How many weapons can we have at once?

[EvilKitten]

@phoenix There are a couple reasons to have an integrated weapon system rather than a handheld weapon.

First off it is very inefficient. The weapon can be lost, more easily removed or taken away while in combat. It also makes it less efficient because you can't use your mech as easily to charge or reload your weapon. With an integrated weapon system you could store bullets in the arm and have a massive reservoir of bullets that cannot be taken away, removed, or otherwise hindered while having no significant reload issues. Or with an energy weapon it can be powered by the suit itself. With a stand alone weapon you will either need to have clips and an external ammo storage or you will need to plug the weapon into your suit or worse the weapon would have its own power source.

And then of course as said before with physical projectiles there is weapon climb when the barrel is not in line with the armature. Again it is far more efficient to remove weapon climb all together than it is to hold a separate weapon. Handheld weapons are designed to fit into a human hand which is why the grip is always below the barrel. That is the most ergonomic position but not the most efficient.

And lastly (for this response) a handheld weapon is limited in its ammo variety. In order to use multiple ammo types (altfire) you either need to switch out the magazine or have a separate system mounted on the gun (underbarrel grenade launcher) Again neither option is terribly efficient. With an integrated weapon you could easily have several different ammo feeds which could be switched between with the flick of a button or twist of a knob.

 

[Krhys]

Well, you could have small arms (assault rifles, SMGs, blasters, laser gunz, etc.) hand held to provide general 'run n gun' fire, with larger, heavier weapons mounted on the frame itself (e.g. a Big MacLargeHuge chaingun, beastly lasercannon, railgun for long distance sniping, micro-missile packs, etc. - similar to MechWarrior in a way, just a tad smaller).

 

[Omnires]

Has no one played the Armored Core series? It's a mech game series for those who haven't played it. It shows that there are plenty of ways to implement missile pods where they serve a purpose without them becoming the always preferable alternative to direct fire weapons.

I love the Armored Core games. It is one of the best mecha vs mecha combat game series out there. Because every type of weapon can be counted. Even missiles that lock-on on to targets can be dodged if your mecha has high speed and mobility. Even without high mobility you can use this like flares, decoys, radar jammers, or even just shot them out of the air with your anti-missile targeting computer.

The Omniframe has hands, and will hold its weapons. Things being contemplated but not decided:

1) How many weapons can you switch between (yes, pocket dimension hand-wave. yes, at least two weapons)
2) Will there be melee weapons?
3) Will the two shoulder mount canisters be weapon hardpoints on the frame for frame specific alt-fire or even abilities?

So, all I know for sure is that the Omniframe acts like a battleframe, in that it holds its weapons. Omniframe also has a clear shoulder mount system in the concept that we may or may not use for permanent shoulder mount accessories (could be weapons, could be abilities, etc.) Controls and the rest will be figured out later.

Please, let me be able to make boats as my alt frames. In mecha combat games the idea of making boats is a common one and is kind of fun. A "boat" is mecha designed and built about around one type of weapon. For example, missile boats are mecha that only using missiles, gun boats are mecha that only use one type of gun (rifles, machine guns, cannons, so on). As long as you give players lots of counter-play options you can let them go crazy with the mecha designs in weapon loadouts because everything can be blocked, dodged, and countered in some way.

 

[Vladplaya]

@phoenix There are a couple reasons to have an integrated weapon system rather than a handheld weapon.

First off it is very inefficient. The weapon can be lost, more easily removed or taken away while in combat. It also makes it less efficient because you can't use your mech as easily to charge or reload your weapon. With an integrated weapon system you could store bullets in the arm and have a massive reservoir of bullets that cannot be taken away, removed, or otherwise hindered while having no significant reload issues. Or with an energy weapon it can be powered by the suit itself. With a stand alone weapon you will either need to have clips and an external ammo storage or you will need to plug the weapon into your suit or worse the weapon would have its own power source.

And then of course as said before with physical projectiles there is weapon climb when the barrel is not in line with the armature. Again it is far more efficient to remove weapon climb all together than it is to hold a separate weapon. Handheld weapons are designed to fit into a human hand which is why the grip is always below the barrel. That is the most ergonomic position but not the most efficient.

And lastly (for this response) a handheld weapon is limited in its ammo variety. In order to use multiple ammo types (altfire) you either need to switch out the magazine or have a separate system mounted on the gun (underbarrel grenade launcher) Again neither option is terribly efficient. With an integrated weapon you could easily have several different ammo feeds which could be switched between with the flick of a button or twist of a knob.

I am sorry but most of your arguments for fixed weapon points are just wrong.

When a MECHA holding a weapon, it's not going to drop it by an accident, or loose it, or get it knocked out of the grip. It's not a person, it's a robotic grip holding a huge ass gun. If anything will knock the weapon out of that grip, it means the force would probably have been strong enough to damage the weapon and the mount if it was permanently attached to the frame.
Plus knocked out weapon can always be picked back up, no problems.

It makes no sense to have ammo stored in the arm of the weapon if its attached. That would increase the weight and give you no real advantages, other than actually making it more vulnerable.
Ammo can be covered on free weapon also, that's why even today we have magazines, or ammo cans that can be attached to the weapon. Or heck, have a belt fed system with ammo on your back. With stuff like that it makes no real difference if weapon is attached or separate, it's just a matter how you running the ammo and from where.

Weapon climb. There is actually as name for that, Recoil. The first thing that controls the recoil is caliber of a weapon and rate of fire. You can have a little pee shooter that has no recoil, or you can have huge cannon that shoots slower so recoil is not a real problem. But it doesn't even matter, because once again two mecha arms holding a weapon would actually absorb more recoil and stabilize weapon better than point fixed weapon system.
And then it doesn't even matter more because this is a shooter game, and you want to have recoil, because that is one of the variables that distinguishes and gives depth to different weapons.

Furthermore the best part about mecha holding weapon in its arms, is that you easily and quickly interchange weapons, equipment or anything you want, because you have arms, not some mounting attachment bracket that only works for certain weapons.

What you want is Mech Warrior Online vertical tank type of mecha, while Ember is aiming for having mecha type of frames with an emphasis on making them feel like characters, hence the arms and little armor.

Edit: correcting autocorrect...

 

[Omnires]

I think I made it clear that I'm on the side of both having hand-held weapons and mounted weapons at the same time. I've also played mecha games where the player can drop/throw away their hand-held and mounted weapons after they run out of ammo or become damaged, making the mecha lighter so they can do things like run, jump, and fly faster and longer as you drop things. Mind you, these are in games where it is possible to target the weapons of your enemy have to them break or knock them off. So it is not impossible to have robots and mechas drop weapons if the enemy shot them or melee them in right spot with enough force.

(Side note: One of the tactics used in this kind of games is to design a mecha with more weapons and armor than it needs, even to point of going over the mass limit of your arms and legs, know that you'll use all the ammo within a few seconds or have them shot off. Then you can use your movement speed to fight in the second phase of the fight after the volley is over and you dropped everything you don't need.)

Also if we can use a pocket dimension to store weapons, couldn't it also be used to store ammo too. All I have to do is have the loading chamber of the gun be linked to this pocket dimension so I can fire nonstop and never reload. Although to keep this from being OP, all you have to do is make it so weapons can do things like overheat so into a forced cool down state to protect itself. This would work with both energy weapons and solid ammo weapons.

As for the topic of things like aim and recoil. Remember many sci-fi and mecha stories solve this problem by having the iron sights/scope of the gun be replaced with a camera linked to targeting system and/or A.I. of the person's HUD or mecha. There making things likes hip fire and shooting behind your back possible as you see everything the gun is pointed at (Note, we having weapons like this in real life too.). This also helps with things like recoil because know when the weapon is out of line to hit the target. This not even counting that going by what kind of weapon it is, it will have things to reduce recoil built into the weapon itself. And going by the arms and systems being used on the mecha it'll also have things like shock absorbers and gyroscopic stability which will also help to limit or spot recoil from affecting your shots (Systems many modern war vehicles like battleships, fighter jets, attack helicopters, and tanks have on them.).

 

[phoenix]

@phoenix There are a couple reasons to have an integrated weapon system rather than a handheld weapon.

First off it is very inefficient. The weapon can be lost, more easily removed or taken away while in combat. It also makes it less efficient because you can't use your mech as easily to charge or reload your weapon. With an integrated weapon system you could store bullets in the arm and have a massive reservoir of bullets that cannot be taken away, removed, or otherwise hindered while having no significant reload issues. Or with an energy weapon it can be powered by the suit itself. With a stand alone weapon you will either need to have clips and an external ammo storage or you will need to plug the weapon into your suit or worse the weapon would have its own power source.

And then of course as said before with physical projectiles there is weapon climb when the barrel is not in line with the armature. Again it is far more efficient to remove weapon climb all together than it is to hold a separate weapon. Handheld weapons are designed to fit into a human hand which is why the grip is always below the barrel. That is the most ergonomic position but not the most efficient.

And lastly (for this response) a handheld weapon is limited in its ammo variety. In order to use multiple ammo types (altfire) you either need to switch out the magazine or have a separate system mounted on the gun (underbarrel grenade launcher) Again neither option is terribly efficient. With an integrated weapon you could easily have several different ammo feeds which could be switched between with the flick of a button or twist of a knob.

Yes But:

* you can use an external weapon as a melee weapon once you run out of ammo.
* having a weapon inside your arm compromises the structural integrity of the arm. If you shield a blow with your arm then the gun inside of it is damaged.
* firepower. the biggest of guns simply won't fit into an arm.
* uneven weight distribution. having one arm with a weapon inside of it shifts the center of mass of the whole meck.
* aim is steadier and you have less recoil with two hands holding a weapon then one hand supporting a shooting weapon inside of it.
* If the weapon overheats then nothing really happens besides you won't be able to shoot but if the weapon inside your arm overheats then it might damage surrounding equipment along with it.
*If for some reason your arm has a disturbance then it might affect the weapon inside of it.
*external weapons are easier to swap out.
*reloading isn't a problem as you can store ammunition inside the wrist of your supporting hand.

External weapons simply are better in conditions where versatility is key. having a weapon inside the arm means displacing or replacing equipment inside the arm itself making it weak.

 

[TankHunter678]

External weapons simply are better in conditions where versatility is key. having a weapon inside the arm means displacing or replacing equipment inside the arm itself making it weak.

Don't forget magazine explosions.

In Mechwarrior the CASE system was created to prevent such occurrences from instantly obliterating a mech. The CASE system is designed to contain and redirect the explosive force of the munitions outside and away from the mech. Sure the explosion will still cripple the mech, but it stands a better chance at being able to try to defend itself instead of having that gauss rifle in its arm blow up and cause the missiles stored in the side torso to also blow up and take the reactor with it.

 

[Omnires]

I just want to point this out. Just in for the people who never played any of the Armored Core games. Mind you this video is old and many other games in the series has come out.

 

[ChinoGreen]

Weapons are cool and all but what if Im having a real bad day or some Tsihu made a comment about my work ethic.

So of course i'd like to holster my weapon's and fisticuffs will ensue. Proper fisticuffs I say.

 

[Ronyn]

Weapons are cool and all but what if Im having a real bad day or some Tsihu made a comment about my work ethic.

So of course i'd like to holster my weapon's and fisticuffs will ensue. Proper fisticuffs I say.

 

[Omnires]

Weapons are cool and all but what if Im having a real bad day or some Tsihu made a comment about my work ethic.

So of course i'd like to holster my weapon's and fisticuffs will ensue. Proper fisticuffs I say.

lol, speaking of melee weapons. Did you know that every game From Software makes has a Moonlight Sword in it somewhere that players can use? And that the Moonlight Sword is always one of the most powerful melee weapons in their games. Everything from Armored Core to Dark Souls has that the Moonlight Sword in them. lol

Side note: The Moonlight Sword is a melee weapon that can also use range attacks as the doing power swings with it will make energy waves/beams of light fly out from the blade slashing things in its path.

 

[Pandagnome]

I want something like robocop has and on the other wrist some grappler to get closer like in bionic commando and POKE
then grapple away

(@ 1min 46) but alot longer

Raiden from mgs had these heel weapon to stomp and tap dance on peoples heads
maybe some sort of stomping weapon for those who love to come soaring from above and KAaPLOp

 

[Demigan]

My idea for weapons would be:

• 1 to 2 primaries
• 1 secondary
• 1 melee option
• multiple ability hardpoints
  • One-shot abilities like rocketpacks on your shoulders. You'll need to call in new ammo (and pay it's cost) to get a new set of rockets.
  • rechargeable abilities. Creating an energy grenade to launch during combat. Less damage than a one-shot but easier to use in the middle of a fight. Other abilities could be additional jets for speed-boosts/dodge maneuvers, modules that call turrets and shields down, shield generators, healing guns and whatever other abilities the game throws at us.

 

[Daynen]

I just want to point this out. Just in for the people who never played any of the Armored Core games. Mind you this video is old and many other games in the series has come out.

Yes. YESYESYESYES YAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSS!!!! ALL MY ARMORED CORE!

Ahem. Sorry. Good to meet a fellow Pilot. Ravens forever!