the market because the more of that item is sold to NPCs the more the price of it drops. Even going down to zero. This because the NPCs no longer want or need that item.
   1. This idea seems to work better where different towns, outposts, areas, maps all have different wants and needs.
      1. Example: People in a desert town need things like fruits to eat and other things that are hard to come by in the area. Meanwhile people in a port town by a lake need more metals and other materials not commonly found in that area. Meaning the players can make a bit of extra money by only trading what the NPCs what want and need only when their supply gets low.
      2. Some times there is also an option for the players to take on a job / mission to help make share a shipment gets to where it needs to go. Like protecting a convoy of metals being shipped from the desert town to the port town.
2. Having a working ecosystem in the game. This one is a bit harder to explain. So I think I'll just post this tutorial video from the game Wakfu to make things easy.
   2. Also in some games politics also play a part in the economy of the game.
      
3. Another much more rare option to do is to have money be a limited resource. There is only so much gold and other things to go around. So players get by using a barter system. Because there is not really any money in the game and no real need for it, players will just trade items for items or trade items for work.
   1. Example: one player might only trade another player a sword if they trade them some armor or if they help them kill a boss.

 

[Torgue_Joey]

NOT SURE IF WE ACTUALLY NEED "CURRENCY".

WE NEED RESOURCES. EVERYTHING IS CRAFT ABLE.

YOU TOO LAZY TO CRAFT YERSELF ONE. GIMME THE RESOURCES + 30% AND I'LL BUILD YOU THE MOST BADASS FRAME OF YOUR LIKING. OR ATLEAST AN AWESOME GUN.

HEY, WHERE YA GOING? 'DIS A TORGUE WEAPON.
YA' LL BETTER F*CKING LOVE MY GUNZ.

 

[Ammara]

Craft me FireFall v0.9 and I'll pay you 30% of what The9 had spent to own Red5..

Honestly though, Torgue weapons are beyond legendary. They're in fact legit hacks. Aim one, pull the trigger and enjoy going momentarily blind as the BOOOOM melts half of the planet... The resources they require are too much already. Sugar you must reduce that 30% or you might not secure a deal before your bills outboom you~

 

[Drakin5]

If Em8er forgoes the use of fiat money, some game changing mechanics could be in effect:

1. Logistics is just as important as fighting on the front lines.
-Why? Well those friendly freighters and haulers carrying your precious supplies crafted by someone are bound to get targeted by the enemy. Even if those cargo doesn't have monetary value, they do have function value i.e. a commodity is sought after because of its many uses not because they are just for luxury. Ever wondered why pirates during the 17th century often plunder ships carrying food, rope, gunpowder, and wood except the ones carrying gold or silver?

2. Your T.H.M.P.R. would most likely get targeted by the enemy but not for reasons you'd expect.
-Your T.H.M.P.R isn't some kind of 20 ton mining machine that angers the nearby xenos while you sit back and protect it from them. Oh no, it's more than that. Once those kaijus/tsi-hus noticed that the nearby wildlife is acting cupcake, they would find the source of the commotion. You'd normally think that once they find you, the tsi-hus would destroy your T.H.M.P.R. just for the lulz of it right? Wrong. They would cut your precious drill out and take what's inside of what your T.H.M.P.R just recently extracted. Maybe those tsi-hus doesn't have the technology to build their own T.H.M.P.Rs so they resorted to piracy to get what they needed.

3. Every so often, some of your fellow reapers or you are being or will be ambushed and the effects of dying from could be frustrating for you.
-It's common for any role playing game to kill monsters and take their loot but what would happen if the tables were turned against you? That's right, your fellow reapers and you are walking, talking, breathing piñatas where the tsi-hus are the ones carrying baseball bats but not blindfolded. If you somehow died from ambushes then respawned later, you could be wondering what's missing in your inventory. Chances are, your Bloodsoaked Rocket Launcher of Thunder+10 is missing...

4. Stolen ores, equipment pieces and resources can be liberated from the enemy.
-Ok so the kaijus/tsi-hus just went full Blackbeard on you and plundered your base/T.H.M.P.R/corpse for loot, what do you do? Well, try to get your stuff back from them while you still can. In fact, you could do the same to them. You might even get yourself a shiny tsi-hu gun or armor piece. If you somehow looted player equipment, don't be a finders keepers.

5. Mined ores and their refined ones are used as currency instead.
-So there would be no crystite, emlars or whatever you want to call it to buy something from the shops but you have a lot of rocks with your name on every one, what do you want to do with them? Trade them of course. If you want to barter for a shiny new gun for metal ores of different elements, you can do so. However, if you can refine them to a purity standard say 80%, it could be worth a lot of value to your seller/auction house. You'd be hearing in trade chat that someone is willing to trade a machine gun for your 80% purity ingot.

 

[Omnires]

That is why in my post I said

Having a working ecosystem in the game. This one is a bit harder to explain. So I think I'll just post this tutorial video from the game Wakfu to make things easy.

Also in some games politics also play a part in the economy of the game.

Because you don't need money in games if you having things like an ecosystem where resources mean everything.

Also I forgot to give an example of a commerce system in games. I'll just use the one from Mabinogi.

• Commerce is a special system that allows players to trade goods for money.
• Within or around every town, there is a Trading Post. You can elect to participate in trading by buying goods from these Posts and carrying them to the Posts in other towns to sell for a profit.
  • The trading goods are only meant to be used for commerce and cannot be used outside of the system.
• Trades use Ducats instead of Gold.
  
• Different towns give a different sales price for each item based on demand. Generally, the farther you go, the better the profit.
  • Selling prices for goods are weighted depending on the distance of the originating outpost. The farther the distance, the more weight on (the higher the) selling price.
  • The price changes similar to Farming system. If people sell certain products to a certain city, the prices will drop.
• You can only lose a maximum of 25% of your cargo load. This is shared through any method that can potentially make you lose cargo; be it through bandits, disconnects, logging off, or changing channels.
• As you walk through Dangerous Zones, outside of towns, Bandits may attack.

TLR

 

[Drakin5]

The thing is, in Wakfu you play an active role in the ecosystem and managing it properly. In Em8er however, you're probably busy shooting, mining or both. The game however has a terraforming feature so I think players have a piece of terraformed land to sustain. As far as managing your piece of terraformed land, you're probably going to pay for npc hirelings with ores while you're away doing reaper stuff.

I kinda like where the idea is going...

 

[Daynen]

A world where the NPC's and environment respond to the influx and outflux of goods and resources by adjusting the prices for supply and demand is a big start; it's a simple thing missing from almost all other MMO-style games. An ecosystem would definitely slap some incentives on careful harvesting and add some weight to our macro-level choices.

All in all, all of these ideas, in the proper form, would lead strong reactivity and consequences to the game, preventing it from becoming just another mindless grind. Anything that leads the game away from THAT dystopian future is worth exploring.

 

[Torgue_Joey]

KEEP IN MIND. 'DIS NOT SOME SURVIVAL STIMULATOR CRAP.
'DIS A WAR GAME.
WITH EXPLOSION. DEATH. AND MORE EXPLOSION.